Lonliness Gets in the Way of Work

[CAM]

Excellent points, Indi. Very thought-provoking. I'll have to think about this a bit--an unconsidered response would be inappropriate. I have often thought about this issue but have never really considered it in terms of "getting" something from them. I've always thought of it in terms of the mutual benefit aspects. That being said, I will give your question serious thought.

Well, unfortunately, I've been kind of lax about actually picking...as I've said before, I've foolishly allowed them to pick me and pursue me. That's a big mistake. Mea maxima culpa.

But, generally speaking, they've been your garden variety over-sexed overly liberated misguided and indulged young American woman in medium sized city USA...that is to say, generally lacking in refinement. So, I've been very remiss.

The one woman I did feel quite deeply about was a European woman with traditional roots. I pursued her and she allowed me to pursue her--ladies, please take note of this last point: it is so much better for you (and for the guy) if you allow him to pursue you, to romance you, to flirt with you...American women seem to think that coming on like a ton of bricks and getting cozy beneath the covers is the way to catch a man.

The young American women (25-45), generally, are just so inadequate.... So, yes, I do find myself doing everything from cooking to dishes, which pisses me off and largely, at that point, I'm asking myself how I get out of their bear trap?

But ultimately it is my fault for assenting to date them when they aren't right for me--for all their inadequacies, it doesn't forgive my disingenuousness when I welcome their advances. But, again one gets lonely every few years and voila...mistakes are made.

At any rate, I think I addressed both of your points, but the really important point does cause me to do some deeper thinking.

[IndiReloaded]

Excellent points, Indi. Very thought-provoking. I'll have to think about this a bit--an unconsidered response would be inappropriate. I have often thought about this issue but have never really considered it in terms of "getting" something from them. I've always thought of it in terms of the mutual benefit aspects. That being said, I will give your question serious thought.

There's You, Me, and Us. The 'Us' part is born from both of you, like a child, a new entity that didn't exist before.

But that doesn't mean You & Me disappear. You & Me has wants and needs still after the birth of Us.

Think about it: without either You or Me, there can't *be* an Us. It dies without input from both. If I were less tired I could probably come up w/some erudite chemistry metaphor but I'm sure you get it.

I'm sure you have seen marriages where one person drowns themselves in their partner. You can see those train wrecks happening in slow motion. Its like watching someone suicide their soul and, usually, their partner loses respect for them as well.

There's no shame in 'getting' from your partner, so long as they 'get' too. Same goes for giving, tho gotta watch for that. Some folks are brainwashed into feeling okay about giving of themselves, but are afraid to ask for what they want. I personally think that a lot of marriage problems arise when partners (women, especially) don't know how to assertively get what they want w/o being aggressive. No negotiating skills. If I were you, I'd look for an intelligent, decent gal who comes from a reasonable sized family with siblings. She'll have had to learn to compromise.

[CAM]

There's You, Me, and Us. The 'Us' part is born from both of you, like a child, a new entity that didn't exist before.

But that doesn't mean You & Me disappear. You & Me has wants and needs still after the birth of Us.

Think about it: without either You or Me, there can't *be* an Us. It dies without input from both. If I were less tired I could probably come up w/some erudite chemistry metaphor but I'm sure you get it.

I'm sure you have seen marriages where one person drowns themselves in their partner. You can see those train wrecks happening in slow motion. Its like watching someone suicide their soul and, usually, their partner loses respect for them as well.

There's no shame in 'getting' from your partner, so long as they 'get' too. Same goes for giving, tho gotta watch for that. Some folks are brainwashed into feeling okay about giving of themselves, but are afraid to ask for what they want. I personally think that a lot of marriage problems arise when partners (women, especially) don't know how to assertively get what they want w/o being aggressive. No negotiating skills. If I were you, I'd look for an intelligent, decent gal who comes from a reasonable sized family with siblings. She'll have had to learn to compromise.

Thanks for the further explanation. And, it makes me wonder even more.

What I come up with is this: I don't need very much.
*I don't need the emotional support of a woman, largely because I've been raised to believe that men who need women emotionally are weak. I realize I can change that, but it is rather embedded. I suppose we all need emotional support at some point, but I'm not some kind of metro-sexual crybaby.

*I don't need a woman to run the house--got that under control.

*I don't need a woman financially--again, totally under control.

*I don't need a woman to be a mother replacement---I love my own mother but I wasn't raised to be dependent.

*I don't need a woman physically, for pleasure that is--or, at least, not very often

What do I need:
* I need someone to be an intellectual companion in the deepest sense--someone I can look up to and live up to. She might be smarter than me, which is totally fine with me, so long as it doesn't turn into a power game. Hopefully, she has other intellectual interests--it would make it more interesting to learn from each other rather than regurgitate the same stuff.

* I need someone with whom I can raise a child or children--that would mean that she's younger than me and mature and loving...and those three things in women younger than me...rare qualities in young women.

[CAM]

All that being said about "don't need"s...that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind sharing the responsibilities.

[Gigabitch]

This woman you describe- what would she want with an emotionally unavailable man such as yourself?

[CAM]

I don't know. There's a difference between being a cold bastard and being a man. I'm a man...not a ****ing wimp. Is that a bit clearer?

[Gigabitch]

I suppose, but if you want a high-quality woman, you're going to have to connect, and I get the feeling you might find that to be a little too intimate for your comfort.

[CAM]

I suppose, but if you want a high-quality woman, you're going to have to connect, and I get the feeling you might find that to be a little too intimate for your comfort.

Don't worry--I think I can manage; but I do appreciate the concern.

[IndiReloaded]

What do I need:
* I need someone to be an intellectual companion in the deepest sense--someone I can look up to and live up to. She might be smarter than me, which is totally fine with me, so long as it doesn't turn into a power game. Hopefully, she has other intellectual interests--it would make it more interesting to learn from each other rather than regurgitate the same stuff.

* I need someone with whom I can raise a child or children--that would mean that she's younger than me and mature and loving...and those three things in women younger than me...rare qualities in young women.

Sounds reasonable to me. Plus the snuggling part you mentioned before I don't think finding someone like this is a Herculean task, Cam.

To your second point: I'm not sure you can expect to find those qualities ready-made, esp if you pick someone a decade or so younger than you. I think what you are looking for is potential, someone who you can help to uncover these qualities. Kind of like the Rosetta Stone.

While I know you detest the idea in theory, a bit of controlled manipulation of a less mature (but potentially terrific!) partner to help her 'get there' might not be a bad thing. Especially if she is intelligent enough to appreciate post hoc why certain things were actually good things in the end. Fact is, you *are* likely to be older & wiser than your partner, Cam. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using such to your mutual advantage where it concerns a successful marriage.

Sometimes, the end *does* justify the means. Not in all situations, and not completely so you end up with a Stepford Wife, but using some kind of balanced approach so you both end up where you want. My two cents on that subject, anyway.

[Aeradalia]

Thanks for the further explanation. And, it makes me wonder even more.

What I come up with is this: I don't need very much.
*I don't need the emotional support of a woman, largely because I've been raised to believe that men who need women emotionally are weak. I realize I can change that, but it is rather embedded. I suppose we all need emotional support at some point, but I'm not some kind of metro-sexual crybaby.

*I don't need a woman to run the house--got that under control.

*I don't need a woman financially--again, totally under control.

*I don't need a woman to be a mother replacement---I love my own mother but I wasn't raised to be dependent.

*I don't need a woman physically, for pleasure that is--or, at least, not very often

What do I need:
* I need someone to be an intellectual companion in the deepest sense--someone I can look up to and live up to. She might be smarter than me, which is totally fine with me, so long as it doesn't turn into a power game. Hopefully, she has other intellectual interests--it would make it more interesting to learn from each other rather than regurgitate the same stuff.

* I need someone with whom I can raise a child or children--that would mean that she's younger than me and mature and loving...and those three things in women younger than me...rare qualities in young women.

All things considered... this isn't unreasonable...

You would be rather appealing if I were single... just from a logical standpoint.

[CAM]

Sounds reasonable to me. Plus the snuggling part you mentioned before I don't think finding someone like this is a Herculean task, Cam.

To your second point: I'm not sure you can expect to find those qualities ready-made, esp if you pick someone a decade or so younger than you. I think what you are looking for is potential, someone who you can help to uncover these qualities. Kind of like the Rosetta Stone.

While I know you detest the idea in theory, a bit of controlled manipulation of a less mature (but potentially terrific!) partner to help her 'get there' might not be a bad thing. Especially if she is intelligent enough to appreciate post hoc why certain things were actually good things in the end. Fact is, you *are* likely to be older & wiser than your partner, Cam. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using such to your mutual advantage where it concerns a successful marriage.

Sometimes, the end *does* justify the means. Not in all situations, and not completely so you end up with a Stepford Wife, but using some kind of balanced approach so you both end up where you want. My two cents on that subject, anyway.

You're definitely on to something here I probably would marry someone a bit younger, probably a "girl-Friday" type. Hard to find the one that is a super mature (but a good balance to my boring bookish nature) compliment to me.

[IndiReloaded]

Its just a way to open your options a bit more, Cam. I worry you set the bar unrealistically high. You're smart, this I know, but I am posting from my experience. What I lack in breadth I think I make up for in depth. That, and I think its simply unrealistic to expect a prepackaged 'complete partner'.

All the married couples I know, the ones who made it, went through some serious growing pains at some point in their relationship. I'm sure those you know would say the same. As the kids say, you got 'skillz', so make use of them.

[CAM]

Its just a way to open your options a bit more, Cam. I worry you set the bar unrealistically high. You're smart, this I know, but I am posting from my experience. What I lack in breadth I think I make up for in depth. That, and I think its simply unrealistic to expect a prepackaged 'complete partner'.

All the married couples I know, the ones who made it, went through some serious growing pains at some point in their relationship. I'm sure those you know would say the same. As the kids say, you got 'skillz', so make use of them.

I agree, no pre-packaged units available. One day, maybe, I'll meet the woman that makes me say, "Now, she's worth giving up half the closet space." Currently, my wardrobe occupies the whole closet

I watched "Groundhog Day" last night--cute film and very philosophical. Seems like life is a series of re-run events with the opportunity to change things up a bit and possibly to even open one's eyes to emotional attachment...sometimes, one doesn't even see what's in front of them.

[misombra]

the hard part is you don't know who's worth giving up your closet space for right away when you meet someone. gotta work up to that kind of thing.

[CAM]

the hard part is you don't know who's worth giving up your closet space for right away when you meet someone. gotta work up to that kind of thing.

Yes, I usually rush things and make snap judgments. BTW, closet sex is a great way to find out if her wardrobe will fit in with mine. Closet Time...its been fun, but not a good way to find out if she's "the one."