Apologists for Evil

[Mish]

lol, blaming France for their unruly, stupid and lazy Muslim population? Yeah I'll blame France too but for a different reason- Because they let the fucckers in in the first place. How many thousands of cars were burned last year (or the year before) by these camel jockeys?

I don't think you have a sufficient level of understanding of the situation in France to comment. If you lived in a country your grandfathers helped to build, in a community that made up some 10% of the population and was still denied access to jobs and education based on nothing but your skin colour and beliefs you'd be pretty pissed as well.

[Mish]

I don't believe it should be banned. I think that was an exaggeration. However, I do believe it should be looked upon with the same level of disgust that a klan hood would receive.

A klan hood (and a swastika commented in the video) are symbols of annihilation. They are symbols that you should die because I say so. A Hijab is a cultural and a Religious symbol. Muslim women are not being loaded onto trucks and driven into concentration camps in mass to be gassed to death so associations of Hijab = swastika or klan hood are completely ridiculous.

Yes there is a problem with inequality in Muslim countries, though if you look at countries with majority of Muslim population like Indonesia and Malaysia you will find a lot of examples of progress. For example, Indonesia had a woman president, when was the last time US had one?

By the way, if you are worried about rights of Muslim women let me tell you that no legal banning of Hijab has given better rights to Muslim women. In France, the result of banning of Hijab in a public school meant that any Muslim girl wearing one because they want to would be automatically expelled (and quite a few of them were without any further adieu). How is that helpful to the rights of Muslim women, how is that not discriminatory and not Islamophobic?

[IndiReloaded]

Yes there is a problem with inequality in Muslim countries, though if you look at countries with majority of Muslim population like Indonesia and Malaysia you will find a lot of examples of progress. For example, Indonesia had a woman president, when was the last time US had one?

Not US, but Western countries have examples of women leaders. Maggie Thatcher, Cristina Fernandez, Michelle Bachelet...

Are you saying US is more backwards than UK, Chile, Argentina? Just trying to understand how this point relates to inequality in muslim countries.

[Asip4u]

She read it the wrong way..Although i do have to say i worded it so it wasn't that clear....My point was that I AGREE that women in Arab countries are beaten by their husbands. The reason (and this is where she didn't get it) is for the fact that nobody cares for women over there...I meant that there is no freedom for women... I was born in former Yugoslavia...My dad use to beat my mom while we were back home...Now he can't do shit! No, it had nothing to do with religion...Men will take actions when they have nothing to fear! And over there, if a woman is beat up, nobody cares...In North America there would be huge rise in violence against women if certain laws didn't exist. She thought i was arguing against her but i was agreeing with certain aspects....The rest of her post was usual..."i don't like the way they dress"..great argument! and when i said about North American women and the way they dress being their choice..her answer is equal to..."no it's not their choice"..as if she knows how everyone thinks/feels.

Oh...OUCH! Great point.

[Gribble]

A burqa is a symbol that you should cover yourself up because if I see flesh I can't be held responsible for my carnal desires and it's your fault if I rape you. That is heinous and utterly reprehensible. Compare it to whatever you want if klan hoods are going too far. The point remains unchanged. Decent, civilized men and women should be disgusted by burqas and the men and women who endorse them.

Women vote, women hold office, women came very close to the presidency just recently, a woman may very well hold that title in the not too distant future. Women are divorcing abusive husbands and taking jobs that provide them with power and financial stability. Things are getting better all the time. I do believe that in the US we have room to talk.

[Mish]

A burqa is a symbol that you should cover yourself up because if I see flesh I can't be held responsible for my carnal desires and it's your fault if I rape you.

First of all, are we talking about Burqa or Hijab? Because the real Burqas like chadris which cover a woman head to toe are worn only by minority cultures of Muslim countries (like Afghanistan and Pakistan). A Hijab is the one worn by majority of Muslims and it can range from anything from a veil to a headscarf. Which one should not be allowed to be worn by Muslim women in your opinion? And what should be done if they want to wear it because it's a symbol of their culture?

[Gribble]

As I said, let them wear it. But don't smile and pretend it's okay, either. Treat them as they deserve to be treated. Glare at the men, make them feel unwelcome and uncomfortable. Let them know in no uncertain terms that if they cannot control themselves around civilized, self-respecting women they will pay dearly. Let the women know that you have no respect for anyone who would willingly degrade themselves. Most of all, let them know that they are humans first, Muslims last, and they will be criticized and judged the same as any other human being. Believe me, I wouldn't sit idly by while some white jock lives a "boys will be boys" lifestyle. I'd be out for his blood just the same.

If your culture is one of rape and violence your culture is awful and deserving of ridicule. I'm sick unto death of HUMAN BEINGS hiding behind their culture, as if that's some shield for their horrible behavior. That's the real point. Expect and learn to deal with criticism regardless of your culture, your religion, the color of your skin, or whichever shithole of a place you were born in.

[Asip4u]

Mish, this guy pulls info out of his ass. This is a good example of those people who try to create that "perfect" society...He basically knows everything that is right and wrong and what should be done...Maybe we should worship Gribble...

First of all, are we talking about Burqa or Hijab? Because the real Burqas like chadris which cover a woman head to toe are worn only by minority cultures of Muslim countries (like Afghanistan and Pakistan). A Hijab is the one worn by majority of Muslims and it can range from anything from a veil to a headscarf. Which one should not be allowed to be worn by Muslim women in your opinion? And what should be done if they want to wear it because it's a symbol of their culture?

[Gribble]

If you want to criticize what I have to say, do so. Point out where I'm wrong, where I need to add more. Otherwise do me a favor and keep your remarks to yourself. They add nothing.

[Mish]

If your culture is one of rape and violence your culture is awful and deserving of ridicule.

Funny you say that because statistically Muslim countries have a lot less incidents of rape, violence and crime compared to western countries.

Check this out





Whose culture is REALLY one of rape and violence?

[Asip4u]

We already talked about this a little bit Mish, they just ignore it..They like to talk about how "burqa is disgusting" lol..If they actually did their job and looked at all the rapes in US, they'd be amazed what they find...Yes guys, actual facts..Not your feelings on how the world should work!

[Mish]

Here is one for rapes

[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita[/url]

Crime Statistics > Rapes (per capita) (most recent) by country

# 1 South Africa: 1.19538 per 1,000 people
# 2 Seychelles: 0.788294 per 1,000 people
# 3 Australia: 0.777999 per 1,000 people
# 4 Montserrat: 0.749384 per 1,000 people
# 5 Canada: 0.733089 per 1,000 people
# 6 Jamaica: 0.476608 per 1,000 people
# 7 Zimbabwe: 0.457775 per 1,000 people
# 8 Dominica: 0.34768 per 1,000 people
# 9 United States: 0.301318 per 1,000 people
# 10 Iceland: 0.246009 per 1,000 people


# 50 Ukraine: 0.0244909 per 1,000 people
# 51 Slovakia: 0.0237525 per 1,000 people
# 52 Mauritius: 0.0219334 per 1,000 people
# 53 Turkey: 0.0180876 per 1,000 people
# 54 Japan: 0.017737 per 1,000 people
# 55 Hong Kong: 0.0150746 per 1,000 people
# 56 India: 0.0143187 per 1,000 people
# 57 Qatar: 0.0139042 per 1,000 people
# 58 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of: 0.0132029 per 1,000 people
# 59 Greece: 0.0106862 per 1,000 people
# 60 Georgia: 0.0100492 per 1,000 people
# 61 Armenia: 0.00938652 per 1,000 people
# 62 Indonesia: 0.00567003 per 1,000 people
# 63 Yemen: 0.0038597 per 1,000 people
# 64 Azerbaijan: 0.00379171 per 1,000 people
# 65 Saudi Arabia: 0.00329321 per 1,000 people

[Gribble]

Rape should be despised. Blame should be laid at the feet of the attacker, never the victim. These statements cannot be disputed by a civilized human. Culture has nothing to do with it.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying the US has the best or the "right" culture. I'm saying that culture, any culture, should never be used as a cop out and no culture or tradition should be immune to criticism, even harsh criticism. Burqas and hijabs are only a tiny part of the equation.

Respect should not extend to traditions that promote oppression.

P.S. I'm shocked at Canada's position in rape statistics. Indi, BS, care to comment?

[Asip4u]

I agree with that first paragraph..nobody is denying it. The second part i partly disagree with simply because i believe that CERTAIN degree of rules (like there is in religion) should be there to protect women. You on the other hand want them to make their own choices..you've said this over and over in your posts...I get that but i disagree simply because a lot of females out there DONT know how to make the best decisions and hence why i believe there is such a high rate of rapes in US.

Rape should be despised. Blame should be laid at the feet of the attacker, never the victim. These statements cannot be disputed by a civilized human. Culture has nothing to do with it.

You're missing my point. I'm not saying the US has the best or the "right" culture. I'm saying that culture, any culture, should never be used as a cop out and no culture or tradition should be immune to criticism, even harsh criticism. Burqas and hijabs are only a tiny part of the equation.

Tolerance should not extend to traditions that promote oppression.

[DoesntMatter]

I love how you cite statistics from authoritarian regimes and Islamic kingdoms and then think you can take them as the truth

How naive