Vile Beasts

[Mish]

You'd like to think so. Unfortunately, despite plenty of evidence, pedophiles can't be rehabilitated. You can't fix that shit, and yet they're routinely let out of jail after very short sentences.

Here's one from my neck of the woods:

[url]http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20149460,00.html[/url]

Sounds like this guy cheated the system

But his sentence was shortened for good behavior and he was paroled in 1999, before laws banning parole for murderers were passed.

I agree, people like that should not get away as easy as this guy. That's sickening. Someone lobby the government to make sure these flukes don't happen again.

I just don't see how these morbid fascinations with torture in this thread will help anyone or change anything. They're counter productive and only serve to show some shocking revelations of mob mentality and how similar to the same scum being condemned people can become in their imagination.

[IndiReloaded]

I just don't see how these morbid fascinations with torture in this thread will help anyone or change anything. They're counter productive and only serve to show some shocking revelations of mob mentality and how similar to the same scum being condemned people can become in their imagination.

One step removed, tho Mish, is to take people to task for their morbid fascinations.

Suggest *solutions* to consider if you want to motivate people to do differently.

[Mish]

One step removed, tho Mish, is to take people to task for their morbid fascinations.

Suggest *solutions* to consider if you want to motivate people to do differently.

I would, but I don't think my solutions to reducing the crime rate aimed at cultural changes, research of countries with low crime rate / implementation of their solutions and reducing crime thriving conditions like poverty will really fascinate anyone in this thread as much as torture. Which is sad, because they would get the job done much more efficiently.

[misombra]

i think the fascination stems from frustration that a lot of the time these people don't have remorse or have consequences that make the victims or families victims feel better about the whole thing. fantasizing about it is comforting. i don't know about the justice system in a lot of other countries, but in the usa our justice system favors those with money. if you have enough money you can get away with all kinds of shit and you can have justice. a lot of times victims or their families don't have enough money to get even with an offender. so a lot of people think about doing horrible things right back to them to make them suffer as much as they've made you suffer.

also i think it's human to think about that kind of thing. especially if you're broke and there's no way of getting legal justice if someone does something like that to you or your kids or siblings. if you don't think that then you definitely don't have anybody you care enough about to think that way. i would not call it strange.

[Mish]

i think the fascination stems from frustration that a lot of the time these people don't have remorse or have consequences that make the victims or families victims feel better about the whole thing. fantasizing about it is comforting. i don't know about the justice system in a lot of other countries, but in the usa our justice system favors those with money. if you have enough money you can get away with all kinds of shit and you can have justice. a lot of times victims or their families don't have enough money to get even with an offender. so a lot of people think about doing horrible things right back to them to make them suffer as much as they've made you suffer.

That's awful. I admit I don't know enough about justice system in US to say otherwise. But if that's part of the real problem then maybe people in this thread should discuss in what ways they can help to change it? Maybe support organizations that consistently lobby the government to make appropriate legislative changes, become more active in the legal system reform debates, make your voice be heard. That would be so much more productive and could lead to real changes in your state and it could really save lives.

[Gribble]

There are a lot of gray areas in this though. What if a guy robbed a store and really didn't want to kill anyone, but the shop keeper put up a fight with aim to kill the robber (some people talk about the pleasure and satisfaction they would get from killing a robber even on this forum) and got killed in the process, what then? Should the robber be rehabilitated or executed?

Absolutely you execute him. Or you lock him up. Or you send him to the moon. Whatever you do, you remove him from society forever. He chose to commit a crime and in the process he took an innocent life. That is unforgiveable.

[doppelgaenger]

I'm not surprised you all don't work for the government.

[Aeradalia]

I'm not surprised you all don't work for the government.

If I worked for the government... I wouldn't be bothered by the incompetence of the judicial system. Quite frankly... I wouldn't be aware of there being a problem outside of my cubicle or handful of co-workers who represent my view of the 'government.'

[IndiReloaded]

I'm not surprised you all don't work for the government.

Are you including me, Dopple? LOL.

[Gribble]

So here's a question: what do you think is a suitable punishment for the monsters who raped this 15 year old girl?

[Mish]

So here's a question: what do you think is a suitable punishment for the monsters who raped this 15 year old girl?

The criminals responsible should be given the highest sentences possible and those who stood by and watched taking photos should be rounded up as collaborators.

Now, since the emphasis of this thread is obviously on "Making sure this doesn't happen again" a number of high profile steps need to be taken. Because if you want to call these criminals monsters, then you have to call every single one, all contributing factors to what happened monstrous as well. First of all there needs to be a comprehensive investigation into the circumstances leading up to and contributing to the assault. Questions such as why was this much alcohol available on the school premises and under which circumstances a minor was able to consume so much alcohol on a high profile school night that she became semi conscious in full view of so many people must be answered and contributors punished as well (this should include the principal or any teachers aware of these types of the situations). What were the cultural contributions of the school she was in that allowed these circumstances to occur? Any breaches should be made public and steps should be taken to make sure they don't occur. The investigation should then move into establishment of psychological profiles of the criminals and the bystanders and identify all leading factors that influenced their behaviour and since we all want to be holistic in our approach of stopping these types of crimes take steps to remove these factors completely. If this is not possible, these factors should be made public and encourage a community push to make the state / federal government ensure appropriate changes occur.

[Gribble]

And what do you think will actually happen?

That is the main issue I have, and I'm reasonably certain the answer is "not enough."

[Mish]

And what do you think will actually happen?

That is the main issue I have, and I'm reasonably certain the answer is "not enough."

If all of the above are not going to happen it's only because there aren't thousands of voices consistently screaming to their local representatives for this to occur. Positive changes don't happen on their own. People who want to see these changes and live in a better and safer environment can't seat idly by in waiting. If people don't do anything, then aren't they in fact also the contributors?

[IndiReloaded]

I'm all for criminals becoming the servants of their victim. Not their specific victim, that would just be psychological torture for them, but someone similar. Indentured servitude works for me. Its not against their 'rights'--they gave up those rights when they chose to commit their crime.

Those teenage rapists should be forced to sit in on group therapy sessions for recovering victims. They need to actually become part of someone's recovery instead of being allowed to try to forget what happened.

I'm not big on guilt, but I do believe in atonement. If anything ever happened to my child, I wouldn't want anything to do with the actual criminal, but I can imagine very much wanting the opportunity to deal with someone who had done something similar.

[doppelgaenger]

I still think pink bunny suits are applicable. Nobody ever listens to me though *waves cane in the air*