Human Trash

[Incognito]

I'd like to discipline some adults with a belt. Not kids. Their brains aren't even done forming yet. They aren't entirely responsible for themselves.

By the time they're adults its too late. People have to be taught, moulded, and disciplined while young. That is why prisons are so full. Most are people who didn't have enough discipline or people who were abused. The ones who were properly trained and disciplined are on this forum and walking around outside.

[Asip4u]

@dewilliams..Dude, you stole your parents car at the age of 7? lmao!!

[dewilliams2]

By the time they're adults its too late. People have to be taught, moulded, and disciplined while young. That is why prisons are so full. Most are people who didn't have enough discipline or people who were abused. The ones who were properly trained and disciplined are on this forum and walking around outside.

Yea but it'd make me feel better.

Biggest problem I have with the current prison system is mandatory minimum sentences for drug convictions....I mean marijuana in my opinion should be legalized, farmed and taxed anyway. It would reduce prison overcrowding and increase tax revenue. So while we spend less on prisons, we get more in taxes...its an economic win-win. Plus we could have ATF and DEA spend more time looking for the bigger, harder drugs that are truly harmful to people.

As long as marijuana had the same laws placed on it as alcohol I don't see where there would truly be a problem. A lot of people smoke it anyways...may as well make it legal.

I'd also like to see chain gangs brought back. I know some states still do it. I mean they don't actually have to wear chains but small time offenders should be made to work on the infrastructure. Or if they have a skill, put them to work doing that skill at no pay to themselves but to the state. That money would go to keeping them. I know in Arizona they do that because I was out there and saw a bunch of women from the state prison picking up trash at the fairgrounds but Indiana doesn't do that at all.

[dewilliams2]

@dewilliams..Dude, you stole your parents car at the age of 7? lmao!!

Seemed like a brilliant idea at the time...driving looked like fun....ironically enough I hate driving now...traffic pisses me off. I figure I'll have a heart attack in traffic one of these days. Luckily my gf loves to drive so I make her take me pretty much everywhere.

[IndiReloaded]

@ Williams - Really? Everyone in my circle of family and friends would wonder what a 7-year old was doing alone in a car. Sounds like your parents dropped the ball, not you. They spanked you for their failing, IMO. I would have handled that much differently.

Of course you don't understand the logic--its not how you were raised.

Things are taken away from people all the time as a consequence for negative behaviour: money for a speeding ticket; a job for poor performance; a poor report card for failing to study... etc. That is the point. As for spankings, do you extend this to hitting your daughter with a belt? That is what incognito admits to doing. Since he clearly *isn't* Dr. Spock, he probably doesn't realize that studies suggest that children especially girls who were subjected to corporal punishment as children, are more susceptible to being victimized as adults.

But, he'll probably blow those experts off too. So I post this for the rest of you:

[url=http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200210/spare-the-rod]Spare the Rod? | Psychology Today[/url]

[Petit Papillon]

I do think that people who were beaten up as kids, are totally different parents to their own kids. My brother was beaten up for everything he has done( and sometimes it was really not his fault). Now he doesn't even spank his kid, it's actually crazy how patient he can be. And then his kid is not some wild beast. So, kids can be raised without physical punishments. You just have to learn how to say no and teach your child that no is no and no crying will help.
I was spanked a lot too, till now I have this feeling like I want to cry anytime someone hits my head. I hate this... I have never hit anybody in my life and I thin I will not. everytime I'm close to do it ,something holds me back ,actually a thought that this person might feel bad because of it . But then again it didn't happen a lot in my life I'm a cool person :p

[vashti]

I love that "spare the rod, spoil the child" saying. People often interpret that as some sort of warning that a child will be spoiled if you don't beat them, but I always read that as a directive: (you should) spare the rod (and instead) spoil the child.

[IndiReloaded]

My brother was beaten up for everything he has done( and sometimes it was really not his fault). Now he doesn't even spank his kid, it's actually crazy how patient he can be. And then his kid is not some wild beast. So, kids can be raised without physical punishments. You just have to learn how to say no and teach your child that no is no and no crying will help.

This was my family experience as well. The 3rd generation (the children of the beaten) seems to benefit from what came before.

Its the consistent message, not the spanking that is required. So, for those who would agree with this, then why would physical punishment EVER be considered to be a viable option? Again, its just for the impatient and mentally lazy.

I was spanked a lot too, till now I have this feeling like I want to cry anytime someone hits my head. I hate this... I have never hit anybody in my life and I thin I will not. everytime I'm close to do it ,something holds me back ,actually a thought that this person might feel bad because of it . But then again it didn't happen a lot in my life I'm a cool person :p

Vash said she doesn't forget, neither does my generation of relatives, neither do you. In fact, neither does dewilliams. Children who are spanked are outraged and only toe the line out of fear. That is not raising reasonable children, that is raising an animal. We understand so much more about human psychology and motivation now, that I think we owe children better than that.

[IndiReloaded]

I love that "spare the rod, spoil the child" saying. People often interpret that as some sort of warning that a child will be spoiled if you don't beat them, but I always read that as a directive: (you should) spare the rod (and instead) spoil the child.

Your kids are privileged, not spoiled. There's a difference. That, and I know your kids are made aware of the responsibility they have to society b/c of it.

My experiment is still in progress, but so far so good.

[Sonrisa]

This was my family experience as well. The 3rd generation (the children of the beaten) seems to benefit from what came before.

Its the consistent message, not the spanking that is required. So, for those who would agree with this, then why would physical punishment EVER be considered to be a viable option? Again, its just for the impatient and mentally lazy.



Vash said she doesn't forget, neither does my generation of relatives, neither do you. In fact, neither does dewilliams. Children who are spanked are outraged and only toe the line out of fear. That is not raising reasonable children, that is raising an animal. We understand so much more about human psychology and motivation now, that I think we owe children better than that.

I must be an animal cuz I was beaten badly when I was a child.

[Sonrisa]

what about parents who don't beat their kids when those deserve it? aren't those parents lazy as well?

not sure if anyone remembers me telling about a friend of mine who doesn't punish her kid no matter what he does. he talks to him and yells at him, but never touches. I wish I could beat that kid up.

[dewilliams2]

@ Williams - Really? Everyone in my circle of family and friends would wonder what a 7-year old was doing alone in a car. Sounds like your parents dropped the ball, not you. They spanked you for their failing, IMO. I would have handled that much differently.

Of course you don't understand the logic--its not how you were raised.

Things are taken away from people all the time as a consequence for negative behaviour: money for a speeding ticket; a job for poor performance; a poor report card for failing to study... etc. That is the point. As for spankings, do you extend this to hitting your daughter with a belt? That is what incognito admits to doing. Since he clearly *isn't* Dr. Spock, he probably doesn't realize that studies suggest that children especially girls who were subjected to corporal punishment as children, are more susceptible to being victimized as adults.

But, he'll probably blow those experts off too. So I post this for the rest of you:

[url=http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200210/spare-the-rod]Spare the Rod? | Psychology Today[/url]

My dad was outside the car pumping gas...I got in the drivers seat, turned the key and put the car in drive...where do you put your kids while you pump gas? Do you make them get out and stand next to you or wait to go in with you to pay?...I suppose my parents failed then if they are supposed to make me get out and stand next to them while the pump it as well...you speak so authoritatively on issues regardless of having all the facts...its is an admirable quality yet at the same time a great flaw in your argument style.

Truly once again after reading what you said about your upbringing I am sorry if you were abused as a child but I keep coming back to the point that you can spank a child without beating a child.

These are two separate things. If you have never experienced the lighter of the two and were only beat then I am greatly sorry for what you went through.

But I still maintain that it is not the discipline that raises the child but the lesson behind it.

Honestly I was a good kid...I required very little discipline. I was never really grounded and nothing was ever really takin from me for a long period of time....but I have always been very mature and made the right choices. But my parents also gave me options in life from an early age. They would let me choose what I wanted to do. Even when they felt I was on the wrong path they would tell me that there will be consequences for my actions and that I needed to choose wisely.

I really only ever had three major rules...they were, no drugs, keep my grades up, don't make babies. My parents pretty much picked their battles with everything else and let me be a kid. I admire my parents a lot...they raised me to be an individual and independent with my own opinions and the ability to motivate myself. I have had several people tell me that my greatest qualities are my intelligence and ambition. I had a wonderful childhood and I was never beaten...I was spanked on occasion but as I said...it was for only the most severe of things.

[Asip4u]

When i was younger, i was a good kid and still got beaten up for little mistakes pretty much every kid makes. I definitely learned a lesson of what NOT to do. Not many parents have that control so they just use their frustration on the kids. It's quite sad really.

[IndiReloaded]

I must be an animal cuz I was beaten badly when I was a child.

Your parents, not you. Clearly, you haven't forgotten either.

what about parents who don't discipline their kids when those deserve it? aren't those parents lazy as well?

Fixed your post, and yes.

Not sure if anyone remembers me telling about a friend of mine who doesn't punish her kid no matter what he does. he talks to him and yells at him, but never touches. I wish I could beat that kid up.

I remember. Yelling isn't much better than spanking, IMO. Kids mimic their parents, until they get old enough to realize there are other models out there and make a conscious decision to do different.

That's one of the things I really respect about Dopple, for example. Others on here as well who know who they are. People who manage to crawl out of the muck are doubly-deserving of respect. God help me if I ever fuk up, but I'll probably deserve it.

[IndiReloaded]

My dad was outside the car pumping gas...I got in the drivers seat, turned the key and put the car in drive...where do you put your kids while you pump gas?

My children are wearing a seatbelt. And yes, at 7 years old, the responsibility is clearly your parents.

Truly once again after reading what you said about your upbringing I am sorry if you were abused as a child but I keep coming back to the point that you can spank a child without beating a child.

You didn't understand my previous post. The religious beatings was two generations up from me. I wasn't ever beaten.

But I still maintain that it is not the discipline that raises the child but the lesson behind it.

You didn't understand my later post apparently, either. I don't disagree with this^, I just question that physical punishment is necessary given all the other options available. Its seems the risk vs. benefit just isn't worth it, when you consider longterm relationships, memories it evokes in the children, susceptibility to suggestion and abuse as an adult, etc. That isn't just my opinion and personal experience, there are studies supporting this.

Honestly I was a good kid...I required very little discipline. I was never really grounded and nothing was ever really takin from me for a long period of time....but I have always been very mature and made the right choices. But my parents also gave me options in life from an early age. They would let me choose what I wanted to do. Even when they felt I was on the wrong path they would tell me that there will be consequences for my actions and that I needed to choose wisely.

I really only ever had three major rules...they were, no drugs, keep my grades up, don't make babies. My parents pretty much picked their battles with everything else and let me be a kid. I admire my parents a lot...they raised me to be an individual and independent with my own opinions and the ability to motivate myself. I have had several people tell me that my greatest qualities are my intelligence and ambition. I had a wonderful childhood and I was never beaten...I was spanked on occasion but as I said...it was for only the most severe of things.

Well, then it seems your parents got it mostly right. Congrats. But do you still think that hitting a child with a belt is okay? Really, if you think this is preferable to using a reasoned approach to child raising, there isn't much more to say to each other.