Is this common in US?

[sparkle_jello]

If you grow up with something, you like it? That doesn't make any sense, unless you think I am from Germany (I'm not)
I don't understand why people are so opposed to taxes; taxes are good! Yay, taxes!

I don't think you are from the US, let me explain a little about taxes here. I hear in other countries it's like 40-60 %. Here, for middle class, it's about 20%, give or take. So, if a middle class family makes (ficticious numbers to prove a point) $1,000 a month, 200 is taken in taxes. so they have 800. Lets say 400 goes towards mortgage, they now have 400, and now 200 goes towards living, they now have 200, and that gets put into fun and savings equally. So off the 1000, they have wiggle room of 100 going into savings. If they increase taxes with this hc bill, middle class people will not be able to afford to live, their homes would go into foreclosure, their cars would be repossessed. They would get 1000 a month, 500 taken in taxes, take home $500... 400 towards mortgage, and 100 for living, fun, and savings... wont work.

And you can't say that these middle class people are living outside their means because they are living according to how taxes have been for like... ever.

[sparkle_jello]

What do you mean it has nothing to do with private sector? Exactly the same procedure that cost you 5K would cost only a few hundred here. Why are the costs so different? Can you honestly swear that there is no OVER charging going on?

The over charging that goes on helps to offset people that don't pay their bills, and goes towards doctors. Doctors graduate with 300k in student loans often times, they get paid a lot here. Doctors are also allowed to make much greater profit here, if you take away the potential to make profit many of the doctors will leave.

[sparkle_jello]

Bad things about german health care... It could be even CHEAPER!My stepfather told me that in the past you didn't have to pay those 10euro/quartal for doctor visits and 10euro for a day at hospital. You didn't pay at all. And prescription instead of 5 euro costed you like 0,50 Pffenig lol .

Your german healthcare isn't cheap... you pay for it in other ways.

[doppelgaenger]

I don't think you are from the US, let me explain a little about taxes here.

Lol, you just lost every ounce of credibility right there. There's no point in arguing with someone who won't even acknowledge my citizenship as an American.
I have the impression that you're debating with a bunch of hearsay nonsense and I really don't get the impression that you know what you're talking about. Most people here are bringing an educated view to the table for discussion. For example, PP and I have actually lived in Germany recently (as in within the last 2 years) and we both have had German health insurance. I (I'm sure she does too) have a lot of German connections who like to compare US health care to German. Hell, I was in Africa this summer, and I thought their health care system was better than America's! I've actually read quite a bit of material on Obama's health care plan and I'm pretty content with things. Why not instead of saying something "simply won't work", why don't you take a good look at it and figure out what's wrong with it? If you think you can come up with something better, why aren't you president already?

[sparkle_jello]

Lol, you just lost every ounce of credibility right there. There's no point in arguing with someone who won't even acknowledge my citizenship as an American.
I have the impression that you're debating with a bunch of hearsay nonsense and I really don't get the impression that you know what you're talking about. Most people here are bringing an educated view to the table for discussion. For example, PP and I have actually lived in Germany recently (as in within the last 2 years) and we both have had German health insurance. I (I'm sure she does too) have a lot of German connections who like to compare US health care to German. Hell, I was in Africa this summer, and I thought their health care system was better than America's! I've actually read quite a bit of material on Obama's health care plan and I'm pretty content with things. Why not instead of saying something "simply won't work", why don't you take a good look at it and figure out what's wrong with it? If you think you can come up with something better, why aren't you president already?

The flag next to your avatar is not US, I thought that indicated your country. I don't know if your american.

I know a great deal about the hc reform because I worked in health insurance for over two and a half years, because of this I got my degree in hc administration. I had to do several research papers on both bc reform and problems with the hc system. Just about everything I have put in here can be backed by scholarly resources; things such as shortage of hc professionals, and walmart, and so forth. I have opinions that I back up with facts... not many other people on this forum have done that.

[misombra]

this post is going back to regard the original post. the wealthy in this country have to perpetuate that idea that poor people put themselves their poor condition and are to blame for the country's economic trouble. because the truth is that many rich people got there by pimping the system, stealing from others, and/or whoring themselves out. if you look into the history of all the filthy rich people in this country, you will see this as a legacy and a lot of the times it's overt.

the 50% of people who believe they can be rich are fools if they also think they can become rich being honest, ethical, hard working people. because that's bullshit.

[sparkle_jello]

this post is going back to regard the original post. the wealthy in this country have to perpetuate that idea that poor people put themselves their poor condition and are to blame for the country's economic trouble. because the truth is that many rich people got there by pimping the system, stealing from others, and/or whoring themselves out. if you look into the history of all the filthy rich people in this country, you will see this as a legacy and a lot of the times it's overt.

the 50% of people who believe they can be rich are fools if they also think they can become rich being honest, ethical, hard working people. because that's bullshit.

Many poor people do put themselves in their poor condition. My mother grew up in a nice middle class home, so did my dad, they ended up living in filth. There were many reasons why, but they were to blame. In the US there are so many opportunities. Going to school is free. I don't want to be socialist, and I don't want to be supporting or enabling a lower class. Poor people that have 6 children aren't like that because the wealthy forced them to have sex, come on now. There is always someone to blame for your mistakes; however, whenever someone does something right they are more than happy to take credit.

[Petit Papillon]

Your german healthcare isn't cheap... you pay for it in other ways.

For sure you mean taxes... Here some taxes facts :
Income tax:
<7.663euro/year - no need to pay tax (actually you pay the tax but you get it back with tax return
<52.151euro/year - 15%
<249.000euro/year -42%
>250.000euro/year - 45%

Religion tax:
If you declare that you belong to any of religion, you pay 7-9% of tax (it depends on the Bundesland and again if your income is lower than 7663, yo get it back in the beginning of next year .

Corporate tax:
<3835euro/year - no tax
>3836euro/year - 25%

Trade tax:
Around 18%-20% - it depends on the region.

Value added tax:
Basic rate is 19% , but food and books is ony 7%

[sparkle_jello]

For sure you mean taxes... Here some taxes facts :
Income tax:
<7.663euro/year - no need to pay tax (actually you pay the tax but you get it back with tax return
<52.151euro/year - 15%
<249.000euro/year -42%
>250.000euro/year - 45%

Religion tax:
If you declare that you belong to any of religion, you pay 7-9% of tax (it depends on the Bundesland and again if your income is lower than 7663, yo get it back in the beginning of next year .

Corporate tax:
<3835euro/year - no tax
>3836euro/year - 25%

Trade tax:
Around 18%-20% - it depends on the region.

Value added tax:
Basic rate is 19% , but food and books is ony 7%

I'm not good with Europe and taxes so I'm willing to guess whatever you just put on there is correct. I'm willing to guess your period is our comma... which helps make sense of it. The US is completely different though, and if we went to different tax brackets, by that I mean instead of paying 20% we pay 40% etc... a LOT of people would be in trouble.

[Lipp]

The over charging that goes on helps to offset people that don't pay their bills, and goes towards doctors. Doctors graduate with 300k in student loans often times, they get paid a lot here. Doctors are also allowed to make much greater profit here, if you take away the potential to make profit many of the doctors will leave.

What is the point of having highly specialized and well-paid doctors if you run a nurse shortage and cost inflation that cripples basic care to begin with?
Do you want to treat the masses or the 1/10 000 case guy with a malignant rhaboid tumour?

[sparkle_jello]

What is the point of having highly specialized and well-paid doctors if you run a nurse shortage and cost inflation that cripples basic care to begin with?
Do you want to treat the masses or the 1/10 000 case guy with a malignant rhaboid tumour?

There are several reasons for the nursing shortage, one reason is because nurses do not want to become teachers because of the large pay cut they take assuming the position. I would ask Vashi more about the nursing shortage though.

The fact that we do treat even the most dire situations means that we are dedicated to research and technology. This is important because we will eventually discover better ways to treat people. There are some that would say why treat altheimers (sp) because it affects old people that are going to die anyways? Well, we should be treating them, and we should be aggressively pursuing a cure. This will lead to advancements and higher life expectancies, and greater quality of life.

[Petit Papillon]

Don't forget to add that just old people that *deserve* to be treated should get the cure. All those useless ****ers ,who just became old should kiss their old farting asses and die ,right? Don't forget about old people who simply don't afford the insurance,even though they have worked in their lives ... They don't deserve any cure as well... Ehhh

[sparkle_jello]

Don't forget to add that just old people that *deserve* to be treated should get the cure. All those useless ****ers ,who just became old should kiss their old farting asses and die ,right? Don't forget about old people who simply don't afford the insurance,even though they have worked in their lives ... They don't deserve any cure as well... Ehhh

Ummm... I think old people should get treated. IN FACT, here in the united states, there is Medicare. All old people over 65 get covered because they've pretty much worked to get us where we are and deserve it. In case you didn't know.

[Sonrisa]

What do you mean it has nothing to do with private sector? Exactly the same procedure that cost you 5K would cost only a few hundred here. Why are the costs so different? Can you honestly swear that there is no OVER charging going on?

of course they are overcharging. but we are also overpaying our staff. i know a nurse from Germany who made at least 5 times less back there then she does here. explain that please.

[Sonrisa]

Ummm... I think old people should get treated. IN FACT, here in the united states, there is Medicare. All old people over 65 get covered because they've pretty much worked to get us where we are and deserve it. In case you didn't know.

I just want to clarify that Medicare coverage is pretty good.