Losing your loved one to death vs. being dumped...

[Kyeema]

I'm going to have to second both Pisces and Wakeup. The hardest thing to realise with all relationships (and everything else in life) is that they are transient. Life goes on. The true struggle in all relationships is bonding and attachment. With attachment comes suffering. I'm so aware of this and trying to work on my own issues with attachment and not continuously grasp or hold onto another as this causes more suffering. To be honest no one is worth that amount of pain.

I agree with you here completely. I was way to attached to my ex, he was the world to me, everything. I didn't ever think of us breaking up. Him + me = us. That was an unbreakable fact. I was wrong. Nothing is written in stone. And I also agree no one is worth this amount of pain.

Though Wakeup's message is harsh, I think it has truth in it. Did you truly love this person? With love comes forgiveness and the ability to let go.

The trouble with Wakeup's message is that it's off-topic. My post has never been about which I'd prefer but about letting go and moving on afterwards. How do you even get to think something else? I am really shocked!

I've lost someone very special to death and I'm still getting over it. It has been one of the most difficult and painful things I have had to cope with in my life. Like everyone else I've had a number of break ups, but what made the break-ups difficult was that I didn't want to let go.

I am very sorry for your loss.

And that's the difference I think: with death you have no other choice. You have to move on. Or at least try as good as you can. Some never manage.

With break-ups you first have to get to the point of accepting the end of the relationship. I think this is what makes the letting go harder. I am not talking about sadness and all the emotions connected with death or break-up or which is worse. But with death you know that it's over, even if you struggle with the fact and don't want to believe it. Breakup leaves this little door to re-unition open. So close this door first. And I think what makes it even harder is when you were not the one leaving because then you usually did not want to break-up at all. As with me. So I have to close this door although I never wanted to close it at all. This is what makes it so hard. Thanks, Jenswaiting, you helped me to realize an important part of my puzzle here.

[Vanessa]

My point was ALL relationships end at some point. Accepting this from day one of meeting someone gives people a greater chance of not having an unhealthy attachment to them. Why don't we celebrate when we break up? Why can't we go 'wow that was an AMAZING ten years , thankyou. All the best'. Instead we scream, cry, mourn, etc. It is all about perspective. IMO KNOWING the relationship is not permanent makes it easier to move on when it is a bad r/ship and similarly if I get dumped, yes it's painful, but I know from the outset we have/had to part at some point and I will have other relationships. We are with people because we WANT to be. If someone doesn't want to be with me anymore, totally up to them. How can I blame them for that? Or blame myself that I did something wrong?

Yeah, that's absolutely true, but not everyone sees it that way. Don't think that I'm one of those persons that I was describing, blaming myself for failed relationships, and I'm not saying in any way that anyone here is like that, I'm just saying that generally *a lot* of people think that way. I don't spend an entire relationship thinking that it's gonna end, but when it does one of the things that help me move on is knowing that it would have ended eventually, whether it was at that moment or later on in time, and that I wouldn't have spent my entire life with that guy. Have you never met girls who one month into a relationship start thinking of patterns for wedding invitations? Some people are simply not realistic.

Overall I'd never think that it would be easier to move on if the person I love(d) would pass away than knowing they're still alive and potentially with someone else. I'd rather take the time to get past the separation and hopefully be able to sit down and have a drink with them someday, even though it would tear me to pieces in the beginning. It's true that if you really love someone you want them to be well no matter what that means for them.

[Wakeup]

When someone dies, this option no longer exists. You HAVE to let go, there is no choice. Perhaps that's the crux here: you have to get yourself to the point where the option of getting the person back no longer exists.

Well, if you think about it, you have no choice when someone breaks up with you either and that is the attitude you need to garner in order to get over someone leaving you. YOU HAVE NO CHOICE because you are not in control of them.

You have 100% control over yourself and no one else and so if you adopt the attitude that you do not have a choice, that the choice is theirs whether they want to come back or not and no matter what you do or say, they will stay gone unless they choose to call and say they are sorry, then perhaps y'all will heal quicker and have no need to be maudlin and pity-seeking and in pain for such a long space of time.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Most of you in the Broken Hearts sub forum cling to your pain like it's your best friend. You are afraid to let go of your pain because it's the only thing that keeps you connected to the person who left you. It's another form of having the need to control and a move that cuts off your nose to spite your own face.

BTW: My "message" is hardly off topic when you say this in your opening post:

But still I think that this kind of letting go is "easier" somehow than letting go after you've been dumped.

My "mesage" was based on that line and your apparent inability to let go of the need to control outcomes. Try that book, I think it will help you.

[hurtsoul80]

then perhaps y'all will heal quicker and have no need to be maudlin and pity-seeking and in pain for such a long space of time.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Most of you in the Broken Hearts sub forum cling to your pain like it's your best friend. You are afraid to let go of your pain because it's the only thing that keeps you connected to the person who left you. It's another form of having the need to control and a move that cuts off your nose to spite your own face.

Perhaps us'all should create a forum with people who are similar to us and let y'all "strong" people out. I really cannot see what kind of satisfaction does it give you to go around playing strong and showing no sympathy and empathy for people that are in pain.

People are in this forum because they want to feel self-pity and they want to speak with people that understand them. They really don't need a "Teacher" or a "Mother" to lecture them and tell them to grow up or to be strong and to stop the self-pity. This is not about logic its about feelings.

I would really like to know why are you using hard expressions about others. But I bet you don't know either. And really Wakeup if you are sh*t strong and too god damn knowledgeable and everything, why do you come to this forum? I bet you don't know the answer to this question either.

Kyeema is in pain. She was wondering if the kind of pain she is feeling is different than that of a loss due to death and which one is easier to get over and let go. Although my take is that its is much harder for the case of death, I can completely see where she is coming from. When you are heart broken it is easy to get in the loop of "Oh maybe I can win him/her back" "Maybe one day he will come back". Also when you are heart broken you always have to wonder what you did wrong and if you will ever find somebody to be with you without leaving you.

As I said personally I prefer this. But as Kyeamma said its not about what you prefer but if the two are different. Which they are!

Now regarding "when you love somebody, you should be happy about them even when they are with another person". Its not that simple. You love the other person but he broke your heart. He broke your trust. So you go through periods that you will hate them and through periods that you love them and forgive them all the pain they caused you. Its normal. And again its feelings and not logic.

And its not just a bruised ego. Its a broken heart.

Kyeema has shown that she is a very sensitive person while you have proven your self to be completely insensitive. Thinking that your way is right and her way is wrong is the biggest fallacy. Let her be sensitive and live and feel things that you have never imagined. There is no right or wrong. Let her be the way she wants to be. And if you want to give an advice then give it with an affectionate tone. Stop being harsh. Nobody needs your harshness.

Really Wakeup. What are you doing in this forum if you are not heart-broken or in love or have relationship issues??

[Wakeup]

And really Wakeup if you are sh*t strong and too god damn knowledgeable and everything, why do you come to this forum? I bet you don't know the answer to this question either.

I come to this forum because I enjoy debate and discussion and helping people to get past ruts then are in. (when it's obvious they are in a rut that is) Why do you suppose anyone comes to a forum board? What an odd question?

There are several people who are "heart broken" who post here to give you and other's like you (those stuck in denial and pain) what they want like sympathy and concurrence so that you stay mired in your pain and denial. I'm the opposite to that, I give you things to think about that do not have the same nuance as all the others who agree and sympathize.

Why do you suppose forum boards exist? If we all had the same opinion, there would be no reason to discuss other ideas.

When something isn't working then how about changing it up? OP asks for way to "let go" the problem is she appears to be afraid to let go or she would have been well on her way to doing that by now and not have need to compare being left through death being easier than through breakup which is her ego talking and not her broken heart.

[sting3r]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Most of you in the Broken Hearts sub forum cling to your pain like it's your best friend. You are afraid to let go of your pain because it's the only thing that keeps you connected to the person who left you. It's another form of having the need to control and a move that cuts off your nose to spite your own face.

Are you suggesting its a choice we make? If it was possible to completely erase someone from our memory, I'd do it. Even after making efforts of moving on, and accepting that reality and the fact that its over, I cannot control my subconscious and something or the other reminds me of my ex. It brings back the pain. Some days it won't affect me at all, other times it does.

What would you have us do? (genuine question from my end). I don't visit this part of the forum so I can think of my ex. I usually come here to read a bit about what other people are going through. Sometimes I can relate to them and it tells me that I'm not alone on this or to put things in perspective. It helps a lot.

[Wakeup]

Are you suggesting its a choice we make?

Yes I am. We can conciously work through the 5 stages of grief and though mind exercises (such as aversion therapy) to learn to forget those that were once a part of our lives. It doesn't happen over night but we certainly can come to the stage of acceptance and ultimately "indifference" a lot sooner if you do not dwell. One of the ways to forget something or someone is to put an elastic band around your wrist and everytime the person/thing pops into your mind if you snap the band, it will bring you out of your reverie. Eventually you will get to the point where you'll think less and less about that person/thing and next thing you know, you're indifferent to it/them. *It seems so many of you (the general you) are afraid to get to that stage. (of indifference)

If it was possible to completely erase someone from our memory, I'd do it.

It's impossible unless you have amnesia. However; the goal is to get to the point of indifference to them so that you don't long for them and feel that physical pain of being separated from them. Do you see?

Even after making efforts of moving on, and accepting that reality and the fact that its over, I cannot control my subconscious and something or the other reminds me of my ex. It brings back the pain. Some days it won't affect me at all, other times it does.

That's common and normal and if you immediately dismiss them from your mind by keeping busy or changing the subject of your thoughts instead of wallowing in those thoughts "like they are your best friend" then you will eventually become indifferent to your memories and you'll be able to visit them without longing. You'll also be at the point where your baggage is safely stored away and you'll be in a good and healthy place to form a new loving bond with someone without the thoughts and longing for another occupying your free thoughts and causing you to miss a beautiful person by not being able to bond with them. You'll be open to being loved once again if you reach the stage of indifference... which should be a goal I'm thinking.

What would you have us do? (genuine question from my end).

Consciously will your thoughts to something other than your ex, keep busy by doing things you've always wanted to do but have not yet done, start a new hobby, join a co-ed sports team so you meet like minded, healthy singles, read self improvment titles, learn about yourself and what you can to to improve your own confidence so that you know that you will indeed find someone to love and that it will be worth being emotionally healthy when you meet them.

I don't visit this part of the forum so I can think of my ex. I usually come here to read a bit about what other people are going through. Sometimes I can relate to them and it tells me that I'm not alone on this or to put things in perspective.

Of course you don't consciously come here to think about your ex but sub-concsiously everytime you do, your ex is the main subject in your mind. No? Of coure you're not alone, someone breaksup with someone and grieves somewhere in the world all the time. Instead of talking about your own ex (the general "your") all the time, why not help each other to forget and move on? Sympathy and concurrence shouldn't be one's new hobby IMO.

It helps a lot.

I suppose it helps knowing that others are as miserable as you may be, a type of bandaid solution for the time being however ; I don't agree that it helps heal the actual wound.

People are in this forum because they want to feel self-pity

Wow! That statement just about sums up every thing I've suspected. (not that you speak for everyone). You don't want to let go of your best friend.

[hurtsoul80]

I don't know about the others but I did use to come to conciousl talk about my ex and share my pain.

Indeed there are people that need "harsh" advices and people who really don't want to take any more "tough love". They prefer a kind word and a stroke and a hug.

And it's not difficult to tell who is who.

It's like coming home from a bad day in office. You don't need to hear logical arguments and how you were wrong. All you need is to cuddle and somebody who understands how you feel and is happy to be there for you. Even if you were wrong.

Having said that I have to admit that your help is usually very good and you have given me some great advices, which I thank you very much for. I am just trying to say that some people here are to share emotions and not to logically argue.

[sting3r]

One of the ways to forget something or someone is to put an elastic band around your wrist and everytime the person/thing pops into your mind if you snap the band, it will bring you out of your reverie. Eventually you will get to the point where you'll think leas and less about that person/thing and next thing you know, you're indifferent to it/them.

I'll definitely be honest with myself and try that.

It's impossible unless you have amnesia. However; the goal is to get to the point of indifference to them so that you don't long for them and feel that physical pain of being separated from them. Do you see?

I was there not long ago and it felt great. And now that I think about it, I brought this upon myself. But its not the separation that causes my 'pain', or hoping we'd get back together, no. Its her blowing me off like I don't even matter. Makes me hate myself for wasting 3 years of my life on her.

read self improvment titles, learn about yourself and what you can to to improve your own confidence

I've been reading David D. Burns "Feeling Good". Excellent book. I just get lazy when it comes to implementing the ideas presented. I guess this is where I'm making a choice to be miserable? Hmmm.

Instead of talking about your own ex (the general "your") all the time, why not help each other to forget and move on? Sympathy and concurrence shouldn't be one's new hobby IMO.

Not everyone is open to harsh criticism like that. A little sympathy can't possibly be a bad thing.

I suppose it helps knowing that others are as miserable as you may be, a type of bandaid solution for the time being however ; I don't agree that it helps heal the actual wound.

You're right. Its a temporary fix. The fact that I still visit this sub-forum (without actually helping someone else) proves that.

[Wakeup]

It's like coming home from a bad day in office. You don't need to hear logical arguments and how you were wrong. All you need is to cuddle and somebody who understands how you feel and is happy to be there for you. Even if you were wrong.

This is where my signature would come into practice. What you propose is called "enabling" someone to be who they are (when who they are was not them being the best them that they could be. They were wrong after all.).

Not everyone is open to harsh criticism like that. A little sympathy can't possibly be a bad thing.

Sympathy is certainly warranted when you first find out you've been dumped. I think everyone needs to vent and hear a kind word however; I'm of the belief that it doesn't need to keep being given indefinately.
I suppose that's why I usually wait for pages on end of hearing the same stuff before I finally come in with (usually non-sypathetic) differeing opinion.

Thanks for your thoughts, sting.

[IndiReloaded]

P.S. My condolences to your Aunt. She was with her man longer than she was without him. That's a huge adjustement she'll have to endure.

Did you know her aunt? What a weird thing to post. I think you mean the OP should be giving her aunt condolences?

Anyway, don't you think this is a young girl who simply doesn't know what she is talking about? Not that she's trying to one-up her aunts loss?

I could be completely wrong here. I haven't read any other posts from this gal, but that would be my first assumption.

[Kyeema]

BTW: My "message" is hardly off topic when you say this in your opening post: My "mesage" was based on that line and your apparent inability to let go of the need to control outcomes.

You see, that's it, I was not making a choice on what I'd prefered, I was just thinking about how it would/could possibly feel (especially for my Aunt) and which one would be easier to get over while you implied that I prefered losing someone by death. And that's simply not true. I prefer losing nobody. And I have no control about whom and when I lose in my life at all. If I'd have to decide which one I'd prefer it would also be being dumped. Although I still think that letting go of someone who died might be easier for 2 reasons: first, it's final, nothing to do about it, no hope. Second knowing that you are still loved and waited upon is consoling somehow. And yes, you'll mock me again, somehow he would always be there for me as my guardian angel. The being alone would be different. But who am I to say, I was never in a position like that and I hope I will never be. Perhaps it's also just because I am in this other position now so it feels worse than anything else. Would I have lost him because he died I'd probably find hundreds of reasons why letting go after being dumped would be easier. Because when I think of him dying while we were still happy together, unimaginable. So I think I'll leave it at being different. That's it.

So Wakeup tell me what outcomes do I want to control? How do you from my post get that I need to be in control and that it's my ego speaking? I am not in control of anything but me. Oh yes, you're right I'd like to make sure he pays me my money back and his part of our debts. That's something I'd like to control, that's true. But I don't even have control over that although it's essential for my existence. I can just slightly influence it by being friendly with him which goes against your NC policy...

OP asks for way to "let go" the problem is she appears to be afraid to let go or she would have been well on her way to doing that by now and not have need to compare being left through death being easier than through breakup which is her ego talking and not her broken heart.

You know this topic came up because my uncle died - otherwise I'd never had thought of it.

You have 100% control over yourself and no one else and so if you adopt the attitude that you do not have a choice, that the choice is theirs whether they want to come back or not and no matter what you do or say, they will stay gone unless they choose to call and say they are sorry, then perhaps y'all will heal quicker and have no need to be maudlin and pity-seeking and in pain for such a long space of time.

First, even if he did apologize and wanted to come back I wouldn't take him back. Second, I know that I have no control over that. It's his life, he can do whatever he wants, no doubts there. Still it hurts... and it's not that I seek to stay in this pain, I try do distract myself, do this, meet friends, walk the dogs, but the pain keeps coming back. It's striking like lightening and then I go here to write because I don't know how else to go about this pain. Writing here helps and it's definitely better than calling him and wanting to tell him the truth about how he not fought for us (which he claims now), how he never talked about stuff (not with me, only with his female friends), how he just left without even breaking up, how he is not the hero he claims to be (these are the latest things that even haunt me in my sleep)... it's better to leave this stuff here, get it off my chest than thinking about it again and again no matter what I do...

Try that book, I think it will help you.

I just ordered it, thanks for the tip! I definitely need to learn how to take care of myself instead of everybody else.

Yes I am. We can conciously work through the 5 stages of grief and though mind exercises (such as aversion therapy) to learn to forget those that were once a part of our lives. It doesn't happen over night but we certainly can come to the stage of acceptance and ultimately "indifference" a lot sooner if you do not dwell. One of the ways to forget something or someone is to put an elastic band around your wrist and everytime the person/thing pops into your mind if you snap the band, it will bring you out of your reverie. Eventually you will get to the point where you'll think less and less about that person/thing and next thing you know, you're indifferent to it/them. *It seems so many of you (the general you) are afraid to get to that stage. (of indifference)

Haha... the elastic band trick which should do it for preventing self-injuries too. I can just laugh about that. It's nice on paper. But never helped me because I don't even feel this kind of pain... it's nothing compared ot the emotional pain...

And it's not being afraid of indifference... indifference sounds perfect to me... a relief... I'd love to be there... but I'm still not done with anger and depression, perhaps not even fully with acceptance, because I can sometimes find myself thinking it all can't be true. It must be a nightmare I will wake up from any second now. No bargaining though, there is no way back.

That's common and normal and if you immediately dismiss them from your mind by keeping busy or changing the subject of your thoughts instead of wallowing in those thoughts "like they are your best friend" then you will eventually become indifferent to your memories and you'll be able to visit them without longing. You'll also be at the point where your baggage is safely stored away and you'll be in a good and healthy place to form a new loving bond with someone without the thoughts and longing for another occupying your free thoughts and causing you to miss a beautiful person by not being able to bond with them. You'll be open to being loved once again if you reach the stage of indifference... which should be a goal I'm thinking.

There are times when dismissing these thoughts works, but there are times when the thoughts and memories keep coming back again ang again... there is no escape... then I come here and lament as you call it... and it helps... what is especially hard for me is that I live in this house where every corner reminds me of him, where everything is old and needs to be renovated, where we moved to because of him while he is now where I come from and would like to go back to. I can't afford moving or renovating, so I am stuck here. Would be a lot easier if I could get out and have NC. Both is not possible in my case. I have to do it the hard way. I have to learn to get over it in the middle of it. Any suggestions on how to do that the best way?

Consciously will your thoughts to something other than your ex, keep busy by doing things you've always wanted to do but have not yet done, start a new hobby, join a co-ed sports team so you meet like minded, healthy singles, read self improvment titles, learn about yourself and what you can to to improve your own confidence so that you know that you will indeed find someone to love and that it will be worth being emotionally healthy when you meet them.

For me that means: I need to find things I'd like to do, I (have) read plenty of self-improvement books, no co-ed sports team nearby sorry and I don't like what most of the people around here like to do: getting drunk. Not for me, no thanks. What I want to learn is to be self-sufficient. Do things on my own. Not needing anybody around me to be happy.

There are several people who are "heart broken" who post here to give you and other's like you (those stuck in denial and pain) what they want like sympathy and concurrence so that you stay mired in your pain and denial. I'm the opposite to that, I give you things to think about that do not have the same nuance as all the others who agree and sympathize.

Whose ego is speaking here? All the others writing the wrong stuff, but only our hero Wakeup who dares to do the right thing...

Coming here helps a lot. I agree. It helps to know that there are others who go through the same stuff. It helps to post motivating and self-enabling words. And yes these words can be soft, nice and empathic. And yes, there can be sympathy in it. Both can go hand in hand. It also helps to read nice and sympathetic words. It helps to feel understood. But it surely doesn't help being lectured.

I don't know about the others but I did use to come to conciousl talk about my ex and share my pain.

Indeed there are people that need "harsh" advices and people who really don't want to take any more "tough love". They prefer a kind word and a stroke and a hug.

And it's not difficult to tell who is who.

It's like coming home from a bad day in office. You don't need to hear logical arguments and how you were wrong. All you need is to cuddle and somebody who understands how you feel and is happy to be there for you. Even if you were wrong.

I agree... especially as we all know very well what we have to do, what is best for us. What I need when I come here is a little bit of love, reassurement and kind words... yes and hugs are nice too. Things I don't get no where else at the moment. Things that make me feel better and allow me to go on with my life knowing that I am not alone. Thanks hurtsoul for speaking the truth!

People are in this forum because they want to feel self-pity

I knew that you would hang on that, Wakeup, but I also know that hurtsoul didn't really mean self-pity, but sympathy and understanding. Didn't you? At least I don't come here for self-pity. I come here for warmth and understanding as I said before. Something I can't get here in my surroundings at the moment, but which I really need.

You're right. Its a temporary fix.

No it's not a fix at all. It's more like a bandaid that helps you to go through the worst moments without falling apart and losing all hope. So you can then when you feel better work on healing your wounds again. It's like stopping the worst bleeding by pressure. It keeps you alive and going.

[hurtsoul80]

What you propose is called "enabling" someone to be who they are (when who they are was not them being the best them that they could be. They were wrong after all.).

No. Its called sympathy and empathy.

What you propose however is called patronizing. People know they are wrong. Know what they have to do. Sometimes they don't know *how* to do it. When they come and ask for help I will tell give them constructive feedback. But by no means I will try to force down their throat what *I* *think* is right. And even worst deliver it in a harsh way.

That's a mother child behavior in it's worst. I assume that everyone is adult and treat the as such.

[IndiReloaded]

Meh. Wakeup's style works for a certain type of poster. This is the thing about forums: take what works and ignore the rest.

[Kyeema]

This is where my signature would come into practice. What you propose is called "enabling" someone to be who they are (when who they are was not them being the best them that they could be. They were wrong after all.).

But the thing is everybody knows where they are wrong. Nobody needs to be told that again and again. The hard thing is to make things right. By being told how wrong I am (which triggers a lot in me btw because that's all I got to hear when I was young and believe me even years of therapy haven't really helped me to get rid of that completely) I feel bad, I feel weak, I feel I have failed again. By reading nice and encouraging words I get the feeling that perhaps I am not that bad after all, perhaps there is a chance for me to get over all this and have a better life...

I think everybody needs a different approach. Depending on their personalities and pasts. What helps the one can destroy the other.

Did you know her aunt? What a weird thing to post. I think you mean the OP should be giving her aunt condolences?

Anyway, don't you think this is a young girl who simply doesn't know what she is talking about? Not that she's trying to one-up her aunts loss?

I could be completely wrong here. I haven't read any other posts from this gal, but that would be my first assumption.

No I am not very young and I do know what I am talking about - most of the time at least ;-) I am trying to cope with the loss of my uncle and the loss of my ex. And that's how I came to think about this topic. That's all. I try to find my way around all this. It's just too much at the moment.