Connecticut Shooting Leaves 28 Dead, Including 20 Pupils

[AdminOnline]

OMG!!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-12-14/connecticut-shooting-leaves-27-dead-including-pupils-ap.html

[vashti]

This ruined my day. I am devastated.

[Petit Papillon]

Poor babies... I'm wondering why there are some shit ****s wanting to kill little kids like that... They are freaking innocent... Poor babies...


On the other side. Congrats USA on having easy access to guns. Count how many time something like this happened here in Europe... I was talking about it with my brother. We concluded that the access makes it easier to make that decision to kill someone. I wouldn't even know who to ask to get a gun... I never saw a real gun in my life!
I remember some school shootings in Germany few years ago. The kid had access to guns at home though, his dad had some... So this is just another point in my argument...

[Love'sReject]

I brought up the gun question today on FB and received the usual, unthoughtful and unpersuasive answers most of which were logically lacking: "Because the founding fathers..." or "Defend myself" ad nauseum. I also brought up the question of how often guns have ever actually been USED in legitimate defense. PLUS, even if we grant that guns should be legal, why in the hell does somebody need guns like AK-47's?

[Petit Papillon]

I don't need a freaking gun at all. I'm fine with my pepper spray. Nobody ever even attacked me so I didn't even have an opportunity to try that either... The only people having access to guns should be police and army, that's all. I tell you, if it goes about guns, USA has really some ****ed up law.
And now, wasn't it a 4th big shooting like this this year? Shouldn't you start to ask yourself questions where is the freaking problem? The best is, each of these shootings was because of a different reason, different place, different people, yet it all comes to one thing. Those psychos could buy guns like fresh bread.

[Love'sReject]

Even if everyone had access to mental health care, I don't think psychos are a majority of the killings: I actually think most are with motives like revenge or sheer hatred (I don't think hatred at all counts as mental issues; my point here is, the biggest cause of gun violence is NOT psychos contrary to what most simple-thinking Americans think it is, but rather, bad decisions made by hateful or vengeance-seeking citizens). Basically, since "hate" isn't a mental illness, most perpetrators will slip even through background checks because you can't predict them acting out a natural feeling (everybody hates but most of us don't act out our hatred in ways like murder).

Frankly, I don't know why we need guns, either; to build up arsenals for a compound in case of martial law and then take on the government? to look cool? to live "Death Wish"?

Now, as far as school shootings, that's almost invariably an issue of psychotic guys, don't get me wrong. But since school shootings don't constitute a majority of gun crimes..

[Petit Papillon]

I was generalizing. But to be honest, people killing 20 poor little babies are real monsters. I am against death penalty, but I seriously hope for justice for them. Death must not be it. I don't know what, but justice.

[Hotaru]

The defense I've heard most often is just because you put harsher restrictions on guns doesn't mean it will make a difference. Drugs are illegal but people still get and sell them so what difference are we looking to make here? The people who shouldn't have them will still get them one way or another while the people who might use them to protect themselves will have a harder time getting them.

I'm reminded of a story I read a while back. A young woman was at home alone with her baby, I believe the father had passed away recently or was a soldier. Two men tried to get in through her front door so she put her baby in the bedroom, shoved furniture up against the door, and called 911. While she was on the phone, she grabbed a gun and asked, "If they get in here, can I shoot them?" The 911 dispatcher answered, "I can't tell you to shoot them or not to shoot them but once they are over your threshold, you do what you need to in order to protect yourself and your child."

The first guy shoves his way in and she blows him away, deader than a doornail. The other guy ran.

[Love'sReject]

I HATE that argument, no offense. Child porn happens no matter how much you outlaw it; should society stop enforcing it? Gang violence is illegal but one way or the other, it'll still happen; should we just legalize it? Fact is, you can't just use the improbability of completely stopping a particular crime from keeping it illegal.

And yes, that's merely a story perhaps with some historical basis; but most gun owners A) keep their guns in inaccessible areas especially since they have to with kids B) there's no TIME C) most crimes in the home are never solved with gun ownership

[Petit Papillon]

I've heard the same story. Probably because it's one of very few stories that "defend" guns. Trust me. In Europe the only guns we have here are either on police station, in army, or illegally somewhere dunno where, but the great majority of people never even heard a gun shot... Why is that? And we have people breaking into houses too. Hmm.

All this is bullshit. Civilians don't need guns and by having them at home, they create an opportunity for a situation like this one today. End of story.

[Love'sReject]

I'd rather get shot, though, than stabbed but that's not wholly relevant.

My biggest issue is, besides "robbers" in statistically unlikely situations, WHO do us Americans think guns will be used to protect us from? I chalk it up to stupid naive "V for Vendetta" politics: Kids and foolish adults see that stupid ****ing film and then think someday "omgz :O we'z gonna haz martial law" and think they'll use guns to take on an entire army and a government that can't possibly come about in American society (face it, the true, full-fledged dictator in America is essentially impossible; the country is too Constitutionally-bound).

[Hotaru]

I HATE that argument, no offense. Child porn happens no matter how much you outlaw it; should society stop enforcing it? Gang violence is illegal but one way or the other, it'll still happen; should we just legalize it? Fact is, you can't just use the improbability of completely stopping a particular crime from keeping it illegal.

You are horribly missing my point and your comparison is moot. Child porn != defensive weapon...

Fact is, guns can be used for defense or offense. You remove the right to carry guns, all you are doing is removing the defensive portion. Guess what? The guys you are worried about will still be carrying them. Good luck trying to reason with a psycho carrying an automatic.

And yes, that's merely a story perhaps with some historical basis; but most gun owners A) keep their guns in inaccessible areas especially since they have to with kids B) there's no TIME C) most crimes in the home are never solved with gun ownership

Perhaps with some historical basis? When I say "story" I mean "read it in the news". So yes, it has "historical basis".

Also, most isn't "all", I'm fairly certain those who have used guns to defend themselves would tell you to shut up.

My biggest issue is, besides "robbers" in statistically unlikely situations, WHO do us Americans think guns will be used to protect us from?

Um, people like that nut who killed 27 people?...

[Petit Papillon]

There is police to protect, not other civilians. And see, 300 policemen couldn't stop him from killing those kids. How about that?

[Hotaru]

There is police to protect, not other civilians. And see, 300 policemen couldn't stop him from killing those kids. How about that?

There were 300 policemen attending school that day?!?! :o

Should I ask why 300 policemen were spending the day at that elementary school?

[Petit Papillon]

Plus, you must have some scary people there, scary criminals walking around with guns... No wonder you need to protect yourself by having your own gun -_- Geez... Talking to a wall.