Date with a Turkish guy

[Tiay]

I'm sorry vashti, I guess I just need a bit of repetition.

hm, well, we'll just have to see, then, fras.., and I'll just have to try not getting too attached.. I mean, worst thing that can happen is that we stop hanging out and going to the gym gets a bit awkward for a while, I hope.

[the_blue_angel]

i dont understand you. you had oral sex and probably you'll whole sex. so, what is the problem
sorry i dont understand. you can ask me what you wanna learn and i tell you. ok baby? you are in a relationship enjoy it you take it more seriously

[Mish]

Tiay, Imam called. They are waiting for your conversion

[Tiay]

Tiay, Imam called. They are waiting for your conversion

why do all the good ones religious?...

[Mish]

why do all the good ones religious?...

Maybe they have more incentive to be good?

[lovesjoyajm]

I don't know how to say this without sounding super defensive, combative, or petulant, but that's really not what I'm going for.

In my experience, non-religious people are often much, much more judgmental and closed-minded than religious people. It's really frustrating that religious people are the ones who get pegged as such.

[vashti]

I don't know how to say this without sounding super defensive, combative, or petulant, but that's really not what I'm going for.

In my experience, non-religious people are often much, much more judgmental and closed-minded than religious people. It's really frustrating that religious people are the ones who get pegged as such.

I tend to consider the hard core atheists and the hard core religious folk to be two ends of the same stick.

[lovesjoyajm]

I went out for drinks with two girls from a class I'm taking and one of them told stories from her online dating experience, including: "I went out with a guy, and right before the date I found out from his profile that he was ROMAN CATHOLIC!! And then he told me he went to CHURCH!! What the **** am I supposed to DO in that situation?"

The exciting part was the end of the monologue when she actually said, "wow, I always think religious people are closed-minded, but I guess I'm being the closed-minded one!" I wish more people realized that.

Sorry Tiay, I don't want to turn this into a religious discussion. I'm done.

[Mish]

oh yeah, in bed. So we're at the oral sex stage.

I asked him if I could stay over at his (it's a lot closer to where the bus leaves from) and he agreed, but then didn't want to because his turkish friends might find out and apparently staying over is unusual in turkey

So, he is okay with having oral sex with you, but he is not okay with his Turkish friends finding out about you staying over.



Something to think about...

[Tiay]

Maybe they have more incentive to be good?

I knew I was totally asking for that one when I wrote that, but I didn't think anyone actually would

Of course as an atheist I don't think that religious belief makes you be more 'good', but that is a topic for another thread.

lovesjoyajm; of the qualities I mentioned (hairstyle, gender, dress sense, religion) I think religion is one of the least 'petty' things in that list.
plus, he might possibly believe that I am a dirty heathen, but I, I am the one who's being overly judgemental? Seriously?


and while I see that extremely religious people and extremely atheistic people are definitely on opposite ends of the same stick, I'd like to point out that in another sense they are very different; Ask an atheist what it would take for them to change their minds and they will likely be able to come up with a list of things that they would take as proof of gods existence. Ask a religious person what it would take to prove god's nonexistence to them, and they are likely to say that they *know* or have *faith* that god exists and that no evidence will ever change that. And that is a fundamental difference in method of thinking.

oops, right, enough of the religion debate- I couldn't help myself, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

So, he is okay with having oral sex with you, but he is not okay with his Turkish friends finding out about you staying over.



Something to think about...

yeah, made me think too. To be fair, he said he didn't care what they thought, just that he didn't want to 'risk' them gossiping to people back home.

[Mish]

Of course as an atheist I don't think that religious belief makes you be more 'good',

It doesn't make you be more good, but it gives you an incentive to try. For example, I like to cycle in general, but I have more incentive to cycle when it doesn't rain.

yeah, made me think too. To be fair, he said he didn't care what they thought, just that he didn't want to 'risk' them gossiping to people back home.

Fair enough, although there is still a double standard. He wants to date, but he doesn't want people back home to find out he is dating. What will happen when he will want a girlfriend, but he will not want people back home to find out he has a non Muslim girlfriend?

[Tiay]

It doesn't make you be more good, but it gives you an incentive to try. For example, I like to cycle in general, but I have more incentive to cycle when it doesn't rain.

good point- a belief in heaven/hell certainly doesn't discourage anybody from doing good. However, if it rains, it makes sense not to cycle. However, my lack of belief in heaven/hell does not discourage me from doing good nor does it logically make sense to stop doing good, unlike cycling in the rain which is dangerous because of the increased risk of injury. After all, I want to live in a society where I am treated well, so it makes sense for me to treat others well, also.
Plus, I know this argument has been done to death, but still- how truly 'good' is someone who's only being good in order to get a reward or avoid punishment, in comparison with someone who's actions are just as 'good' but who does them without thinking there will be a reward or punishment?

Fair enough, although there is still a double standard. He wants to date, but he doesn't want people back home to find out he is dating. What will happen when he will want a girlfriend, but he will not want people back home to find out he has a non Muslim girlfriend?

hey, I admit my family poked fun at the fact I was dating him... but it's not like they're judging me, so I can't claim to understand what that would be like.
I guess that's a sign that he expects this thing to end when college ends, and I was expecting that anyway, so I don't mind. I would've preferred to sleep in a double bed though...

[Mish]

Plus, I know this argument has been done to death, but still- how truly 'good' is someone who's only being good in order to get a reward or avoid punishment, in comparison with someone who's actions are just as 'good' but who does them without thinking there will be a reward or punishment?

I think all of us act in accordance with punishment / reward (both Religious and non Religious people). Be it feeling better about yourself to a genuine feeling of empathy you get when helping a person in need. I think it would be fair to say that, punishment / reward governs most of our actions. It's just, with Religious people there is another layer. It's not just something to do to feel better, it's a duty. At least, it's suppose to be. There are lots of hypocrites about.

I guess that's a sign that he expects this thing to end when college ends, and I was expecting that anyway, so I don't mind. I would've preferred to sleep in a double bed though...

Well, as long as you are okay with that.

Personally I wouldn't waste my time on a relationship that I knew would lead to a heartache.

[ecojeanne]

I kind of had a fling (not really coz I’m quite conservative so it takes me a long time to even kiss a guy for lots of reasons) with a guy who was quite religious and tbh those kind of guys just want their bit. The guy I was getting to know assumed I would ‘sort him out’ and was quite forceful when I wouldn’t (i beat him up when he attempted), I don’t recommend getting involved with those sorts of men. They think European women are easy. And likely he will move on to find someone suitable to marry, don’t invest emotionally tiay

[lovesjoyajm]

lovesjoyajm; of the qualities I mentioned (hairstyle, gender, dress sense, religion) I think religion is one of the least 'petty' things in that list.
plus, he might possibly believe that I am a dirty heathen, but I, I am the one who's being overly judgemental? Seriously?

Where did I mention pettiness?

Anyway, I wasn't talking about you specifically. I was referring to the fact that a lot of atheists, when they find out a person they're interested in is religious, will immediately dismiss them as "too stupid", and more often "closed-minded". I hear that quite a lot. It's ironic.

Sure, plenty of religious people, whether fanatic or moderate, will not pursue a relationship with a non-religious person but that is based on fundamental incompatibility (in my opinion). I dunno, at least if a religious person dumps you/rejects you based on religion, you are generally pretty clear on the reasons. The idea of being rejected for my religion on the basis that "religious people are too closed-minded/stupid" makes me angry. There are just as many hypocritical atheists as believers.


Ok, I said I was done, and now I really am. Anyway Tiay, I'm not accusing you of being closed-minded. I was just venting at the preconceptions in general.