Helping someone with Depression

[ellie]

It's not that he is "refusing".

He is in a condition where he feels he can't pull himself together. It does sound ridiculous, and it is, but that is exactly how it is. You don't choose to "act" depressed. It's a mental state. He probably, deep inside, knows he looks like a fool for not making an effort whatsoever to improve his situation, but when you are in that condition everything is clouded. It's as if you're constantly wearing shades and as long as you're wearing them nothing will ever look bright. You are in your own little world and you feel drained of energy.

You need to take off those glasses, snap out of the vicious circle.

And yes, you need to do it yourself, no one can take off the glasses for you, you need to want to take them off yourself. But other people can help you realize you're actually wearing them, because most of the time you don't even realize you're wearing them.


Sorry if that didn't make any sense, it's the best way I can explain.

[Disillusioned]

People who have a chemical imbalance CAN'T help it Disillusioned. It's been scientifically proven.

Speak loud enough for your limitations and they'll be yours. It's a bold claim to say something is scientifically proven when it's an inexact science. Biology is individual and "can't" isn't what I would consider an appropriate word and seems to imply everybody fits in the same jacket. There are levels and degrees of chemical imbalance therefore some can't fight it on their own but they can make efforts to help others help themselves. Sitiuational depression can be fought, as can clinical depression. The fight can't always be won on your own but being proactive is a choice. Sitting on the couch is a choice. Eating fast food is a choice. If you don't try, of course it can't be done. An existential challenge forces you into a mode of desperation where you are damn-well motivated if you want to go on living and this can cause a paradigm shift.

When you have a cold you can't just make the cold go away with the wave of your hand and forcing a change of the way your feeling.

A wave of the hand is easy. I never said that nor did I imply it was easy. It also, as I just stated above, has to do with degrees of imbalance and level of self-control, the latter of which can be improved, the former can benefit.

There are steps and processes you take.

OMG! That goes without saying. I fail to see where I argued this, in fact I think I outlined some steps.

People who have chemical imbalances are like mother nature. You don't know what it's like unless you are chemically imbalanced.

Should I take this as an assumption that you think I'm a balanced person? I never said anyone can do it, I said it's possible. I've done it, many of my freinds have done it, many without drugs. It's like being an alcoholic, you're always an alcoholic but you fight it, not go along with it. The steering wheel comment is a matter of free will to change your own attitude and it can be done, not that it's always enough. I spent most of my life depressed, now I fight depression. I feel it hovering around the edges trying to creep in and it takes concentration and constant effort not to allow it to run my life but you can bet your ass it's there and it's a miserable state to lapse into and really sticky to get out of. I don't disagree with you necessarily but I feel you oversimplified it. Degrees, conditions, individuality, environment and many other factors all play a part and are different for everybody.

[Disillusioned]

I don't think you are an "angel" for tolerating this.... you have your own motivations and your own payoffs. You might want to explore that.

Interesting point.

[CocoChanel]

The reason I said that is because you said...

A person who is depressed has to stop catering to their depression and start fighting it. The brain will balance itself if given a chance but if you keep wallowing nothing changes.

and that's not always true. Just because it worked that way for you doesn't mean it will work that way for him. Sounds like you went through a mild depression. No I wasn't suggesting that you are balanced, don't be a smart ass. there are different levels of chemical imbalances.... I'm suggesting that you may not have experienced the level I'm referring to.
------------------------------------------------
And Vashti I don't think it's fair for you to say she has her own motivations and payoffs for tolerating him. You questioning her character and reasoning. Why even take it there? Why can't she be a woman who wants to be with her man and help him get better.

[vashti]

Because human nature dictates that people are self-preserving unless they are emotionally unhealthy.

My best guess as to why someone unmarried would tolerate this for a prolonged period of time is that they gain a sense of self esteem by telling themselves they will "rescue" the mentally unbalanced person, and then they will get to be a hero for sticking by their side if said person actually DOES improve, and of course the formerly unwell person should be indebted to her.

Conversely, if the mentally unbalanced person never gets better, then she will get to be a martyr who suffered silently and stood by her man. Then she will get people to say ridiculous stuff like "you are an angel!". <-- another source of self esteem for someone who doesn't want to put forth the effort in earning it through self improvement.

It's a win-win arrangement, you see.

Just my 2 cents.

[CocoChanel]

Yeah I knew that. My point is why go there though. You guys should just learn to give advice on the subject at hand and not assume the worse in everyone's character.

Blah... never-mind. People are just judgmental. Muffin Princess... if someone wants to call you an angel and give you kudos because you are helping someone... there is nothing wrong with that. I see no reason to assume the worst about your reasoning because you've given no reason for anyone to go there.

[vashti]

Yes, muffin! By all means, you should be applauded for risking your own emotional health over a guy that hasn't fully recovered from his ex, and with whom you don't have all that much time invested! You will go straight to heaven! Kudos for you!

[CocoChanel]

There you go See how easy that was!

[Disillusioned]

The reason I said that is because you said...

A person who is depressed has to stop catering to their depression and start fighting it. The brain will balance itself if given a chance but if you keep wallowing nothing changes.

and that's not always true. Just because it worked that way for you doesn't mean it will work that way for him. Sounds like you went through a mild depression. No I wasn't suggesting that you are balanced, don't be a smart ass. there are different levels of chemical imbalances.... I'm suggesting that you may not have experienced the level I'm referring to.

It hasn't "worked", it's more of a constant effort, really. So I guess I was a bit hasty with my words in that regard. It's just that the subconcious doesn't get enough respect and that's where the problem gets compounded into the spiral. You believe what you tell yourself and no matter how unbalanced you are there is a degree of control to exercise there and it takes practice before you can get good at it and really notice the effects but they become more pronounced with persistance and time.

[Muffin Princess]

Thanks for your advice everyone, but Vashti, I think you're being unfair. I didn't come here for kudos or a self esteem boost or anything, I came here because I wanted advice on how to help someone I care deeply about. As I said, I didn't know about his depression until we'd been together for about a month, as he thought he was over it, and we'd been friends for about three months previously to that, so I didn't pick him up as a charity case or anything. I had already fallen for him by this point, we work really well together.

The first time we met, it was as if I'd known him for years, we instantly clicked and that's only ever happened with one other person in my life so not only would I be a fool to myself to run away from him the second he told me he was having problems, but that would also be a very wrong way to treat him and not what he deserves at all.

So those are my reasons why I'm staying with him.

He doesn't talk about it with anyone else and hardly anyone knows about it, so I won't get "hero" status or "martyrdom" from any outside parties as they don't even know about it, that is completely not the reason I am sticking by him. I care about him deeply and it hurts me to see people I care about in this sort of a state. I don't know why you're having such a hard time believing that I'm not in this for a reward and you're suggesting that depressed people don't deserve to be in a happy relationship. Surely everyone has their problems? If we spent our time looking for a perfect person with no problems or anything, then we'd stay alone forever.

He went to his martial arts class on Thursday and thoroughly enjoyed it and he's going to go twice a week. I've heard that any sort of exercise is good for depression as it releases endorphins and makes you feel good about yourself, so hopefully this is a positive step in the right direction for him.

[CocoChanel]

It definitely is a step in the right direction. You have no idea! It's good for his health, his mind and his goal to lose weight. Oh wow I'm really excited for you two! Keep up the good work Muffin and Boyfriend!

[IndiReloaded]

Okay. I was waiting to see if you are still posting to this thread.

First off, I think its pretty normal for people to experience depression at times in their life. Shit happens: death, divorce, job loss, etc. Some handle it better than others, for various reasons that aren't really relevant to this thread. I'm sure you can google and read up on all sorts of opinions that are out there. But pysch is def a soft science, there are few laws that apply to everyone.

I have been mildly depressed, so has my husband. So has almost every adult I know. Ask Vash, Giga, Cam, Lite, Carl, Miso... any of us who have been on this rock for a significant amount of time and gone through some of life's shit. They will tell you the same. Like I said, I happen to think its a normal life experience that is over-compensated for in our society with drugs and therapy. There a lack of tolerance for unhappiness that is just ridiculous in our society. I know Vash agrees with this b/c we've discussed it before.

I do agree with the idea you may be enabling him and possibly being co-dependent. In the sense you might get some satisfaction at the idea of 'rescuing' him, but that is just another 'diagnosis' and what is lacking in this thread, so far, are actual IDEAS for you to try.

He went to his martial arts class on Thursday and thoroughly enjoyed it and he's going to go twice a week. I've heard that any sort of exercise is good for depression as it releases endorphins and makes you feel good about yourself, so hopefully this is a positive step in the right direction for him.

This^ is exactly what you need to start encouraging. The thing that I find helps the most is ROUTINE. Get him on a schedule of daily activities that lead to a sense of accomplishment at the end of the day. Starting with bedtimes and wake times. Hound him to go to bed at a consistent time, I suggest 10pm. Call right before bedtime and insist he do so. Call him in the am and tell him to go for a 30 min walk.

Put him on a schedule. I'm serious, this will work. He's a guy, so he will listen if you prod him a bit. He may balk at first b/c you are challenging him, but this is part of the process. Suck it up for a while. If you aren't on a schedule for yourself, you will also benefit. Give this about a month. Its known that if you can stick to a routine for about 30 days, it will become habit.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

[Disillusioned]

^I agree with the above but feel caution should be exercised with prudence. Personality plays a big part in how he deals with the help he gets. Push him to hard too fast and there may be resentment. Just something to consider before you decide to put in the effort as it may be misunderstood. If he's going to karate twice a week, that's a really good start. Personally, I think the next step would be to get a hold of the weed situation and if he's going to smoke, it's best to wait 'till evenings, not to mention maybe cutting down to weekends and eventually to special occasions, if he doesn't want to give it up completely. If he doesn't have one he should write a resume just to have one if nothing else. It's the principal that the steps are being taken to build a launch platform. If you take all the steps together it can overwhelm anybody but progress made by baby steps is cumulative.

[vashti]

As I said, I didn't know about his depression until we'd been together for about a month, as he thought he was over it, and we'd been friends for about three months previously to that, so I didn't pick him up as a charity case or anything. .

If you had any clue as to how little time this actually is, you would run for the hills.

some people have to learn the hard way, so have fun rescuing this guy...

[kenneth1975]

Why not just make things easier on yourself & leave him?