Ruined my chances for the future I wanted with my ex

[JessieGrey]

It's a pretty big red flag to me when someone professes their love after only a little while of knowing each other. Sam told me he loved me and then I felt like there was pressure to reciprocate. Eventually I did, and yes, I did love him, as in care muchly for him, but it was a fleeting love that dissipated more and more after every dumb mistake he made. I guess I loved what a good time we had together and how much chemistry we had on a surface level. But he had a lot of issues (very co-dependent, with bad foresight) that just turned me off. He also reminded me a lot of the dysfunctional characters I used to date--verbally abusive, temperamental pessimists. He got really annoying to have around.

When Jake told me he loved me, I believed him. I wish I hadn't wasted his love on the person I used to be. It sounds pretty strange, but it was almost as if he saw through all my bullshit, mindgames etc..and saw my soul. It was like he loved the person that he knew I was deep down, and one day maybe I'll be able to show him that I am becoming the person without all the facades.

It's interesting to have a relationship in your early twenties. Everyone's changing so much. I'm a firm believer in singledom and I think it's a great thing to be unattached when you're young. But, also, being close with somebody forces you to face what parts of yourself you may not realize you need to change. It's good to have a balance of both--being in relationships and being single.

I'm beginning to wonder if it really is a bad idea to contact your ex. If you said you couldn't trust her and that there were some shadows in your relationship, I wonder if those should be taken into more consideration. I'm conflicted. I believe if you love someone let them go, but I don't believe in passivity. I'd have to know more about the break up and her decision to get into a new relationship, as well as her character and who the other dude is before I could really give determinative advice.

From my example, it took having a relationship with Sam to realize that Jake would be a good fit, as different as we are. However, Jake did like you are doing, he didn't contact me, didn't bug me, no contact at all. Once he found out I was with Sam, he cut me off. Yeah, if he were to see us together, he could probably see that Sam and I weren't meant to be in a relationship, but he didn't intrude. It wasn't his business, really. But, on the flip side, when Jake started a relationship with someone else, I went through and maimed it over and over. (I never said I was proud).

So, I guess there's always a 'final gesture'. Yeah, she's with someone else, and maybe it's bad timing, so if you were to say something it would be best to do so if they broke up. But it sucks because you want the person to realize you've changed, but you don't want to negate that by nagging or being disruptive. Don't you just wish they'd wake up with a light-bulb and say 'hey, I think my ex is near perfect now!' :-P

[cmacattack1]

Yeah it'd be nice if she wanted to give me a second look now. I don't know anything about her boyfriend now and I don't know if they are still dating or not. I assume they are.

She's two years younger than me, enjoying her senior year in college. She's a dreamer, a live in the moment kind of person. I was always told by her that I was always "too practical". Me and her were very alike in the fact that we both weren't very popular in high school and when we hit college we celebrated the social aspect a bit too much. We are both bright and intellegent people but didn't live up to our potential. sSe got kicked out for grades her freshman year, got back in and barely stayed afloat. I stayed at a B- range which isn't bad for a science major, but I want to do pharmacy school and my grades are killing me. We both gave in too much to distractions. I joined a fraternity and partying with them became my number one priority. She lived with sorority girls but didn't want to join them and I always could feel she felt kind of left out and not included even when I tried to bring her to hang out with my friends. She would always prefer to have one on one private moments and I didn't give enough of them to her.

We also were very confident when we first started hanging out. I was a brilliant science major going to be a pharmaceuticals sales, and she was going to go to law school. That facade broke down and we got to know the real people. I had self esteem issues and really had no idea what I wanted to do with my life. She had dependancy issues and very insecure of herself and had no idea what she wanted to do with her life. She told me she wanted to be a stay at home mom and prided herself on her domestic abilities. She's a princess just waiting to be saved to live a comfortable life. And it's very possible: she's a gorgeous blue eyed, blonde with big boobs but is also very intellegent.

We are also very different. She is one that is very adventerous, loves to be outdoors, loves doing spur of the moment things. She loves to stargaze, go for a drive, explore and everything. Her two loves are going to see Dave Matthews Band and the beach and her family's house in Long Beach Island, NJ. I'm not so much that person. I'm very outdoorsy, but I became enamoured in a college life that just consisted of having a good time and partying alot. I did it for five years and seemingly never got sick of it. I played alot of video games, I have a shitton of movies and was a homebody. I did things with her that she liked to do, and was into them, I just never suggested much. And I worred that she may think I'm boring because of it but didn't see it because she was "blinded by love."

She was raised in a perfect family with a loving and providing father, a stay at home mother and seemingly no problems whatsoever in their history. I was raised by a single mother that emotionally abused me growing up (she had little patience trying to handle me by herself) that was in and out of abusive relationships with guys that cheated on her, stalked her, and treated her like garbage. She is currently dating a man and has on multiple occasions admitted to me that she doesn't think she loves him, but he is a good guy and she's getting too old. Right off the bat, my ex and I had two different ideas of love.

She's from a town that is known for being very wealthy but her family isn't as well off as they are, although they are still doing okay. Her friends are spoiled princesses that can just fly off on a two week vacation on a whim and she hung out with them because they were friends but hated how materialistic they were (even though she's a bit of a princess too). Her friends hang with a shady crowd that do coke and party alot, and she feels even weirder with them because the year she got kicked out she was a rebel and dated a coke dealer that cheated on her. And the coke dealer is still good friends with her friends. So home for her is not a fun place to be.

School is her escape. Her freshman year roommate became her best friend and continues to be today. They communicate through email, facebook, texts, and phone calls multiple times a day. Seemingly whenever a thought pops into each other's head. When me and my ex began dating, her best friend went away for six months abroad. During this time, she would express how her best friend was great but because they shared a room together her friend was more of a toxic friend: her friend's influence negatively influenced my ex's behavior. This should have been a sign that she was immature, that she was blaming her friend for things she was doing wrong. But that wasn't the lifestyle she wanted: partying all the time and hooking up with random guys like her toxic friend was doing and thought she had it all with me.

Anyway, when her friend was back in the picture was already when things were downhill for us. She missed her toxic best friend so much it was a complete 180 and she did everything again with her. I'm 100 percent certain that her friend talked her into breaking up with me, and my ex's new boyfriend now is best friends with her best friend's new boyfriend. So it makes sense, they can double and do everything together. I'm out of the picture and it's happily ever after.

When her best friend was gone, she latched on to me and depended on me greatly. To call, to text, to send her stuff in the mail to make her feel loved and important. I was caught up with my issues and took a stubborn stand against her requests because then it just felt like I was obeying her. I wouldn't tell her what was bothering me and no matter how many times I told her it wasn't her, she took it that way. There were instances where I'd be hanging with her and I'd be quiet and distant and she'd be upset that I wasn't being fun that day. There were times where she asked "why won't you have sex with me? I've never had this problem with other guys." That's how wrapped up I was. The more she pushed and prodded, the more closed up I became. I didn't deal with my issues but instead distracted myself with paryting and my friends, leaving her to feel like less of a priority.

It continued until she got sick of it. I'm not very hopeful because as girls tend to do, they become detached long before the end and then when they are ready to end it, they are already moved on. I bothered her mercilessly for a week and periodically after the break up until I found out she had a new guy. That's when I stopped talking to her.

She's just very dependant on having somebody there. I feel like as long as this guy can give her what he wants, no matter how good he looks (I've been told he's less better looking), as long as she is happy with this, I am going to be a distant memory. Plus, with her quick jump to a new relationship she doesn't feel like she is wrong and I will always be the villan. I will always be the reason why she made her decisions and was a victim.

[IndiReloaded]

I'm going to pipe in very briefly here, b/c Colin has pretty much covered it.

Jess, the only thing I will caution is this: just because you can explain the psychology of it doesn't mean you truly 'get it'. My impression from your story is you are bouncing b/t two guys because you are looking for solutions from them that really need to come from yourself.

I would counsel you to date neither one for a while. If this idea turns your bowels to water, I would strongly encourage you to look into that dark bellybutton space and find out why. It will take some courage, but I suspect your real answers are there. Your relationship issues are a symptom, not the problem.

Do that successfully, and your flighty nature should level out. You will know clearly what you bring to the table and what outcomes you are looking for in a relationship.

Good luck.

[JessieGrey]

I'm going to pipe in very briefly here, b/c Colin has pretty much covered it.

Jess, the only thing I will caution is this: just because you can explain the psychology of it doesn't mean you truly 'get it'. My impression from your story is you are bouncing b/t two guys because you are looking for solutions from them that really need to come from yourself.

I would counsel you to date neither one for a while. If this idea turns your bowels to water, I would strongly encourage you to look into that dark bellybutton space and find out why. It will take some courage, but I suspect your real answers are there. Your relationship issues are a symptom, not the problem.

Do that successfully, and your flighty nature should level out. You will know clearly what you bring to the table and what outcomes you are looking for in a relationship.

Good luck.

The interjection is welcomed!

I'll admit I did fluctuate between the two for a while, but mostly in my head. I never left one to date another, leave him and go back. I broke up with Sam and mused about a relationship with Jake again. We would talk about it and then I would end up staying/going back to Sam. I haven't dated Jake in over a year.

It doesn't make me sick to think about not dating either. It makes my bowels turn to even think about Sam, to be truthful. I do not need a relationship to be happy, successful or entertained. I don't need either of these men to be fully functional and complete. I'm not relying on co-dependency, I would accept just being independent. My feelings for Jake are strong, but as I've learned, that doesn't mean that we are meant to or need to be together. So I've stepped back and am letting it be.

I'm not the type that looks for love or a relationship or even a fling with such immediacy as I used to. I don't look singledom in the face and turn away.

And again, I was flaky and flighty, whereas now I make more solid decisions that are much more grounded than the compulsiveness of my past. Not perfectly healthy, but more mature than what I used to do.

-Jessie

[cmacattack1]

You are growing. Keep going forward. There is still much to be learned. It will only make you better for Jake or your next choice.

I think it all depends on what you ultimately want. Do you want to be single, or do you want to be in a relationship with somebody? If you want to be single EXCEPT if Jake wanted to be with you, that could mean that you are kind of just idolizing what you had in the past with him. I know I want to be in a relationship with somebody because I value what I can share with that somebody more than being on my own and doing what I want when I want. Not to say that I will just jump into something with the first thing that falls my way but I'm prepared if I feel that way about the other person.

The only way to guarentee 100 percent on your end is that you know what you want before you enter something and not have somebody "change your mind".

[JessieGrey]

I typed an entire response and it was deleted.

Basically:
I'm interested in your thoughts on being single OR being with Jake.
I also said that I have talked with Jake in the past few days but didn't mention it because I wasn’t sure where it was going. We agreed to talk in a month to reevaluate where things stand between us. We agreed to not speak until then. By giving this a month before we tried to resume things, it would show him that I’m not going to run away without a moment’s notice.

I don't know if this is a good idea. I’m beginning to feel a big like the bitch whose reputation will continue to precede her. I mean, we talked for a while, and Jake obviously still feels strong emotions of regret, shame, guilt and mistrust towards me that permeate his feelings and actions towards me, even now. I’m beginning to feel very defeated and put down, like communicating with Jake will not (hate saying never) be easy, and that he will not be able to love me again like he tried to years ago. I'm know thinking about 'regaining' his love (whether it is active or dormant-i don't know), so that's a little bit of forward-thinking. Those aren't my motives, just let, but they are ones to think about...since much of what we talk about it our future. However, I am at a position where I wonder how healthy it is to keep proving and validating myself as of now, as he flaunts the upper hand as the one who was hurt in the past. It's a subtle pain--not a blatant screaming match of how ruinous I was-- but underpinnings, like an aura.

There was more but that is the gist.

[cmacattack1]

What I don't understand is the the whole time table thing. There is no set guidelines that have to be followed for a relationship between you two to work, and I don't think that setting a month without talking is going to really help with your "evaluation" of it. He's knows you want in and is keeping you hanging on. He knows he has the upper hand (well maybe not blatantly, but I'm sure he feels a little in control). I mean let's face it, aren't you badly looking forward to the end of that month?

He either feels for you or he doesn't. If he doesn't know how he feels, that's okay, but he needs to figure them out before he tries to talk to you about everything. I know you feel beat up and put down because of everything you've done in the past, but as long as you really learned from it, it's okay to let that go. You can't change what has happened and it's done. It's almost like he is trying to remind you of it so you won't forget it and let it hammer at you.

I know he was hurt by anything but if there is any hope for a future between you two, he is going to have to let the past go as well. If he learned anything from it, he'd be able to recognize that you haven't changed. The only way you guys would work is if there was a fresh start. And that's why most exes never work out, those issues are too much for some people to overcome.

[JessieGrey]

As I've never really done something like this before--taken time to work things out with an ex--what is a feasible and healthy way of doing so? I mean, do we just wait it out and see? or do we sit down and have long discussions? or do we jump right into it, going on dates and having fun?

He seriously doesn't believe that I will still be around, and that's why we set the month thing. I don't blame him for not putting trust into my actions with him, because he's opened himself up many times only to be rejected again...(for reasons as explained earlier)

I guess time will heal the wounds, and he will be able to trust me again someday. But as of now, when I'm the one with "something to prove", I begin to feel like a bit of a puppet.

[cmacattack1]

I wish I had the answer for you. I feel that you guys should start dating again, doing fun things and rediscovering what you guys liked about each other in the first place. If you take it slow and not rush in, you will be able to recognize each other and how much they have changed and if the changed two of you aren't compatible, you won't be deeply involved and can call it it quits. If you guys are compatible, then you guys can decide to take it to another level and then maybe address some issues you may have had in the past.

If you just start off with long conversations and talks about the past right from the get go, I think that kills the momentum and takes away from the fun and excitement a relationship is supposed to bring. That's why it's important to be resolved with the past issues beforehand on both parts. If not, you won't be 100 percent available to put towards the new relationship. And if that's the case then time apart until those issues can be put to rest are all you can do.

He's gotta be able to forgive you and accept he made mistakes too, and you have to forgive yourself for this to be able to move forward. And it's gotta be a collective effort. You both gotta turn your submarine keys at the same time.

[IndiReloaded]

I wish I had the answer for you. I feel that you guys should start dating again, doing fun things and rediscovering what you guys liked about each other in the first place. If you take it slow and not rush in, you will be able to recognize each other and how much they have changed and if the changed two of you aren't compatible, you won't be deeply involved and can call it it quits.

Jess, I don't understand the whole month waiting thing either. To prove what? Is this being driven by you (masochistic) or him (controlling)? Either way, it seems very contrived.

I don't see why you can't do exactly as Colin said and just go lightly with each other. Its like you are both seeing this as an all-or-nothing situation. Why? What is the urgency? This isn't exactly life and death. Both of you are taking this whole thing waaay too seriously. You seem intelligent. Is it possible you are over-thinking all this? Lighten up.

[JessieGrey]

or him (controlling)?

I'm a pretty light spirit, easy to get along with and quick to relate to people, but he is quite heavy with deep and unabiding feelings--both ones of love, and ones of pain--he's a very steadfast and quite serious person.

These contrived measures are mostly FOR him (for security) but developed and driven by the both of us. He says he wants to be sure that he doesn't invest in me before he knows that I will not flee on a whim (which is so 2 years ago.) This is another, more material, way of showing the change.

I feel a lot of compassion towards him, and do want to make things right, so this is definitely not to just steep in drama.

He very much likes steadiness and dependability, so these are just, essentially, precautionary measures.

[JessieGrey]

I wish I had the answer for you. I feel that you guys should start dating again, doing fun things and rediscovering what you guys liked about each other in the first place. If you take it slow and not rush in, you will be able to recognize each other and how much they have changed and if the changed two of you aren't compatible, you won't be deeply involved and can call it it quits. If you guys are compatible, then you guys can decide to take it to another level and then maybe address some issues you may have had in the past.

If you just start off with long conversations and talks about the past right from the get go, I think that kills the momentum and takes away from the fun and excitement a relationship is supposed to bring. That's why it's important to be resolved with the past issues beforehand on both parts. If not, you won't be 100 percent available to put towards the new relationship. And if that's the case then time apart until those issues can be put to rest are all you can do.

He's gotta be able to forgive you and accept he made mistakes too, and you have to forgive yourself for this to be able to move forward. And it's gotta be a collective effort. You both gotta turn your submarine keys at the same time.

Colin, that sounds wonderfully idealistic! But my concern, as I mentioned today, is that it will not get to that point. I've ruined the hopes of just jumping in without flotation devices. Now Jake is so wary that he needs assured validation, basically in writing!

It does have to be a collective effort, as with all relationships. I like the Seinfeld reference. But, for now, there's such an imbalance that getting to that state of equilibrium seems far-fetched.

[cmacattack1]

Wow, a girl who likes Seinfeld? And you are single?!

Idealistic or not, that is the only thing that I can think of to work in this particular situation. And it doesn't sound realistic at this particular point and time with all the issues you guys have. I'm just trying to help and I think that is what is necessary for this to work. Getting to that point is something that is on your guys end and something that isn't very likely...

[JessieGrey]

Maybe it doesn't, but it's still a great goal to keep in mind. What makes it all the more confusing is that we will speak in intervals and then not speak for weeks or a month. Usually it's because he ignores me, but this time it's a mandated thing. I don't know how to do this anymore. I don't even understand the "how" part of analyzing a relationship. Usually it's all about who and why... So that confusion makes me just work with whatever he comes up with, becuase it's some semblance of a future.

Oh and the Seinfeld connoisseurship comes from high school, as it was always on at one of my friends' houses.

[IndiReloaded]

Colin, that sounds wonderfully idealistic! But my concern, as I mentioned today, is that it will not get to that point. I've ruined the hopes of just jumping in without flotation devices. Now Jake is so wary that he needs assured validation, basically in writing!

Jake, as an adult, is fully responsible for his own feelings. Its not for you to satisfy whatever issues he has. Try to remember this and stop bending over for this guy. You are who you are. Its up to him to figure out if you are what he wants, or not. There is something very unhealthy about this whole dynamic, its like you want to keep your claws in him, somehow, but give the appearance of being detached. Its as if you are trying to draw him in with subterfuge about how 'stable' you now are. I hope you can see how strange that is.

I stand by my original suggestion you take a hard look at those thoughts about this guy. The ones that pop up and you quickly sweep under the mental rug--they are there, its quite obvious to an outside 'observer'.

Good luck.