Considering leaving a long-term relationship...

[roku1]

Thanks T&C.

Just so you know, we're both self-employed, we're both bosses of our own businesses. I can find time to be with her, get the house warm for her, make her tea and try keep things tidy... she can't do the same for me. She tells me she's working hard for us but she also tells me how much she enjoys her work and never wants to stop, so I know I play second fiddle because rather than call an end to work in the evening, she stays on her phone or ipad whilst I sit on my own - it's like being single.

She literally gives us about an hour in the evening and when that time rolls around, I am to drop whatever it is that I've been occupying myself with, be it work, a movie, reading, writing etc. She also often works all weekend, literally. Usually Sat/Sun she's out from 7-9am through to evening, so when she is back she's knackered. Knackered but happy, she enjoys what she does and those aren't just brave words. I have so much respect for this energy and commitment to her work but I've been doing this for years now and it isn't very conductive to a healthy relationship!

I'm not playing the 'poor me' card but she started to withdraw around the 2year mark, since then I have tried tirelessly to get us our 'spark' back. To feel like I'm not just someone filling a gap in her life. How is a relationship to progress into marriage without passion?

My OH made a promise to me, that she would satisfy all my needs and desires if I remained faithful to her and told her the truth about ever wanting to leave the relationship. I have kept this end up, but she hasn't. Bottom line, she just isn't a very passionate (re. love) person.

I have worked at this relationship for a long time, that is commitment; off the back of my 'work' my OH has been able to focus on her business, work comes first for her. I come home early to get food ready, tidy etc so she stays late at work. It doesn't happen often the other way round, not unless I get tired of the routine and say so but then I'm a either dictating what she does or neglecting her work commitment (which she makes).

I'm trying not to give up but your point C) is what I'm trying to deal with here, whether we're just going to repeat the cycle again. Last time we had a big fall out, my OH made me promise that we weren't just going to go another 6 months and the split up, that she didn't want to 'waste' any more time. I feel burdened with the issue that if we give this another crack and it fails, will I just be someone who 'wasted her life'? We gave it another crack from that conversation and we're back at the same place.

I wanted to say, 'Yup, let's give it another shot' as soon as she asked me but I don't want to be responsible for prolonging more hurt, my resolve is well and truly shot up!

[dontaskme]

Relationship is always a work in progress but it shouldn't be a struggle to maintain it. It seems to me that your problem with her is cyclical and you can continue to talk and talk until you are all talked out. If I were in your shoe, I would leave and not waste anymore time.

Five years is a long time but if it doesn't work, learn to walk away rather than waste another day, week, month, etc. just because you feel obligated for the reason that you have been together for a long period.

[roku1]

Hi Dontaskme, thanks for that.

We had 'the chat' last night, laid it all out on the table, been here before etc. and we both agreed that it sounded like we're done. We spoke at length about what wasn't making us happy and how sorry we were that it didn't work out. She kept getting petty in parts which I had to keep pulling her back from, it wasn't a 'blame game' moment. She kept on bringing up things about my family she didn't like, how they don't like her etc (not true, my folks have really tried to connect with my OH but when she has her knife into someone she's a nightmare).

It got very emotional as you would expect and ended up with us just hugging for a bit in front of the fire. I said how much I would miss holding her and she said how she knew this would happen. Then she said, why don't we try just making each other happy for the next two weeks? Nothing else but trying to make each other happy. I told her part of me really wanted that but I couldn't end up back in 'that' place - my life has been a shambles this last week, I haven't done a single bit of work, just stared at my computer trying to figure things out. Total emotional wreck!

So, without actively saying 'yes' or 'no', we're on a two week trial. I should have been strong and said 'no' but a part of me really wants to work things out. Will we? I really don't know. I know if I end up back at this place then it's all on my head, I just didn't have the strength to cut off that little bit of hope.

There is a deal breaker!! This morning as I was waking up she said over weekend we'll be making plans for our future, not 'would you like to...?' but 'we will'... alarm bells. I have no issues with her wanting to make plans but there was this underlying lack of consideration which I had explained last night as being one of the things that upset me about 'us'!

Then came the 'B' word... babies!! Now I don't hold anything against her for wanting babies asap, I understand and accept that it's what she wants and her bio-clock is ticking but she wants to schedule them in as if we're going away on holiday. I've always told her that by my mid-30's I'd like to have children but I don't want to live the next 'x' days/months/years of my life counting down to 'B-Day'! That kinda takes away some of the fun of it and, to me, makes time go so much faster!

I also don't understand how we can be having these conversations so fast after we had technically broken up. Does that sound like stable ground for baby-planning?

Yes I want children, no I don't want to be dictated to as to how we have them. Is this rational? The compromise for me is that yes, I want kids in the next couple of years, definitely. Her thoughts are we have a confirmed start date for trying for children, to be adhered to at all costs or she goes (almost a direct quote from her as I got into my car).

I feel a bit overwhelmed by these emotions, from falling out to making up and now, children? We're pretty much on the same level but the ground is shaky.

I'm prepared to give the next two weeks a real shot but this last bit has got me a bit on edge!

[dontaskme]

Baby??? That's a big commitment specially with someone you're not sure to want to have a future with. Don't get pressured into doing it.

Forget about what she wants. The BIG question is, what do YOU want? Figure it out, then take it from there.

[roku1]

Hi again Dontaskme,

I know it's a massive commitment, I never expected this to come up so soon considering the recent events. I don't know whether she's just testing the water or what?

Last night we said that if we could work this out then we'd discuss our future and make plans (a given really) but to bring up babies the day after we broke up and put ourselves on this 2week trial? I'm starting to feel uncomfortable again.

Me... I do want kids but do I want to be making baby dates right now? No, I don't and I told her that I wasn't going to live life counting down 'til the 'mutually agreed date to start having babies'! She said it looks like we have a problem... nail, hit, head!

Life shouldn't be planned out like that should it? Sure she wants to know we'll move forward, so do I, and we both share the want for kids but I don't want it to be calculated and clinical... I want us to live in the 'now' rather than 'future'. I said this last night but I don't think she got it. That's where the bulk of my unhappiness with 'us' has come from; so much working for the future that we don't have a present!

I just don't see how we can go about making such important plans within 24hrs of us technically breaking up!

I also just found out that during our 'two week happy trial' that her mum will be coming to stay in our little box of a house for the second week. This isn't good, I have little time for her mum after she started getting involved in our relationship. I'm going to have to tell my OH that this visit really isn't coming at the right time. I hope that this doesn't cause more friction.

- - - Updated - - -

I think I've just had a moment of realisation... nothing has changed!

We poured our heart's out last night; mutually left each other, somehow got onto giving 'us' one last try, went to bed, woke up and now back where we were in the beginning!

Why would making future plans and 'booking in babies' even come into this two week 'happy' trial?

Am I going mad or have my OH's actions this morning just taken us right back to the beginning i.e. nothing of what was said last night really made any difference?

confused.com!

[daisy123]

Very nice discussion, i think you must listen to your heart.

[dontaskme]

You need to take yourself out of her environment and think. You can't have clarity of what YOU want (and I'm not talking about having a baby here, I am speaking of the bigger picture, YOUR LIFE in general) while she is talking you into giving the relationship another try, her changing to appease you, etc.

BTW, in case you didn't realized, you already answered most of the questions that originate out of your confusion.

[Wakeup]

Hi all… if anyone is still reading this thread I just wanted to add a little more.

Last night my OH was working late and I was reminded how the work comes first for her, as it has done for years.

Whilst lying in bed together, trying to get to sleep, she started talking about some things and whether I had spent any time considering our future. This led to a minor argument which evolved into conversation about our current situation, where I (partly) opened up to her… totally the wrong time and place but she drew it out of me.

I was honest, that I didn’t know what to do and that I loved her, that I care for her more than anyone else in the world but that I don’t know if we can go on the way we are.

I last bought up my issues with ‘us’ in summer 2014, most notably, the lack of intimacy and sex; how I had spent so much time playing second fiddle to her work. It had taken about a year of patience and gentle suggestion before I had to say something. From when I first opened up through to now, she hasn’t taken one bit of action to make things better and yes, I have tried ‘turning things up’ myself – I haven’t just been sat back waiting for something to happen. Nor have I been overwhelming or ‘gung-ho ‘ with my attempts.

Her reason for this, from as far back as 2 years ago, is that “we hadn’t gotten married or discussed marriage, so (my OH) started to withdraw, sexually, from the relationship.”
I just don’t quite understand this...
I thought that intimacy bonded couples and brought them closer together, which leads to marriage, children etc? Not that you should expect marriage and then get intimate?

This sounds like excuses to me, not very good ones. I just don’t think we work on this level, which is a shame as it’s a very important ‘level’ to me.

So, after more chat and a bit of a cry we came to ‘what happens next?’ My OH said that she wanted to ‘reset’ and start over with me, asking whether we could go back to the beginning and try again. She didn’t want us to end.

I told her ‘I didn’t know,’ which is the honest truth. That must have been terrible for her to hear but as much as I love and care for her, I don’t want to ‘change’ her; we shouldn’t have to ‘change’ at all! You can change anyone to fit your needs, shouldn’t a life-partnership be with someone that just ‘fits’?

Now I’m stuck again and don’t know what to do, she wanted a ‘date night’ tonight to spend some time together but I don’t want her to do anything that isn’t natural i.e. I don’t want to feel like she’s trying to win my emotions, I have more respect for her than that and I just want her to be her and to be on the same level. I just want us to be ‘us’ again, like we once were, before she started to ‘withdraw’! Is that ever going to happen? Can this be fixed?

Stop being such a jerk. You keep telling her that you "don't know" what you're going to do and that you "don't think you can go on like this" and other bloody do nothing but cause pain statements that lead to NO WHERE.

Get out of this relationship NOW and stop tormenting one another with your words without action. I responded to this ongoing SAGA way back on page one and nothing has changed from how you have been handling things since post [URL=https://www.loveforum.net/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1[/URL] .

Either get the couples councelling you need to get back the emotional connection (people who work a lot can still be emotionally connected but you two are no where near that dynamic) but you two obviously need a third party professional to get you there. If you don't want to spend the money or put in the effort to make this better then do the humane thing and just end it NOW.

- - - Updated - - -

There has been far much talking and words without action to last a lifetime. Either shit or get off the pot. Councelling or leave because neither one of you know what actions are needed to fix this.

[roku1]

Wow Wakeup, thanks for your startlingly bleak and blunt reply. I wouldn’t call myself a ‘jackass’ for being in this situation. I’ve tried to listen to my heart and deal with this the best way I can. Unfortunately it hasn’t been easy.

For what it’s worth, we had another chat and I said that we had to end. Unfortunately I had nowhere else to leave to so we sat around and chatted, eventually I gave in and agreed to give it another shot. We went out for a drink that night and within minutes my OH was trying to plan future holidays, then our weeknights etc. We inevitably fell out again, total miscommunication as usual. She went off on one and I didn’t have the foresight to reel it in and take control.

We said we couldn’t give up at the first hurdle and decided to have a short break with her leaving to do down south where she could stay at her mother’s whilst attending a few business meetings. Before she left we were meant to have one last meal together which she said she’d cook. I made sure I was home early and she was well behind. Whilst preparing some food she was on the phone making unnecessary work calls, calls that could have been postponed til a little later for her 3hr drive. I offered to help her prepare the rest of the meal only to have her leave it up to me so she could continue to make calls. I pretty much cooked our dinner and spent the rest of our time together washing up, taking care of laundry and preparing our fires. Just as I was finishing off the second fire she came in and said she had to go in a minute (after food) and wanting ‘us’ time. I told suggested she help me finish the fire which took literally two minutes but then our food was ready.

After out meal she had to leave and on her way out she made a remark that really upset me, “shame we didn’t spend much time together but at least you have your fire!”

It shook me how she didn’t realise that out of the hour and a half we had together before she left, she spent all bar 5min (and the time it took her to finish her meal) on the phone with other people – she was even texting when we were eating. That she thought I was the reason for us not spending some quality time together was a painful disappointment. This, at least in part, sums up our relationship; she has no capacity for self-awareness or empathy.

When I was running around trying to help her I was becoming increasingly down and did withdraw into myself. I never had the thought to say something but then again, looking back I really wished that there was no need in the first place.

Moving onto this week and the second night that she was away, we had a late night chat. Not the best time to have a deep conversation but it was the first chance we had when we were on her own. Long story short and she rattled off to me all the things that I had done wrong and my lack of effort. She spoke ill of my family, ignoring the thousands of pounds that they have invested in us in trying to find a home together. She insulted my brother’s fiancé and fully placed all responsibility for our breakdown at my feet. I ended that phonecall an angry single man.

The following morning I woke up to several texts where she apologised for her ‘blip’ in positivity, then blamed her emotions on it being ‘that time of the month’ – a regular affair, we’d often fall out and she’d threaten to leave me around ‘that time’. I go so angry and asked her whether we were part of the same conversation, then asked for her to give me another night in our home so I could pack a few things.

Since then we’re both of the mind-set that we’re over although neither of us have actually said it. Whatever, I have a weekend away coming up and moving in with my parents for a little while. I keep on wanting to give us another chance and to really work on ‘us’ but yesterday morning I wrote down what she had said to me and it makes me so upset and angry, I just don’t think I can live with someone who would try and hammer me into submission like that. She is a spoilt single child who has always had her own way and I so wish I could put up with that.

I know you’re only getting one side of this story but hand-on-heart I have been as honest as I can. I have not been a perfect partner but my only failings (in her opinion) are not giving her the commitment that she has pined after for so long. My only defence to this ‘lack of commitment’ (which I remind her of whenever it’s brought up) is that to be true to both of us, I couldn’t give myself to someone when I didn’t feel secure enough to do so. I wore my heart on my sleeve and we said we’d work at ‘us’ but it keeps on repeating itself. I wanted to feel loved and needed; she wanted a ring and a baby. She needed a ‘yes man’ to do everything she wants; I wanted a woman to make me feel like I was her world. Although she thinks she was doing this, she wasn’t. Although she says she works so hard only for us and our future, she isn’t. She may think so but being intimate cannot only happen on holiday, not when we’re still so young. These should have been the happiest years of our lives and instead we’ve been living in the future, neglecting the ‘now’.

Thank you all for your help throughout this unhappy time (even you Wakeup – your harsh perspective has helped me see things in a different light). I don’t know whether this is really the end of our journey together and I so wish we could work things out but something isn’t letting me give in and say ‘one more time’.

If this is the end then I just hope there’s someone out there who will give her everything I couldn’t, someone who will pander to all her needs and be happy to sit back and let her do her thing. Maybe there will be someone who doesn’t have the responsibilities I do, who can actually share her work? I certainly hope so because after all the pain and frustration, she is still my best friend in the world and someone who I won’t ever stop loving. The memories we made together will forever remain with me and make me smile. I just wish we could have understood each other more.

[Wakeup]

*snipped* Unless you come back and tell us you've been dumb enough to try with her again.

[dontaskme]

Your relationship is at the end of its line. It's in its last breath and death bed quite frankly, learn to let it go man. You are just prolonging your pain and suffering by holding on to something that simply isn't worth the grip anymore.

She's not your best friend either. A best friend won't talk trash about your family.

[roku1]

Well… we’re back on!





Joke! Not really, just making light of this total hell! My OH/ex called me last night with the mind-set that this is all just temporary and that she’s reading a book I gave her and wants to discuss it when she’s finished; that there is light at the end of the tunnel! She’s even invited me up for some supper tonight so we can talk. She said that the late-night call where she told me all those things was just a misinterpretation on my behalf... she has me doubting myself now but regardless of the context those words were said, the facts still remain the same.

I know I have to be strong but this is a nightmare… she is trying so hard to fix us and it’s breaking my heart refusing her efforts. She wants to discuss our issues and work on them together and says that she will work at the relationship (which I believe).

I had to remind her that in the two week ‘happy trial’ that we gave ourselves, where we were meant to just make each other happy and focus on the ‘now’, she booked a business/family trip down south for most of one week, had her mother booked in to stay with us the next (though I’m sure she would’ve cancelled that) not to mention the two huge arguments/splits we had within the first 48hrs!

I know no one said this would be easy but I still love her and she’s still my best friend… shutting her out is killing me. Seeing her being sweet is killing me, that’s the girl I fell in love with.

Sad times. It’s like smothering an adorable puppy with a pillow made of cute dead kittens.

I can't go see her tonight, I will cave and give in to her, I'm too soft when it comes to emotions like this.

Is it best to call a 'no contact' truce for a little while? I'm definitely having to miss on the 'dinner date' tonight, I won't be able to withstand a round of tears. Get tonight out of the way, a weekend away with old friends, return Monday with a fresh head! Sounds like a plan!

[TablesandChairs]

She doesn't sound like the worst person in the world, not by far. By all means, seems like when the pressure is on, she escapes further into her work and other distractions...I wouldn't take it personally, she's probably confused as to how to deal/what to do. She's making effort, but it's not quite good enough. She's trying to plan for the future, which is something she needs to feel good about the present...but you're not giving too much in that regard. It's been five years and she hasn't gotten what she wanted out of this...and neither have you, by the sounds of it. In astrology, they might call it incompatibility - 'Aries and Capricorn don't mix!' or something simplistic like that...but it might just be that simple. You're different. And now that the relationship has reached that point where it's not ruled by lust or emotion...those differences can really start to bite.

Take a breath, give yourself time and space to consider it all...and make a decision. An actual decision. Meandering back and forth without true commitment to fixing the relationship just wastes time.

[Keepingon]

Im with this point of view completely.

5 years IS too long a commitment to just throw away when things become difficult.
I think both parties should really make an effort to attend some couples therapy and learn how to communicate.

The therapy should also clear up your true feelings about the relationship.
When you know for sure, you won't feel any guilt at getting out of the relationship.
On the other hand, if you are able to sort things out, your relationship could emerge stronger and better than ever.

[roku1]

Hi guys. Sorry to keep on adding to this, I’m posting more to vent my frustration than looking for answers.

You have all been so helpful to me over this cr@ppy time and I really hope you understand that your varying POV’s and opinions have made a difference to someone. Thank you for sticking with me. I hope that I can return the favour one day or at least brighten your day by saying that the time you have invested in me HAS helped me greatly and you should be proud of yourselves if just for a few moments, by easing someone’s grief and frustration!

So, we have been apart for a week and although getting on with life has been very tricky, the dust is starting to settle. I had a weekend away with friend’s who offered their support and whose honest opinions were that although it would be best if we could work it out, knowing how intense my (ex)OH can be and how difficult she can be, it was probably a good thing. At one point or another, they have seen what she can be like when she doesn’t get her own way and they don’t like that person. Her public façade is completely different to the real person I’ve been living with so for someone to relate to the bad side of her (we all have them) affirmed some of my confused emotions and self-doubt.

Anyway, last night we had a chat where she said she needed to see me and that I should stay the night with her. She told me that there was something that she had to get off her chest and tell me to my face. I told her that we’d just repeat the last times we did that and that I wasn’t in the right place to see her. With a little more chat she opened up.

Basically she apologised for not listening to me over the years, telling me that she just took me for granted and rather than compromise, she expected me to change. She said that the desire to have a baby and marry was so overwhelming that she used the threat of breaking us up as an attempt to get what she wanted and that she shouldn’t have used ‘that time of the month’ as an excuse.

The list went on and I had to stop her. I said that she wasn’t to blame for all our failings and that she should have more respect for herself, I’ve tried so hard to avoid the blame game and I didn’t want to start it now.

I also said that for her to admit that she was merely toying with me and bullying me when I was trying to work at our relationship was despicable and that I had torn myself apart trying to fix us; that I would apologise for things that I didn’t feel I had to, just to keep us together at times. For her to acknowledge that all the effort was one-sided made me feel awful yet confirmed my frustrations that had grown over the years. So many times I would be working to make things better for us while she concentrated on herself but when I’d speak to her about it she would just get angry with me. What a tool I’ve been to let this slip by for so long!

To hear this, to realise that it was mostly me making an effort and for her to have toyed with me for years, for her to have disregarded my feelings and needs in the relationship, made me so very angry. I had to bring our conversation to an end, it was too much of a mind-melter to continue. I always knew she was spoilt rotten as a child and that unfortunately the ‘spoilt kid’ mentality had stuck with her through adult life but she had always told me that it was me who was spoilt and that I was a ‘drama-person’… I have doubted myself for years because of this, so now I’m not these things and it was all just her mentally hammering my resolve? Wow… I knew she was insecure but this revelation has just blown my mind.

Before we concluded our conversation she started to plead with me again, breaking my heart completely. She told me how she missed me and the little things that would annoy her are now so dearly important and longed for.

She promised me that she would change and that she is actually capable of changing, that she would start to listen to me and work on what I need in our relationship, to be a team again. She said that the times where she screwed up our recent 2 week ‘happy trial’ were blips because she didn’t think our relationship issues were as serious as they actually are and that if we were to try again we would succeed. She said she could see how much I have been trying to make us work and how she feels so bad that she took it for granted, that she thought she could have it all her way and how now she realises how wrong that was of her.

I’m very sad to say this but I told her that I didn’t believe her, that she won’t change forever and that I never wanted her to change in the first place, that we should have just fit, that we don’t fit otherwise this wouldn’t have gone this far. I also told her that where I am now, getting back together seems harder than leaving. Too much pain has been dished out between us and that regretfully, I just don’t feel the same way as I used to… How could I after hearing this confession?

She wants me to go and have a sit-down with her tonight but I am furious. This rollercoaster of emotions has been so very wrong but I’m glad to have heard that my feelings of a one-sided relationship have been confirmed. I’m going to give it more time before I see her. As it stands we are not together, we are separated and no longer a couple. Maybe towards the end of the week I can go see her and say a final farewell before moving a couple more essentials out of our old home.

Can someone really change after something like this? I’ve always thought that if someone acts a certain way for a long period of time, that’s who they really are; you can’t change who a person is on the inside, can you?

If she was really my ‘best and closest friend’, would she have done any the things she’s now holding her hands up for? I know I’ve never bullied or coerced her into doing anything she hasn’t wanted to, hand on heart, not once in all of our 5 years together. I feel totally betrayed.