Considering leaving a long-term relationship...

[roku1]

Me and my partner are about to hit the 5 year mark in our relationship. Out of those 5 years, maybe half of them have seen some pretty tough conflict between us. We’re both very headstrong and stubborn, professional achievers and independent in our own ways. We are also early 30’s and nearing the ‘time’ for children, or at least my OH is.

Going back a couple of years, when we first started living together we had lots of fallout's and intense arguing. So much so that she threatened to leave me on multiple occasions. Most of these we would talk and work things out but some issues were left untouched and to this day haunt our relationship as ‘point scorers’… unfortunately these are mostly her ammunition, I honestly don’t have any retained holdups from the past. I am by no means absolving myself of responsibility for our fallout's, I know very well my flaws and with empathic hindsight I have tried to learn from my mistakes. I learned my partner and how to avoid conflict but unfortunately, it still happens.

Summer of 2014 was very confusing, we almost split several times and spoke very little to work things out. More often than not it would be me returning to apologise for my part in the conflict and we would kiss and make up only to bury the issue. One time after a long period of no intimacy I raised my desire for more contact and said that I was feeling very unloved. This was interpreted as an attack and lead to another almost-split but this time it was me who threatened to leave. She had her reasons for her behavior, not those that I can agree with but I honestly believe she thought she was making the best decision for us.

Since then our love life has been very boring, not even kinky cliché despite my best efforts. I even transformed my body (through the gym) for her but it hasn't improved anything. She just isn’t into what I find sexually interesting and I’m actually a very easy person to please. We have become the stereotypical, British ‘vanilla’ couple. Not something that I ever thought I would end up being before having children. She also doesn't kiss, properly that is. Not teenage tongues all over the place but with passion. Over the years I have tried teaching her very delicately but we’re still not there, I just don’t believe she enjoys it.

That summer saw me seriously consider making a change in my life and I started thinking about what things would be like if I was single. I haven’t seen anyone behind her back but the thoughts were there… only to be crushed by guilt when I came home to her. Unfortunately this disconnect has also seen me lose interest in her physically. I just don’t find her as attractive as I used to. Vain I know but I feel I need these boxes ticked.

Now we’re approaching our 5 year mark and she’s wanting marriage and children – things that I once saw for us but having a hard time picturing now. I feel like we’re still ‘out of sorts’ and I don’t feel fully content. Talking this through with her only lead to more discontent as she says I’m putting her ‘on trial.’ Although my heart feels for my partner, part of me wants to see what else is out there. I know I need to settle this asap one way or another, as I can’t waste her life if there’s no way forward for us.

Recently we had a major fallout that highlighted a big concern of mine, her lack of empathy. My brother who I rarely see (lives in another country) had a baby with his partner just before Christmas. I was due to visit my OH’s family for Christmas this year but had said that if baby arrived I would like to stay with my family, for baby’s first Christmas. I maybe see my brother for a max 2 months/year so maximizing time with him when he is home is essential and I know that once baby is good to travel, he will be moving his family away again. This idea was not met with much enthusiasm and brought about a short spell of conflict before I changed my plans to suit hers. Once away with her family I thought that we would be ok again but this ended on Christmas day when I was given a brief interrogation as to why/when will we be getting married and having children. Talking about these things, surrounded by her family, is not a comfortable situation to be in and needless to say, by Boxing Day we were at each other’s throats again. Even her mother got involved and started asking me what was going on between us, whether there was a hope for us. I felt terrible! Day after Boxing Day and I actually left her, driving off for home but for some reason I couldn't do it to her and returned.

Since then we've been acting as if nothing is wrong and none of these recent issues have been discussed again.

I really don’t know what to do, part of me loves my OH but as she says, maybe I’m in love with the idea of her rather than actually her?

Despite the arguments and emotional anguish, this woman has been my best friend for 5 years and I feel so guilty just writing this. I just don’t know whether she really has just become a friend and no longer the love that I hoped she would be.

I’m seriously considering leaving the relationship but oh so worried that I’m making the wrong decision… I know no one can tell me the answer but any feedback would be very much appreciated.

Thank you for reading such a long post.

R x

[dontaskme]

You are very articulate in describing your relationship with your OH which made it easier, at least for me, to get a clearer picture where you are at currently. I think you already know the answer to your question.

If there is ever a doubt in your mind regarding marriage, then don't jump the gun and proceed out of pressure from your significant other. Additionally, if you are uncertain of your relationship with her and feel like exploring other relationships, I say you should listen to your gut, and do what you feel is right for you. Believe it or not, in the long run, you are doing her and yourself a favor but letting this relationship go.

If you are really unsure, then I suggest you both go to couple's counselling to determine whether your relationship is savable or not.

[roku1]

Hi Dontaskme, thank you for your reply.

I'm not so sure about couples counselling but it's on the cards I guess.

The confusing thing is that as we've left the Christmas fall-out dead and buried, without dealing with it and now moving on, I can see that my OH is trying to make an effort to avoid further confrontation. This is causing so much guilt on my behalf, I almost feel sorry for her for me thinking the way I have been.

The pain and frustration of our last conflict has fizzled and now I'm finding it hard to remember why I wrote this in the first place. Sadly I don't think it will last long, this has happened before and we're just going through a 'good blip' - maybe I should just stow the feelings that brought me here 'til things collapse again?

[dontaskme]

Relationship, if the right one, should not be that difficult. The arguments has been going on for years. The longer you delay the process of breaking up, the more difficult it will be for you to let her go because there will always be this feeling of guilt on the back of your head.

Would she be open to taking a break from the relationship if you told her that there are things you need to sort out in life before making a commitment to marry her?

- - - Updated - - -

And I would like to add also the fact that, if you are no longer physically attracted to your partner, it's a deal breaker. I don't think you should marry or be with someone you no longer desire physically.

[Wakeup]

I suggest that you get personal therapy to help you decide what would be best for you. Your girlfriend obviosly does not even realise the extent of your discontent and councelling may give you the courage you need to be able to spell it out to her rather then just argue and continue in this power struggle you seem to both be embroiled in.
You've always argued your entire relationship and i think its just become a normal eay for the two of you to communicate.

[smackie9]

Forgive me but why did you just waste 5 years on a unhappy, unhealthy relationship? Despite her ruthlessness with career, etc, deep down she is insecure and lacks true self worth or self esteem. Her anxiety is preventing her from leaving you, and sticking with it. You are passive, and codependant and are too afraid of the unknown to walk away. Things have never worked out because you both are not emotionally connected. You just exist with each other, that's why this relationship has always been kind of "dead". Making yourself physically more attractive, doesn't help with her emotional connection with you. You are just wasting your time thinking that is the issue.

You both need to get over your fear of separation, and end this relationship. It's tough but once you have removed yourself from it, and adjust, you will wonder why you didn't do this sooner. You will learn to know what you want and what you don't want for the next person to enter your life. trust me leaving her will be the best decision you have ever made. It's juat a matter of cutting the strings, and realize it was never meant to be and yes a relationship like this should never have been pursued. There truly is better out there, you just don't know what it's like that's what you have to believe in in order to move on.

[roku1]

Wow... a big thank you to all of you for your input, your comments have really helped my thought process. I apologise for not having returned sooner but I'm having a bit of problem loading the website and I didn't have any notifications via my email. I had thought no-one was here, just those spam posts doh!

Dontaskme - I think you nailed it right there, "a relationship should not be that difficult," this is what my mother has said in the past although I try not to regard family opinion too much as they’re always going to be biased towards me. From you it seems so valid a point.

Taking a break? That’s tantamount to breaking up, or at least that’s how I believe she would see it. If I was to suggest that we may as well go whole hog!

Physical attractiveness long term? I’m not just saying this to score points but I do believe that looks aren’t everything. There are many other attributes that make my OH shine, plus she is not ‘ugly’ physically, not by a long shot. It’s more that the recurring negatives in the relationship have eroded the positives and I don’t feel the whole package is there any more. I believe we could get this physical attraction back if we were working, maybe that’s where counselling would come in?

Wakeup – “Power Struggle,” a perfect way to summarise our relationship thus far. We are indeed too similar and this has created unnecessary friction, especially when it comes to compromise.

As for my OH not knowing the extent of my current discontent i.e. since the Christmas clash (and our lack of discussion about it), we have and do talk about our feelings. Unfortunately it is becoming less common to do these things, I definitely care less than I once did. I hated writing that but it’s true, that’s the first time I think I’ve really taken that in!

We’re actually going away on a spa weekend tomorrow, a birthday present that I bought for her last year but have only just made time to book in. Recent (sporadic & rather brief) conversations lead me to believe that she wants to talk about our future and current problems etc. Not the ideal place to ‘air our laundry’ as there’s no ‘escape’ if it turns sour so I will curtail any depth for now (not out of fear mind, more so fairness) and ‘test the water’ with where she is. You never know, she may be feeling the same way as me… we will see.

Smackie – “Waste?” Far too strong a word and I couldn’t disagree more. If we don’t work out then the later days of our relationship could be ‘wasted’ as I first had the desire to leave back in the summer, until then I was all for working it out. I never threated to leave our relationship until I lost faith in ‘us’. I think you’re right about her being insecure, in so many ways she isn’t but it is definitely there, as it is in me too. You’re also right in that I am afraid to walk away into the unknown. Am I “codependent?” I’m not so sure, sadly I feel most happy when I am left to my own devices, not long term but I guess that is down to familiarity/need for companionship.

You made some really valid points, thank you. Maybe a little blunt but I understand what you’re saying. I fear that I could summarise our relationship as having become a very close friendship with the romance we once had slowly ebbed through unresolved or recurring conflict?


Since I was last on the site, just after I first replied to you Dontaskme, we have been so busy with work that we’ve not really had much interaction.

As I touched upon in my last post, we still haven’t talked about our Christmas fallout and we’re trying to act as if nothing has changed. This is very confusing as I’m falling back into our natural rhythm and I don’t know whether I should let myself/us. We did have my OH’s mother stay with us for most of this past week which hasn’t helped but still, things feel odd in our house and now I feel as if all this is on me.

I’m going to really give this spa break a good shot and not take any mental baggage in there with me. If we can’t get along and have a good time together then there’s really no hope for us.

Thanks again for everyone’s input… you’re very generous and speaking sound advice. I hope you all have a great weekend!

[TablesandChairs]

Fireworks and rainbows tend to be far more difficult to experience at the 5 year mark than they are at the 5 week mark. Life gets in the way and with it, all the little resentments start piling up and a lot of people probably have similar thoughts - 'oh it'd be easier/better to just find someone else'. If I'm to be 100% honest, the man I married last month is not THAT much better than the first guy I ever dated - the main difference is timing, maturity and our joined efforts to communicate properly. For example, last year I only got 2 weeks off work at the end of the year so was pretty exhausted and looking forward to time off. As it turned out, my partner wanted to visit his family over this period. He doesn't get to see them often due to distance but at the same time, I wanted a bit of a break and living with his parents for 2 weeks was not my idea of a holiday. So, we compromised - one week with his family, one week away. Solved. Once upon a time, though - that small issue may have turned into an argument.

My theory is - 5 years is a long time and to give up on something without seeking counselling or making genuine efforts to fix things may be throwing something to the wind on the assumption that someone 'amazing' is waiting around the corner. But all new relationships are amazing, it's the established relationships that continue to be great through thick/thin that are worth envying. I'm not is your shoes; if you've gotten to the point where there's no fight left in either of you, so be it. But communicating and compromising are skills that can be learned so not all has to be lost if you both decide that what you have is worth a bit more effort than either of you is currently putting in. Sweeping a mess under the carpet achieves very little...but so does communication which is geared towards 'winning' instead of understanding/reaching a workable solution.

[smackie9]

Nope sorry I can't agree with any of this. It is a waste when you cling onto a relationship that has been for the most part unsatisfying, physically and emotionally. You are in total denial. You fight for a reason, she doesn't kiss you with passion for a reason, you both can't seem to reason, you want to leave for A REASON.....you have never been compatible. All you did settle and coasted in this mess for 5 years. When the cons out weigh the pros you know you are wasting your time. I can see it if things have always been good to excellent for the past 4 years or so but have gone south recently then yes therapy will work. But when it has always has been a struggle it gets to a point of "why am I here?" You are beating a dead horse.

[SnackAttack]

OP what have your other relationships been like? Have you felt 'unsure' in these ways before with other people?

[maxtazm]

If you want to leave just leave. If you are worried you won't be able to find another person then [URL="http://daygamereview.com/4-tips-talking-women-confidently/"]have a look at this[/URL]. to give you some advice on how to be more confident.

You know you wont be happy staying in this relationship, you are just afraid of the unknown. don't waste your time.

[roku1]

Hi all, thank you for continuing to stick with me on this thread and to the new contributors, TablesandChairs & SnackAttack.

Quick update, we didn’t go to the spa break as the spa cancelled our stay. There has been a lot of bad weather and there was a power cut so we’ve had to reschedule for another time. Instead we did some ‘couply’ things like go to the gym together etc. Was a nice weekend but couldn’t shake the ‘uncertain’ feelings I’ve been having. We also failed to talk much about our recent issues and, at the risk of facing ridicule, I wasn’t overly forthcoming on my feelings when we did talk. I just didn’t feel comfortable and almost resented my OH’s efforts to future plan. Not good, looking back I’m now kicking myself for not being more open but my feelings at the time just weren’t ‘playing ball’. My mistake.

T&C, I hear what you’re saying about the ‘spark’, I know and understand that this wanes with time and that you have to work to get it back but the times when we work are so few and far between. I’m not completely giving up on ‘us’ though, hence I came here for some advice (which has been so helpful, thank you… I can’t tell how much you’ve all helped with my anxiety, these new perspectives have helped lessen my staying up at night in bed with wondering thoughts).

FWIW, we’re both out of ‘fight’ right now. At the weekend I was told by my OH that if we don’t make our long-term plans in the very near future then she’s packing up shop. I understand where she’s coming from and I totally emphasise with her here. It’s just that apart from my feelings of ambivalence, recently we’ve been floating through life as if we’re perfectly happy again and my emotions and concerns are starting to feel moot, to a degree. I can’t shake feeling that there’s something better out there, something I want that I’m not getting and if I stow it away and deal with it, will it only resurface, maybe months or even years, down the line? Do you put up with this or do you do something about it? I don’t know. Without being able to remember my feelings from when things were bad (summer 2014) I feel selfish having these thoughts now when my OH is trying.

Smackie, I love how direct you are but you’re not 100% right about a few things. It hasn’t been 5 years of unhappiness, until last summer I was thoroughly happy working things through. She also doesn’t kiss with passion because (I believe) she hasn’t ever learnt how… it’s all stage kissing. I have tried (and still attempting to) teach her and she has gotten better but we’re not there yet. It’s hard as she doesn’t take instruction or (constructive) criticism very well, so doing this without knocking her confidence is tricky. This isn’t a deal breaker anyway, just a frustration to add to the ‘needs not being met’ list. I don’t believe the ‘horse’ is dead just yet, hence I’m here (horse as in the relationship, not my OH).

SnackAttack, yes I have felt like this before but it was a difference scenario. I’ve only ever had one other LTR and that started to fizzle out around the 3rd year; we were together just over 4 years. My OH at the time was a nut job, not a bad person but she didn’t really have my back. There became a time when I started to yearn for something better after she went too far and showed her true colours.
The similarities are that since the conflict of summer 2014, I have been starting to yearn for something more than my current OH gives/can give me but the difference is that I’ve wanted to fight for this relationship. My previous LTR was an easy one to decide.
Other than the one previous LTR, I have been in many STR, ranging from a couple of weeks of dating through to 6months etc.

If anyone’s interested to know, since I started this thread I picked up a book on relationship ambivalence called ‘Too good to leave, Too bad to stay,’ by Mira Kirshenbaum. It’s a great book with 36 questions to ask yourself about your relationship which help decide whether to stay or go. A lot of the questions didn’t really apply to my relationship but those that did indicated a 50:50 with one overwhelming ‘leave’. I don’t want to ruin the book if any of you would like to check it out but the leave was pretty certain. I’m currently trying to re-evaluate my feelings for my OH and to see if I can live with these relationship issues. I don’t want to follow the suggestions of the book blindly and it was very well worded i.e. ‘if you answered this way then most people in your situation were most happy leaving.’ I guess I need to figure out what I want and whether my OH can provide it, if she can’t then I will probably be happier moving on and then both of us can get on with our lives.

I should mention than in the past we have discussed our needs and wants, also the things that drive each of us crazy (bad crazy) about one another. Apart from my reluctance to make future plans whilst we’re ‘up in the air’ I don’t have do a lot of things that annoy her, but that’s because I listen to her and don’t repeat my annoying habits (at least when she’s around). On the flip side, she takes in what I say, gets a little annoyed and 24hrs later forgets. These are mostly little things like leaving toilet lids up (our tooth brushes live very close), leaving lights on (we have high bills), water running, heaters on unnecessarily, doors open, not doing much housework (although we have just started to use cleaning services) etc. but after 5 years of this it has become so mind numbingly soul destroying. I’ve asked politely for years and now she gets mad when I do so. My retort is, ‘why not just become mindful of these things then the problem’s gone?’ I have tried just accepting this and taking care of these things myself i.e. she’s been in the kitchen and left the lights & oven on, so I get up and go turn them off but after a couple of months of this it gets very tiring!

Our needs are another matter and I’m my ‘yearning for something else’ is because mine are not being met. OH wants marriage and children, tricky at this stage, whereas mine are a lot easier to satisfy, but despite talking about them they rarely get met. She makes an effort, vary rarely, but I think hers come first. I’m often met with, ‘well if we were married then this is what would happen’ etc. Not fair game methinks.

My soul-searching continues…


TL-DR : I’m starting to get an idea of what I need to do and all of your contributions have helped me reach this point. Thank you so much for putting your time into this stranger’s dilemma. You really have made me feel better about my situation xx

[roku1]

Hello again.

Just wanted to update this as I've been doing a lot of thinking over the weekend. My thoughts are siding towards the ending of the relationship.

I have decided that in my current frame of mind, I cannot give my OH what she needs and unfortunately, I am not going to get what I need either. I may be throwing away a 'good thing' but at the same time, a 'good thing' shouldn't have to be fought for so hard, there should be some mutual compassion and coming together that saw us cater for both our needs.

Many arguments were born out of my OH's inability to emphasize with my feelings and in turn, resentment emerged from myself for possibly over-empathizing therefore doing things I didn't want to (albeit sometimes they were just done to avoid argument). My OH's 'lack of empathy' isn't an overstatement & I don't meant to imply she's unkind or uncaring, she would do anything for you if you asked but she has always been used to getting her own way that it blinds her sometimes to the feelings of others, especially in heated moments. I don't think I can put up with this for the rest of my life, it has caused too many issues to date. My OH just needs a 'yes man' or someone who genuinely wants to do everything that she does.

I am tired of wanting more from the relationship, whether it be someone who enjoys sharing my hobbies and/or music, someone who 'clicks' sexually with me or someone with whom there's a special attraction; there's the real possibility of finding someone new who ticks the boxes that, in this relationship, have 'unticked' themselves over recent years.

I don't know if I can have another discussion about our problems where we'll inevitably agree to work on them, only to be back here again in several months time, like where we are currently. Surly if things were going to work out then they would have done so by now? We wouldn't have to be struggling like we are?

If I can't commit to my OH now, after 5 years of being together, then will I ever? I'm not looking to make up excuses here, I don't need to. I don't feel 100% committed to this relationship and for whatever reason(/s) that there may be, after 5 years there should be some sort of progression. Granted this stagnation may originate from my camp only but there is a shared cause; we have fallen out of sync and attempts to get us back on track are failing thick and fast!

There are other things, some simply vain, others more deep routed and significant, that I could mention but I don't think I need go on. I don't believe my OH can cater for me and if that's the case then I can't cater for her, I don't want to sacrifice my happiness for hers. I think this sounds a little selfish but a good person told me,

"This life is too short to spend it hoping for something else, you shouldn't deprive yourself of happiness to make someone else happy,"

Another said,

"At the end of this brief life, it's best to regret the things that you did, than those you didn't!"

And I believe both of them... I don't think that I should spend the rest of my life ignoring various 'wants' that I need in this relationship and I certainly don't want to wake up 30 years down the line asking myself "If only I had gone and made a fresh start back in my 30's?"

The hard part is coming to terms with the fact that I will most likely lose my best friend for nearly 5 years... someone who, despite the conflict, has been my closest ally and who I have shared many of the most important and meaningful moments of my life with. This is something that I just can't get my head around; I know that we're not compatible as lovers but as friends, my OH is second to none and I don't know how I can spend the rest of my life without seeing her. My OH saved my life and gave me the will to move forward, I feel I owe her more than this. I care for her so very much, more than I have ever cared for a partner, I just wish that we would be happier together. Thinking of her alone and upset totally destroys me. It makes me want to throw away all my needs, just to make her feel better. How do you overcome these feelings? She woke up crying the other mornings and when I asked why, she said because she didn't know what else she could do to make us better. I wish I did... all I could do was hold her and cry too.

I am not enjoying this at all.

[roku1]

Hi all… if anyone is still reading this thread I just wanted to add a little more.

Last night my OH was working late and I was reminded how the work comes first for her, as it has done for years.

Whilst lying in bed together, trying to get to sleep, she started talking about some things and whether I had spent any time considering our future. This led to a minor argument which evolved into conversation about our current situation, where I (partly) opened up to her… totally the wrong time and place but she drew it out of me.

I was honest, that I didn’t know what to do and that I loved her, that I care for her more than anyone else in the world but that I don’t know if we can go on the way we are.

I last bought up my issues with ‘us’ in summer 2014, most notably, the lack of intimacy and sex; how I had spent so much time playing second fiddle to her work. It had taken about a year of patience and gentle suggestion before I had to say something. From when I first opened up through to now, she hasn’t taken one bit of action to make things better and yes, I have tried ‘turning things up’ myself – I haven’t just been sat back waiting for something to happen. Nor have I been overwhelming or ‘gung-ho ‘ with my attempts.

Her reason for this, from as far back as 2 years ago, is that “we hadn’t gotten married or discussed marriage, so (my OH) started to withdraw, sexually, from the relationship.”
I just don’t quite understand this...
I thought that intimacy bonded couples and brought them closer together, which leads to marriage, children etc? Not that you should expect marriage and then get intimate?

This sounds like excuses to me, not very good ones. I just don’t think we work on this level, which is a shame as it’s a very important ‘level’ to me.

So, after more chat and a bit of a cry we came to ‘what happens next?’ My OH said that she wanted to ‘reset’ and start over with me, asking whether we could go back to the beginning and try again. She didn’t want us to end.

I told her ‘I didn’t know,’ which is the honest truth. That must have been terrible for her to hear but as much as I love and care for her, I don’t want to ‘change’ her; we shouldn’t have to ‘change’ at all! You can change anyone to fit your needs, shouldn’t a life-partnership be with someone that just ‘fits’?

Now I’m stuck again and don’t know what to do, she wanted a ‘date night’ tonight to spend some time together but I don’t want her to do anything that isn’t natural i.e. I don’t want to feel like she’s trying to win my emotions, I have more respect for her than that and I just want her to be her and to be on the same level. I just want us to be ‘us’ again, like we once were, before she started to ‘withdraw’! Is that ever going to happen? Can this be fixed?

[TablesandChairs]

'Date night' is something many couples try in order to re-connect. It might look like work comes first for her, but that might be being a bit unfair; it's hard to ignore work demands unless you want to get fired. Sure, if it's too demanding, she might look elsewhere at some point but generally, women have to build their careers up before they have kids in order to establish something to come back to later.

She's trying and you're begrudging her attempts at trying and you're also minimising the things she feels by calling them excuses; you can't know for sure and what might be a small thing for you may be more significant for her. She's been with you for 5 years and there's been no engagement, no marriage...I can't speak for all women but that would affect me personally and I'd either leave or withdraw. You have needs = she has needs - neither of you are meeting those.

You have to decide whether you both make a genuine attempt to reconnect and re-try or you walk away. There aren't too many other options. She's suggested trying again - starting from scratch...which isn't a bad idea. But you're not giving her much in return...being indecisive is frustrating. She's not perfect but she's been great in some respects. I'm sure the same applies to you. I wouldn't give up on 5 years unless there was a) abuse, b) cheating and c) if genuine effort had been made with no improvement. But that's me. Decision is yours but sitting on the fence gets none the closer to where you want to be.