Obama's Cigarette Banning

[Yggdrasil]

Ban Doc Durian....

(haha.. if I had it my way, there'd be a lot of banning going on)

LOL

[miSSleepy]

I bagged Australia for its track record on banning. Bans run more free than water does in Oz.

The US has a noted history of resisting the tyranny of socialism and the accompanying banning or censoring.

Don't bother trying to debate this.

It's common knowledge.

I'll say whatever I like on this subject. You can sic Chairman Rudd and Comrad Gillard on me if you don't like it.

Have a sook and get over it.

And I'll debate whatever the F*ck I want to on this subject you hypocrite.
Talk however much you want to about resisting tyranny and censoring, but what has this done about anything?
As for Australia's track record for banning... what is it?
We banned arms. God forbid morons can't carry firearms anymore.
At least we still have our flavoured cigarettes! hahaha.

[Yggdrasil]

[miSSleepy]

hehehe

It's ok, I'm throwing in the towel. I have more important things to concentrate on.

[Doc Durian]

And I'll debate whatever the F*ck I want to on this subject you hypocrite.
Talk however much you want to about resisting tyranny and censoring, but what has this done about anything?

What are you? A Year 9 school leaver from Broadmeadows or something?

As for Australia's track record for banning... what is it?

You ****wads either ban or demand things be banned every single waking moment. Where would you like me to start?

Pre Pauline Hansen, post Pauline Hansen?

Bull bars in the city and regional alcohol sales to Abbo-Australians a good start?

There are so many bans in Australia, or calls to ban, that one merely search the Fairfax newspapers for the word "ban" if they want a list. Do your own dirty work, bludger.

We banned arms. God forbid morons can't carry firearms anymore.
At least we still have our flavoured cigarettes! hahaha.

Firearms were severly banned/limited and now unnarmed people are being gunned down in your major cities by illegal firearms which weren't surrendered during the buy back scheme. Go figure.

But hey, that's Australia. Not terribly practical and the people not very bright.

Now piss off, tart.

[miSSleepy]

You're right. I shouldn't bother debating with someone who has to resort to insults and racism.

[Mish]

The point is, once you start making certain freedoms ILLEGAL, you can bet your ass there will soon be new ones to follow. I didn't realize we were going to turn into a communist state where freedoms start getting banned.

They are not banning cigarettes, they just want to tax them out of existence, making a problem pay for the solution, a move I wholeheartdely support. After I read some shocking articles about second hand smoke and people with holes in their throats because they were forced to live with smokers (children, partners) I lost any sympathy for the "rights" of smokers.

[Yggdrasil]

They are not banning cigarettes, they just want to tax them out of existence, making a problem pay for the solution, a move I wholeheartdely support. After I read some shocking articles about second hand smoke and people with holes in their throats because they were forced to live with smokers (children, partners) I lost any sympathy for the "rights" of smokers.

I would fully support a gallon of gasoline costing $1,000. They should tax that crap so high nobody drives anymore.

I have read some shocking articles about people getting hit by vehicles and dying because the drivers didn't pay attention to the road.

Never mind all the pollution and cancer causing byproducts which are a result of refining crude oil into gasoline. I've read some shocking articles about that to.

[Mish]

I have read some shocking articles about people getting hit by vehicles and dying because the drivers didn't pay attention to the road.

A tiny percentage of drivers as whole not paying enough attention on the road and a huge percentage of people dying or developing life long health problems due to second hand smoke are two completely different things and you know it. You are comparing apples to rocks.

Next thing you will be using these comparisons to justify legalization of heroin.

[ecojeanne]

if a person wants to kill themselves while having the knowledge about the risks then let them. as mish pointed out it's when second hand smoke is involved that it becomes a moral and ethical issue. children should not be exposed. in-fact cigarettes are likely the leading cause in combination with an unhealthy diet. BUT the fact is cigarettes will now always exist. if you ban them you create a black market with the possibility of goodness knows what put into them to make more profit. taxing just ends up with people who are addicted losing more money that should be spent on their families. it's a catch 22 in some cases and in other cases it's hopefully going to make them give up. an addiction is an extremely hard thing to break physiologically.

of course don't get me started with obama. he should be focusing on nuitrition for real not on the fact he put a woman who was involved with burger king to set up some nutritional thing. fact is people are suffering from malnutrition and the food on the market is the problem-this is the main cause for all sorts of diseases including the epidemic of cancer going on right now. that should be investigated and changed but it won't be-too much money involved. the whole thing is a joke and stinks. and it's not just the US, it's the whole world.

[boobaa]

All cigarettes should be banned. Lifetime non-smoker here. I should have the right to breathe fresh air. Luckily, we in europe have normal and reasonable laws.

[LadieNisha4u2nv]

That's my problem with smoking. I could care less if someone doesnt care about their own life, but people smoke all over the place not giving a shit who inhales it. Why would you smoke in a crowded area? It's unfair to the ones who are actually not smokers. Dont get me started on the sorry asses who light up a cigarette around children. That is when the leash on my mouth is gone.

[ecojeanne]

boobaa you have the right as a human on this planet but does your right get adhered to, NO, pollution for a start, we are surrounded by chemical based cleaning products, spray here and spray there. seriously ciggarettes are the least of your problems

[Lipp]

He isn't making all cigarettes illegal though.

He is making CLOVE cigarettes illegal, and FLAVORED cigarettes illegal.

How many people do you know that smoke, smoke those? I bet it's way less than HALF of the people you know who smoke. The ARGUMENT is that clove and flavored cigs reel kids in. I disagree. They ALWAYS say it's for the kids. This is about Phillip Morris creating yet another monopoly that exists in America.

Kreteks are imported from Indonesia. Those who smoke cloves, generally smoke way less than normal cigarettes as they are LESS ADDICTING. It's like smoking a small cigar. I personally smoke one a day.

Taxes during a recession on anything should not exist. Tax my cigs when I am making money. But for the love of God, to make them ILLEGAL????? Are you shitting me?

The point is, once you start making certain freedoms ILLEGAL, you can bet your ass there will soon be new ones to follow. I didn't realize we were going to turn into a communist state where freedoms start getting banned.

Bloody hell, stop whining already. You can be damn sure that they'd be unhappy if people started making vodka that tastes like orange juice so that people can gobble it down and be blissfully ignorant of its effects.

And you have a bad habit of ignoring, as you already mentioned briefly, that they're more harmful than other cigarettes, but I guess the addictiveness is the only thing that is relevant, since its the only support of your argument.

And lastly, as we keep on seeing again and again, whenever someone makes the slightest change that isn't fully agreed on parallels are directly drawn to excessive examples (New tax? We're sweden! Healthcare reform? We're Russia! A small proportion of cigarettes of a particular kind banned? We're communist!).

****'s sake, get real.

[Yggdrasil]

A tiny percentage of drivers as whole not paying enough attention on the road and a huge percentage of people dying or developing life long health problems due to second hand smoke are two completely different things and you know it. You are comparing apples to rocks.

Am I? Let's look at the numbers:

The total worldwide number of car accident fatalities is difficult to estimate. Figures around 17 million have been suggested in 1991, and would have to be significantly higher now, making car driving one of the deadliest undertakings in the history of mankind.

In addition, every year an estimated 800 million vehicles are on the road world wide causing photochemical smog.

This forms when sunlight hits various pollutants in the air and forms a mix of inimical chemicals that can be very dangerous. Photochemical smog (short smog) is the chemical reaction of sunlight, nitrogen oxides and volatile organic compounds (VOCs) in the atmosphere, which leaves airborne particles (called particulate matter) and ground-level ozone.

Nitrogen oxides are released by nitrogen and oxygen in the air reacting together under high temperature such as in the exhaust of fossil fuel-burning engines in cars, trucks, coal power plants, and industrial manufacturing factories. VOCs are released from man-made sources such as gasoline (petrol), paints, solvents, pesticides, etc.

All of these chemicals are usually highly reactive and oxidizing. Photochemical smog is therefore considered to be a problem of modern industrialization. It is present in all modern cities, but it is more common in cities with sunny, warm, dry climates and a large number of motor vehicles. Because it travels with the wind, it can affect sparsely populated areas as well.

Ground-level ozone, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide and carbon monoxide are especially harmful for senior citizens, children, and people with heart and lung conditions such as emphysema, bronchitis, and asthma.

The Ontario Medical Association announced that photochemical smog is responsible for an estimated 9,500 premature deaths in the province each year.

The World Health Organization states that 2.4 million people die each year from causes directly attributable to air pollution, with 1.5 million of these deaths attributable to indoor air pollution. Epidemiological studies suggest that more than 500,000 Americans die each year from cardiopulmonary disease linked to breathing fine particle air pollution.

A study by the University of Birmingham has shown a strong correlation between pneumonia related deaths and air pollution from motor vehicles.

Published in 2005 suggests that 310,000 Europeans die from air pollution annually.

A new economic study of the health impacts and associated costs of air pollution in the Los Angeles Basin and San Joaquin Valley of Southern California shows that more than 3800 people die prematurely (approximately 14 years earlier than normal) each year.

Even in areas with relatively low levels of air pollution, public health effects can be substantial and costly. This is because effects can occur at very low levels and a large number of people can potentially breathe in such pollutants.

But let's be blind and go after the smokers.

Sorry Mish, I am not buying this SMOKE screen. Smokers are the least of our worries.