Tricking her into liking me, but backwards

[whaywardj]

Careful, Crazyjoe. Mishanya's sharpening scapels. Trop bon.

[Mish]

Careful, Crazyjoe. Mishanya's sharpening scapels. Trop bon.

Oooooh, whats a scapel?

...And do i look dangerous holding one???

[Junsui]

I haven't read the whole thread because I'm lazy, but you said people tell you you have mental disorders. Have you ever gone in to a therapist to find out if you actually do?

[Chlorine]

crazyjoe----"But I know you are an amazing person, and I want to be with you. It's ok for you to point out things about me you don't like - I find it impossible to think that you wouldn't want me to change. I want to change too, I think for once I want what a normal person would want - I want to be with you and I don't want any wierdness unless it's postive, fun wierdness." "What can I say to her? Is is more wrong to ask her to be with me through this change, or is it more wrong to push her away so I can focus on certain problems? What would you do, and does anyone know how I can help myself?"


I found your posts intriguing. I can't help you but I can relate to you through my experience. You are so similar to someone that I know (Mr. X), minus the drug usage. Especially your rambling post above. It's almost as if I can hear X talking to me again.

Dating him was very stressful. He was very smart, but so abnormal. He didn't go about life the normal way. He didn't react in ways that normal people would, and I just couldn't understand why he behaved the way he did. He had no sense of time, he said strange things, and his reasoning was the exact opposite to what a normal person would think. He was perfectly normal and abnormal at the same time. Everyone around him would say, "X? He's just like that. Weird, strange". People always forgave him for his idiosyncracies because of his intelligence and his charm.

The worst part of him was his lack of empathy. Most people are cruel intentionally, he was just emotionless. Things said, things done, had no effect on him. He was incapable of loving anyone, understanding anyone. I think the worst thing he ever said was "if you died, I don't think I would miss you". And the frightening part was he said that in all honesty. Being around him reduced my self esteem into a puddle of nothingness, and for the sake of my own sanity, I finally cut contact with him.

I didn't realise that there was such a personality disorder, until Clynn mentioned it in his/her post.

[crazyjoe]

For Mishanya:

1. Yes. What you've said makes more sense than the guesses my friends have made. Thank you very much.


2. Personality Disorders I think I have:
I am pretty much the definition of paranoid personality disorder.

I have all the symptoms of schizotypal personality disorder. I would say that I am pretty much the definition of that as well, except for I'm not that dysfunctional in society.

I have some symptoms of schizoid personality disorder, all excpt for maybe 2. I don't think my interpersonal skills are that weak (I have alot of friends), and I wouldn't say that I'm overly unresponsive to praise or criticism.

I think those are the only ones that really effect me. I know some people on this form mentioned narcissm. I really don't think I have that. I don't care enough about other people, thats true (as in I don't feel it. I still don't treat people any worse than anyone else does, I just do it for logical, rather than emotional reasons). But I also usually don't care alot about myself, which is pretty much the main thing with narcissm...
I may be slightly avoidant and antisocial at times, but I think everyone feels like that at times, so I don't really think I have any of those disorders.




3. Situations when I use drugs:
1. Smoke alot of pot with large groups of people. I feel like it brings everyone togeather, and I can connect to other people alot better when they are feeling what I am feeling. I've smoked with alot of people, and even if I've only done it with them once, I feel alot more comfortable talking to them later on.
-I think I smoke pot to connect with people...

2. Mushrooms with my closest friends. For me, the reason I use mushrooms is because of the feeling it gives me. It's like everything is the same, but I'm just happier about it. When I'm on mushrooms really apperciate all of my friends. I sometimes spontously get the urge to hug them. I don't really find the visual effects that interesting. (They are weak compared to salvia)
-I think I do mushrooms to feel things...

3. Salvia. Anytime, anyplace. It's the only drug I do alone frequently. You guys probly have no ideas what this stuff does, though. It's about 10x as strong as LSD, but it only lasts a few minutes. It's legal, actually(or, more correctly, it's not completely illegal). It's not very mainstream, mostly because most first time uses get terrified and never do it again. For me, it basically unleashes my subconcious. For example, my biggest fear is that there is absolutely no such thing as free will, and everything is scripted (I think this may be one cause of my lack of emotions). I believe that people are basically formed by the combination of DNA and circumstances, and that there is no choice at all. I really hate believing this, but, once again, I can't trick myself into feeling differently. The emotions during my salvia trips are that I completely lose control. I don't feel like I'm interating with the world. I feel that I am interacting with a movie that is controlling my actions. The 'trip' generally tells me (through a feeling, not a sound) "this is your trip." I feel like it has planned for everything. It is a perfect movie that can manipulate my actions so well, that even though the movie was made long ago, my actions will always line up with what the next scene wants me to do. During this time period (usually a few minutes) I am constantly feeling as if I am in the process of waking up from a dream, but can never actually wake up. After feeling this for a bit, I begin to get really freaked out. This is pretty much the main reoccuring aspect of my trips. I think it is a powerful exageration of my fears - most people agree that salvia allows for self exploration. I think this is one of the reasons I am so concerned with my status. I also find the visual aspect of the trip intersting, but very scary. I'm not going to describe the exact effects, but nothing looks 'real'. This effect basically compunds with the fact that I feel like I am in a movie.
The overall effect is that I get scared at times, but I think I learn things about myself. It's not always a negative, either. Once I had a powerful realization of how much one of my friends cared for me. (I was talking to him while I was tripping, and he was the only 'real' thing in the room.)
-It appears that during my description of why I use the drug, I revealed alot about myself. I think that may be one of the main reaons I use it, although the visuals are kinda cool.



4. You will then explain why you talk like Woody Allen
I don't even know who that is, and I'm not familar with any disorder named after him. All I know is that he used to be in movies...




5. You will then explain why you think you can trick yourself into loving somebody and why tricking yourself into loving somebody must involve the person who you think likes you into liking you as well.
Well, I probly can't.
But I know there are periods where I actually do love her, and it feels like she loves me back. I really like that feeling.

I don't really understand the 2nd part of the question...

[Mish]

Hi Joe

It looks like you have been analysing yourself for quite a while. You have interesting introspection skills.

Let me go through some of the points.

1. Honetsly, I didn't think you would respond to this, but you are very welcome (:

2. First of all, don't make a habit of self evaluating your own symptoms, unless you are qulified in clinical psychology. This is a very diverse subject and it is very easy to get facts wrong if not following the correct procedures for condition analyses.

A. I think you may have misdiagnosed yourself with PPD. A person suffering from PPD suffers primarily from trust issues, manifested in unwillingness to forgive or suspiciousness of people or partner's fidelity or inclination to distort experience by interpretting neutral actions as hostile. It is a type of a negative and a combative personality disorder and if you were 100% afflicted by it you would for example find my comments in #1 suspicious and respond in a negative manner instead of a positive one. I am sorry to say, but i do not see the desire to pursue conflicts and the need for self-vindication in you (You seem perfectly adept at trying to find porblems within yourself instead of externalising them), however having said that you may suffer from individual symptoms such as excessive suspiciousness.

If you are interested, I will give you a quick litmus test for self assessment

B. Once again I think there are maybe more symptoms that you don't have when it comes to StPD. For example, do you believe that you have special powers or magical control over others? Do you have an excessive preocupation with paranormal theories? Do you suffer from occasional transient quasipsychotic episodes? I think you may find a reference from one of the symptoms of interest though "vague, circumstantial, metaphorical thinking manifested in odd speech without gross incoherence"

The key issue with this disorder is disorganization in cognitive thinking, uncoordinated facillity in regulation of personal needs, tension and goals as well as inadequate defense against external stimulae that sometimes leads in disorganized and often direct release of infantile thougths and impulses.

The medication for this disorder is prescribed according to target symptoms. You will need to consult with a clinical psychologist for recommendation and advice. increased participation in activities can provide a window of reality-based experiences that may reduce the need for bizarre internal gratifications. Also, if you believe you are affected by this disorder you should note that bizarre thoughts are symptoms and do not have to be responded to behaviorally or emotionally.

Once again, a litmus test is available for self assessment if you're interested

C. Individuals with SPD appear to have defective perceptual scanning, which results in missing environmental cues (E.g. perception of events are mixed, disorganized and undifferentiated). Manifested also in absence of affect, inabillity to experience pleasure activities and avoidance of others in the name of anxiety management. I like this description quote of an individual with SPD "Capable of leaving the room without having to physically walk out" This serves to increase fearfulness of intimacy and encourages severely limited insterpersonal experience. The key issue with SPD is social isolation. As part of treatment for this disorder, social contact and experience relating to expression of feelings is recommended.

Once again I recommend for you a proper assessment and analyses from both a counseling and clinical psychologist for further assitance.

3. I will touch base with you on possible affects and conesquences of drugs you are using. I recommend for you to give up all drugs you are using at the moment at least until a clear diagnosis of your condition is established. You must be weary to not sucumb to weird perceptual distortions that alleviate anxiety about personal strangeness when in drugs use. You must also seek treatment as a holistic approach and not as an attempt to reduce the danger of negative consequences or only as a harm reduction technique.

4. Please excuse my poor sense of humour

5. The question was my attempt to understand your reasoning. You are saying that you want to trick your self into loving your gf, however the name of the thread indicates that you want to trick her into liking you (When she likes you already). Play on words or cognitive abillity issue?

[youraddiction]

you better make up your mind faster, and do you really care about who you date with for me i heard peoplejust keep their fantasiy about their true love to them selves

[crazyjoe]

Mishanya -
I think you do have a point with your remarks on PPD. Most of the time I do trust people, but there are also alot of times when I don't trust someone I should. It seems like alot of times when someone's nice to me, I think to myself "ok, what do they want." Even if it's somone I like. I even flinch alot - ha.
But you might be right, it's not like a lack of trust is really interfering with my life...

StPD, I'm not sure about it. Perhaps someone else's evaluation would be more useful than mine. The odd things that interest me don't seem paranormal to me, but I assumed they would to others. I spend way too much time thinking about chaos theory, and wondering if there is really such a thing as choice. Like, an hour a day - whenever I'm doing something that isn't occupying my brain, I drift off into stuff like that. Thinking about it now, it seems more like it's overly rational, and quite far from the whole "contacting spirits" thing. But then again, I analyze every dream I have, and try to learn about my subconcious through salvia use, so perhaps that is paranormal? Or am I maybe using that for some sort of rational effect.
Although, I don't think my thinking it disorganized at all. I tend to jump around a bit, but I wouldn't classify it as any flaws in my thinking.
Did you notice something about how I talk, are my speech patterns abnormal. I mean, I know they can be at times, and people often have trouble following me, but I usually try and re-read everything I post on the net to see if it makes sense...



I'm really not that sure. I think it's difficult for a person who analyzes every event to really evaulate himself. If I'm always asking myself "why did I do this?" then I will probably have plenty of situations where I can say "Wow, I don't trust people as much as I should, maybe I have a problem with such-and-such..."


Thanks for your well written responses, it helps more than you know. What I really need is outside perspectives.
Setting any specific disorders aside, I have noticed a few things about myself that are preventing me from enjoying the normal social things...
Perhaps you can tell me if you think my evaluation of a few issues is correct:

I think have a problem with being overly rational. I think this excessive rationality is reducing the effect emotions have on me. I also think I dig to deeply into unimportant things. I think when I'm thinking by myself (as opposed to having a conversation with someone such as yourself) I tend to rationalize my opinions/abnormalities, which tends to make them stronger as opposed to weaker.

Once again, while I know alot of facts about how I work/feel/think, my perception of what those facts mean may not be correct. So I end up thinking I have -this- when I really only have just a little bit of -this- so my efforts to fix my problems are misguided...


And sorry about not getting the Joke - you mentioned someone I knew very little about, so instead of assuming it was a joke, I assumed it was something I didn't get.
...remember when you were 6 and your friend said something and your like "I know what it means, it means vagina." but he was like "nah, it means shoe in dutch." HAHA






And to chlorine...
I'm pretty sure I would care if she died. Not as much as I should but i still would care. I cried when my dog died(but not any of my grandparents), I do have some emotions.
If you were in your situation again, what would you want him to do? Lets say you were my g/f now... haha... anyways... if you knew everything that was posted in this thread, what would you want me to do? You probably understand more than everyone.

I know I can feel something. I have felt something - I'm having a really relaxed moment and I realize I love her - as long as theres not something else in the way of that emotion, it just seems like there usually is. I want to feel that more often, and I want her to know that she does mean alot to me.
I also want to change some things about me, for her and myself. I just don't know how to do it.


Thanks to all of you guys and gals. You must've really put some thought into your responses and I really appreciate that.

[whaywardj]

Uh...be careful, Mishanya. Unless you yourself are licensed to practice, you're treading VERY near the line of illegality with your suggestions, disclaimers nothwitstanding, PARTICULARLY so offering them over the web, where one-on-one psychological or medical counseling PATENTLY illegal. The legal test is the "reasonable person standard." Reading your posts, any reasonable person might take some of the things you say to heart and act on them, or as result of them, possibly resulting in damage to themself or others. In which case, not only would YOU be exposed to legal action, but LF as well.

While I appreciate your enjoying exercising and displaying your psychological acumen, I'd suggest you back off a little on the pontification. Some with less of a capacity for critical thinking than others might mistake your opinions for prescriptions, which could lead to a lot of problems for more than just you.

[whaywardj]

Crazyjoe: Good grief! You're taking too many ****ing drugs, too ****ing often, and have your head up your own ass so far that your nose is poking the backside of your navel. It's not all that ****ing complicated. You're utterly self-centered. That's all there is to it.

STOP taking drugs entirely. STOP thinking yours is the only ****ing brain in the world. THEN start asking questions about yourself. Anything before that is just mental masturbation.

[Rosebud]

LOL... mental masturbation! I like that.. I think I just acquired a new phrase..thanks Hayward!!

[Mish]

Uh...be careful, Mishanya. Unless you yourself are licensed to practice, you're treading VERY near the line of illegality with your suggestions, disclaimers nothwitstanding, PARTICULARLY so offering them over the web, where one-on-one psychological or medical counseling PATENTLY illegal. The legal test is the "reasonable person standard." Reading your posts, any reasonable person might take some of the things you say to heart and act on them, or as result of them, possibly resulting in damage to themself or others. In which case, not only would YOU be exposed to legal action, but LF as well.

While I appreciate your enjoying exercising and displaying your psychological acumen, I'd suggest you back off a little on the pontification. Some with less of a capacity for critical thinking than others might mistake your opinions for prescriptions, which could lead to a lot of problems for more than just you.

whaywardj I understand what you are saying. If you review my posts I am basically showing the description of each personality disorder and encourgaing joe to seek proffesional help (As well as staying clear of drugs). The Self assessmnet tests are readily available on the net and involve nothing more than simple questions. The provider of these questions bears the brunt and responsibillity.

But point taken and I shall back off... If anyone wants to delete my previous posts that's okay with me...

[whaywardj]

No biggie, man. Just a little wave of a flag. It's a trigger-happy crowd out there these days. In addition to fakers who deliberately coerce actionable behaviors.

[crazyjoe]

It's all right Mishanya, I think anyone would agree that your advice is better than my own advice.
And the only thing he's really doing any differently than anyone else on this website is using fancy terms. I suppose that could be thought of as a bad thing because that makes it seem like you are a professional. I happen to think you do have a pretty good idea what you are talking about - you and a few others. (Hence the reason for coming here in the first place. I didn't come to get advice from idiots.)

W. Hayward -
I assume you are trying to help, but It seems like your perception is a very negative one. I also know that my posts were what formed that opinion, and I seem to have a negative opionion of myself (but possibly not negative enough). I obviusly know there are alot of negatives about me (which is why im still here) but I think your view may be really more negative than it should be... or it may possibly be one of the only few accurate views out there. I don't act self-centered (people don't see me that way) and I don't really feel like I am, but it could be that I am.
So if you do, infact, know my problem - how would you suggest I change that. I can quit the drug thing totally - or easily reduce it to an occasional party thing - for awhile and see how that works, but I think you would agree that it would take more than just that, right?

[Mish]

Well, I am just an amateur really, who just finds the subject of interest.

So, what you guys are REALLY saying is that I should take this up proffesionally so I can help people?

These days it would probably be easy to make a killing doing this. Too bad I already have a career in a completely different field. But damn, this stuff is fascinating...