is murder justified if the victim is a drug addict, prostitute, and/or transient?

[Tiay]

I am opposed to capital punishment, but I am not on board with you at all, Tiay. People are responsible for their behavior regardless of upbringing in my opinion. We live in a society where killing people is considered unacceptable, and the only way a person doesn't know this is if they were living under a rock.

wait, I actually agree with that, but I see how what I said could be misconstrued. Let me clarify- I very much doubt that anybody who, for instance, molests a child or kills/steals/etc., does not know that society considers this unacceptable. I merely meant to point out that it is possible in some rare cases. For instance, wasn't a doctor who performed abortions killed relatively recently? The murderer probably felt they were doing the world a favor, and that they were in the right.
however, that's extremely unlikely and besides the point, and I should've said so before.

The only factor seemingly unconsidered is severe mental illness, such as schizophrenia. I don't believe people with severe mental illness can be held responsible for their behavior. Nor do i believe children should be held entirely responsible for bad behavior because their brains are not fully formed.

i believe in harsh jail sentences. Also, pedophiles can not be rehabilitated, so they should be lifers.

I agree. Oh, I hadn't even thought of that, vash, you're right, the mentally ill aren't in charge of their actions, after all.
There was a case in ireland where two kids (around 12 years old I think) kidnapped a younger child and tied him to the railroad tracks, killing him. It was a scene from a video game or some such.. (which of course they were too young to be playing).

[Gribble]

I don't mean to imply that you don't want them punished, Tiay. I just don't think blame should be shifted off them at all. It doesn't matter what lead the person to make the decisions he did. All that matters is a child's life has been wrecked and that criminal needs to be removed from society permanently. I could settle for life imprisonment. I'd prefer something even harsher, though.

[Indignant]

I agree. Oh, I hadn't even thought of that, vash, you're right, the mentally ill aren't in charge of their actions, after all.
There was a case in ireland where two kids (around 12 years old I think) kidnapped a younger child and tied him to the railroad tracks, killing him. It was a scene from a video game or some such.. (which of course they were too young to be playing).

oh god i remember that case, his mom left a toddler outside? and 2 kids stole him, covered him in blue paint. i had nightmares for months after i read that story.

[Indignant]

oh yeah, and guess what, those kids went unpunished properly.

[Tiay]

oh god i remember that case, his mom left a toddler outside? and 2 kids stole him, covered him in blue paint. i had nightmares for months after i read that story.

oh yeah, and guess what, those kids went unpunished properly.

Yeah. Oh, I was wrong though, it was in the UK and not Ireland, and he was already dead when laid on the tracks, rather than being tied to them. Didn't see a mention of games or movies on the wikipedia page, I heard that part from a friend so I may be wrong about that. (Technicalities I know, but I'd like to set that straight.)
Terrible case, that. But it shows how easily young minds can be influenced and how such a 'freak' murder can just pop up out of the blue, given some mysterious set of circumstances/probabilities.

my point is, what good comes of punishing them? It is hard to judge without properly knowing the case inside out, but if it were up to me I'd have locked them up for much, much, longer, but then again i'm not an expert on rehabilitation so I cannot comment as to whether they are at all likely to repeat offend.
anyway that's also besides the point.
I simply see no improvement coming out of seeking revenge solely for the sake of revenge.

I don't mean to imply that you don't want them punished, Tiay. I just don't think blame should be shifted off them at all. It doesn't matter what lead the person to make the decisions he did. All that matters is a child's life has been wrecked and that criminal needs to be removed from society permanently. I could settle for life imprisonment. I'd prefer something even harsher, though.

oh, but I don't want them "punished" in a petty, revenge kind of way, I want them either removed from society or in some way ensured that they wont do anything like it again. I don't want to exact revenge (unless I was personally involved and it was my child or whatever, in which case all logic would go out the window anyway), I don't care if they are happy or miserable in jail, and while I agree that we must hold people accountable for their actions, we should recognise that blame and 'fault' are simply not black and white.
Making a spectacle or ritual out of getting revenge simply makes it look like saying "there! we've killed the evil. problem solved!" and I think that discourages people from seeking the true, root causes.
But I think i'm just repeating myself now and you already got that anyway

[misombra]

everybody gets a thanks except those that like texas lol.

anyway, the child molester thing is too cut and dry, i think. i'm talking about people who are drug addicts, prostitutes, and/or transients.

it's too easy to dislike a child molester.

[doppelgaenger]

I don't htink it's justified.

[Junket]

I keep seeing the scenario of an adult harming a child.

What about a child harming a child?

Things aren't as clear cut as they're made out to be, especially when you consider children don't have such a firm grasp on their impulses as the average adult.

So while a child may know what they're doing is wrong, how aware are they of the severity of their actions? Stealing a cookie is wrong, but so is punching another kid in the face, or showing their privates to their fellow neighborhood kids.

It isn't until we're older that we really begin to understand not only the varying degrees of wrong, but also the consequences of our actions as well. Sympathy, empathy. Understanding how what we do or say can affect how another person feels. Understanding the legal and moral laws we are raised to adhere to.

The adult raping or molesting a child is too easy to demonize. All I see in here are knee jerk reactions.

[vashti]

everybody gets a thanks except those that like texas lol.

Bahahah!! That's why we are buddies!

[Gigabitch]

I keep seeing the scenario of an adult harming a child.

What about a child harming a child?

Well, Fras, what do you think should be done about those two English boys that killed that three-year-old? They did horrible things to him; things I won't repeat here because they're sickening. Their identities were never released, as far as I know. In ten years, one of them could date my daughter and we'd never know.

Do you think that sort of ****-ed up person is fixable? Would you want those kids anywhere near your nephews?

[Junket]

Well, Fras, what do you think should be done about those two English boys that killed that three-year-old? They did horrible things to him; things I won't repeat here because they're sickening. Their identities were never released, as far as I know. In ten years, one of them could date my daughter and we'd never know.

Do you think that sort of ****-ed up person is fixable? Would you want those kids anywhere near your nephews?

I don't know about them, we don't know how they'll turn out as adults. But I know that kids can do some pretty bad things and grow up to be remorseful and truly regret their wrongdoings.

Why do we tell people they should wait until they're older before they get married? Because many people change.

Some a little bit.

Others drastically.

[Indignant]

has anyone seen Heavenly Creatures:

[url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0110005/[/url]

2 girls kills a mom.

[nomas]

I like Tiay. Where did he/she come from? She reasons and writes well. She has the potential to make it into my circle of trust.

[Junket]

I like Tiay. Where did he/she come from? She reasons and writes well. She has the potential to make it into my circle of trust.

She's a german from Ireland.

[TheGreek]

everybody gets a thanks except those that like texas lol.

hahaha

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDhThhrd_UY"]YouTube - Family Guy - "Come on!"[/ame]