Moving to Mexico

[misombra]

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_national_guard_border;_ylt=AmiZUj.7rp4mQBaRXqUz Mkqs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNvczYyMWhlBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAw NTI1L3VzX25hdGlvbmFsX2d1YXJkX2JvcmRlcgRjY29kZQNtb3 N0cG9wdWxhcgRjcG9zAzEEcG9zAzMEcHQDaG9tZV9jb2tlBHNl YwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA2Z1bGxuYnNwc3Rvcg--]Obama to send 1,200 troops to US-Mexico border - Yahoo! News[/url]

war on the border. happy now?

[Junket]

'Sombra, you think like such a woman.

You're obviously very bias toward hispanics, no matter what.

EDIT: Yes, that's one of few things he's done that I approve of.

[misombra]

yeah, i guess i am bias haha. maybe because i'm hispanic.

i have a lot of doubts about this helping anything. but if it helps, then i will back down. i just think ya'll should quit dissing on mexicans and mexican immigrants. it bugs the fuk out of me.

[Junket]

yeah, i guess i am bias haha. maybe because i'm hispanic.

i have a lot of doubts about this helping anything. but if it helps, then i will back down. i just think ya'll should quit dissing on mexicans and mexican immigrants. it bugs the fuk out of me.

'Sombra, I don't think anyone here has anything against mexicans specifically, but the facts are that easily, the largest group of illegal immigrants come from the southern border, and are predominantly spanish speaking.

Wouldn't it raise even your eyebrows a bit if the United States were putting more effort into preventing illegal immigration from Canada, or even Europe, when everybody knows that the border that gets overrun the most is the one to the South?

I feel like you look at these videos and say, "Aw, look at this poor guy out on the street just trying to work."

How did he get there?

He didn't foreclose on his house, he didn't accidentally trip over the border and get stranded here, they all made a conscious decision to gamble and travel as far as they did, in hopes to get a job to send money back home.

It is not American's fault that they have families they need to support, it's not even up to America to try to provide social security to their families, in another country.

We're in the middle of a recession, jobs are coming up short, it's bad enough that there's contractors that set aside american applications so they can save a buck on cheap labor.

That's just what they are to those employers, cheap labor. Then when you consider how many illegals send money home, rather than spending it locally, I have yet to see anyone present enough positive points to counter the negative ones.

Wigginston believes the exploitation of cheap labor is good for the middle class, maybe you agree, but wouldn't that throw your entire humanitarian sentiment out the window?

Doesn't it bother you when an employer pays women and legal minorities less for no justified reason?

I have yet to hear someone say that illegals should get paid the same as legal americans, but if they did, then why would a contractor hire an illegal when they can hire legal citizens?

Seriously, what would be the incentive to give illegals work, if it wasn't because they'll work for so much less?

There are so many sides to this to take into account and so far, I've felt like you've only tried to sway people's opinions with videos to garner pity.

We're not all women, we don't all make our decisions on emotional whims.

[misombra]

yeah. it's not a black and white thing. but our government throwing our military and billions and dollars over there won't help. the problem at the border is caused by two things. the mexican government and the american government.

but a couple points: could've had a good job say, making clothes, but jobs like that are outsourced to various other countries. also, if you're a contractor and you lose your job to a homeless guy who doesn't speak english then the employer probably didn't want you anyway.

i put up videos because i don't think the stereotype of mexicans is nice or true. a lot of them do work at becoming legal citizens and there are many many many families that came here and did so. i have a friend who came from russia and worked his family struggled for their citizenship, but i'm sure there are a lot of illegal russian immigrants here too.

people need to be nice to mexico. not too long ago we could go there and buy killer tequila and delicious tacos and spend the night in a hotel and party and drink margaritas at an open bar all night until daybreak. most of those vendors and business owners spoke english, because that's their market. at the same time they could come here and work some and take some money home. it's not like they're getting rich over here. our economy never struggled solely or even slightly because of this arrangement.

it's just a ebb and flow of our capitalist economy mixed with our poor neighbors in the south. during the great depression and other times of economic downturn immigration became an issue. they used to deport american citizens that were brown, which is a reason why this arizona law is so frightening for people.

i think if obama really wants to do something right he should legalize drugs. let these guys sell drugs in our country. it's going to happen regardless of if it's legal or not. being illegal just means we're going to send troops and billions of dollars to the border when we could be benefiting from that trade arrangement.

but it's not black and white, you know? i have my ideas and you have yours. there ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy, there's just you and me and we just disagree.

it's nice to see you actually took the time to post an actual argument rather than say some shit like, "you just think that way cause you're a woman." cause that is stupid.

[dewilliams2]

'Sombra, I don't think anyone here has anything against mexicans specifically, but the facts are that easily, the largest group of illegal immigrants come from the southern border, and are predominantly spanish speaking.

Wouldn't it raise even your eyebrows a bit if the United States were putting more effort into preventing illegal immigration from Canada, or even Europe, when everybody knows that the border that gets overrun the most is the one to the South?

I feel like you look at these videos and say, "Aw, look at this poor guy out on the street just trying to work."

How did he get there?

He didn't foreclose on his house, he didn't accidentally trip over the border and get stranded here, they all made a conscious decision to gamble and travel as far as they did, in hopes to get a job to send money back home.

It is not American's fault that they have families they need to support, it's not even up to America to try to provide social security to their families, in another country.

We're in the middle of a recession, jobs are coming up short, it's bad enough that there's contractors that set aside american applications so they can save a buck on cheap labor.

That's just what they are to those employers, cheap labor. Then when you consider how many illegals send money home, rather than spending it locally, I have yet to see anyone present enough positive points to counter the negative ones.

Wigginston believes the exploitation of cheap labor is good for the middle class, maybe you agree, but wouldn't that throw your entire humanitarian sentiment out the window?

Doesn't it bother you when an employer pays women and legal minorities less for no justified reason?

I have yet to hear someone say that illegals should get paid the same as legal americans, but if they did, then why would a contractor hire an illegal when they can hire legal citizens?

Seriously, what would be the incentive to give illegals work, if it wasn't because they'll work for so much less?

There are so many sides to this to take into account and so far, I've felt like you've only tried to sway people's opinions with videos to garner pity.

We're not all women, we don't all make our decisions on emotional whims.

One could also argue that you are biased becasue you work in construction and don't like the competition.

But I am a white guy who works with animals and goes to college....so I think I'm probably the most unbiased...they are neither a demographic I can relate to nor am I competing with them for a job...and I have stated my opinions.

[Junket]

One could also argue that you are biased becasue you work in construction and don't like the competition.

But I am a white guy who works with animals and goes to college....so I think I'm probably the most unbiased...they are neither a demographic I can relate to nor am I competing with them for a job...and I have stated my opinions.

If unbiased you mean, removed.

For example, there's a dime a dozen for the amount of people that have their opinions of New Orleans and Katrina, and most of them are wrong, whether they're critical, or sympathetic.

I have already on several occasions made clear my support for both amnesty and deportation as there are clear benefits for both, neither of which, would really benefit the middle class as the status quo, does.

I'm not sure if even middle class is correct, it's more like upper middle class, and upper class that benefit from the cheap labor the most, and they probably need it the least.

[dewilliams2]

If unbiased you mean, removed.

I'm not sure if even middle class is correct, it's more like upper middle class, and upper class that benefit from the cheap labor the most, and they probably need it the least.

I can agree with those statements.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.

You know the Romans had problems protecting their boarders and the hordes of people crossing into Roman territory in mass exodus from the east was a contributing factor to their downfall. This is an old problem all prosperous countries have faced.

But I am sympathetic for those that come to this country to try and find the American dream and are faced with bureaucratic red tape and high bills to get through them.

I can't be mad at these people for trying to find better opportunities for their families. They don't mean to make it harder on everybody else, or anybody else. They are not a boogey man looking to hurt somebody. They are just normal people with the same concerns we all have....I cannot blame a man for looking for a better life for his children....I blame the system that makes him struggle to the point that he just gives up.

[Junket]

I can agree with those statements.

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer.

You know the Romans had problems protecting their boarders and the hordes of people crossing into Roman territory in mass exodus from the east was a contributing factor to their downfall. This is an old problem all prosperous countries have faced.

But I am sympathetic for those that come to this country to try and find the American dream and are faced with bureaucratic red tape and high bills to get through them.

I can't be mad at these people for trying to find better opportunities for their families. They don't mean to make it harder on everybody else, or anybody else. They are not a boogey man looking to hurt somebody. They are just normal people with the same concerns we all have....I cannot blame a man for looking for a better life for his children....I blame the system that makes him struggle to the point that he just gives up.

Yeah, but take "him" and multiply "him" by a few million.

Kinda changes things.

It's kinda funny, about a year ago now, I was walking and saw a church clothing give away, and I met a white carpenter/roofer that was staying at the salvation army. I looked at his shoes and he had some shoddy sneakers, so I told him I'd meet him at the salvation army shelter and gave him the first pick out of probably 6-8 pairs of boots I owned. I gave him the sack and told him to give the rest out. I looked on and realized that the crowd that surrounded him were predominantly hispanic.

Now there's talk that that salvation army might be closing down due to lack of funds.

That's about 80 beds gone, and countless meals that won't be given out.

I don't believe we have the infrastructure to handle such an inflated number of impoverished for such an extended period of time, and I don't see it becoming top priority as we try to pull ourselves out of this recession.

This idea that we can just leave the border open to anyone and everyone, is absurd.

This goes regardless of amnesty or deportation, neither will work if the border isn't made secure.

[dewilliams2]

Who do we send away and who do we allow in? Who has the right to say that? What if they had said that to your ancestors?

I mean maybe I am to much of a pussy tree hugging hippie liberal but I don't think I have the right to deny anybody the opportunity to better their lives and that of their children and their children's children.

The way I figure it....those white contractors have the same opportunities at jobs as the Mexicans...if they really wanted the job they would work for the lower wage as well. Its better than nothing. And I realize some have. My mom works at Lowes and is a contracting associate...she works with contractors all day.

When any industry is diluted with excess labor force and lack of demand you will have a drop in the value of that labor.

Look at my dad, he is a mechanic....ASE certified heavy truck mechanic. But they are a dime a dozen now and he went from making 22.00 and hour to 14.00 an hour.

You are correct. This country cannot shoulder this burden as things now stand and that is why we need things to change.

The tree must be shook and the money at the top needs to find its way down. They are all sitting on it going "when are they going to spend money so I can invest my money and hire people"....we will spend our money when we have jobs.

That is why trickle down economics does not work. It makes far more sense to have a broad middle class buying many things which drives demand which ensures jobs are in need and secure.

It may sound socialist to spread the money out in a broader manner but that is what drove the prosperity in the 50s, 90s...and the recent economic boom in China.

[IndiReloaded]

Wouldn't it raise even your eyebrows a bit if the United States were putting more effort into preventing illegal immigration from Canada,

Hey, the US Fed loves us Snowbirds. We are so desperate to escape Old Man Winter that we are even willing to take an exchange hit on our hard-earned Canadabucks and support your economy. Florida, Arizona, Hawaii (esp. Maui) is FULL of Canucks in winter. Just ask ole Gordie, our BC Premier. He even got picked up for DUI a couple winters back in HI, the lush.

[dewilliams2]

Hey, the US Fed loves us Snowbirds. We are so desperate to escape Old Man Winter that we are even willing to take an exchange hit on our hard-earned Canadabucks and support your economy. Florida, Arizona, Hawaii (esp. Maui) is FULL of Canucks in winter. Just ask ole Gordie, our BC Premier. He even got picked up for DUI a couple winters back in HI, the lush.

I can't wait until I'm a disgraced politician.

I'm totally gonna nail every woman I can....but here is the twist...I'll video tape it and when it leaks and I'm kicked out of office I'll sell the sex tapes for money....boom...thats my life plan.

I'm also going to smoke some weed...and I'm going to inhale...and I'm going to like it.

I'll skip the gay intern thing.

There is a solid chance I'm going to steal money from somewhere...and bribes are a for sure thing.

Vote Williams 2022

[IndiReloaded]

LA ^ Make sure you grab this guys IP address so we can nail him later. Just imagine the upgrades to the forum we can make from his "donatiions".

Not tapes, DW. You'll be hooped with youtube and no $$$. Books are still the way to go. Ppl love reading about other ppls dirt on long, boring airplane trips. If your story is really juicy, they'll make a TV movie out of it.

[Junket]

Who do we send away and who do we allow in? Who has the right to say that? What if they had said that to your ancestors?

I mean maybe I am to much of a pussy tree hugging hippie liberal but I don't think I have the right to deny anybody the opportunity to better their lives and that of their children and their children's children.

The way I figure it....those white contractors have the same opportunities at jobs as the Mexicans...if they really wanted the job they would work for the lower wage as well. Its better than nothing. And I realize some have. My mom works at Lowes and is a contracting associate...she works with contractors all day.

You crack me up, not only are you rambling off in at least 2 different directions, but one I will address here is that, it sounds to me like you support the outsourcing of jobs to other countries. You're conflicting with yourself, you'd like a broad middle class, but at the same time, you seem to support a free market where anything goes.

I'd expand on the others but I have to go to work.

[dewilliams2]

You crack me up, not only are you rambling off in at least 2 different directions, but one I will address here is that, it sounds to me like you support the outsourcing of jobs to other countries. You're conflicting with yourself, you'd like a broad middle class, but at the same time, you seem to support a free market where anything goes.

I'd expand on the others but I have to go to work.

You can have a regulated and guided free market...they are not two polarizing issues.

I've said many times I support a form of socialism.

There is no reason to scrap everything in capitalism and no reason to scrap everything in socialism.

Once again use China for example they have mixed the two quite well and are one of the few countries to weather the economic downturn that the rest of the world felt and continues to.

Do not think of it in two concrete terms but two abstract concepts that can be merged at points.

We should pull the best out of either system in my opinion.

Also I apologize if you found my writing to be rambling. I had takin my sleeping pills by the time I wrote that....I was getting sleepy.