Before sending in my absentee ballot

[TheGreek]

"This republican government is already taking 1/3 of my check...

It's a democratic government. Dems are running the House. Needless to say, Nancy Pelosi is a stupid ****ing cunt. Everybody tries to blame the economy on the Conservatives or the Libs, but the economy is shit because broke-ass idiots bought houses they couldn't afford.

From what I read Obama is actually not as socialist as McCain ads would like people to believe. His strategies are a lot closer to Bill Clinton's centrist ideologies than socialist ones.

The real radical is McCain. He is the one who will give more of Bush. More economic problems, more US debt, more corruption, more US isolation from the rest of the world, more problems in the middle east (I don't for a second believe that "Bomb bomb bomb Iran" was a joke).

"Redistributing the wealth" is an inherent socialist ideology.

To all those that voted for McCain, thank you. I wish I could vote.

Personally, McCain wouldn't be my choice either. I wanted Ron Paul.

Final note: Sarah Palin is a complete idiot. In my opinion, McCain should've picked Lieberman.

/rant

[Mish]

"Redistributing the wealth" is an inherent socialist ideology.

Everyone pays taxes for govermnet services. If that's classified as "redistribution of wealth" then every single government on earth (including Republicans) is socialist.

[IndiReloaded]

I said it years ago and I will say it again: democracy should allow ppl to rank (say, from 1 - 10) how you want your tax dollars to be distributed. This should be part of your annual tax return, just like your tick box for supporting a political party. And those #s should be readily published and available, just like census #s.

If 80% of the population wants a kick ass military or education or socialized medicine, well, the ppl have spoken.

If that bites, then you are looking at a different system of voting, something like a weighted meritocracy, where those w/more 'qualifications' (to be determined) would be allowed more votes.

Because, really, don't you think your vote is worth more than an uneducated 18 year old, or a felon?

[Lipp]

Well, does it boil down to whether people vote for what benefits them the most or what they think would be the best for the people in the country as a whole?

Or maybe that's essentially what is achieved when everyone votes for what's best for themselves and then the greater representations of the population has the best shot at getting a favourable poll result. Until all the intricacies of politics screws it up, that is.

[Mish]

You know the other thing I don't understand in this coming US election is people's defiance to "bigger government". Bigger, massive government, when you hear it sounds like a horde of dictators and beauracrats are coming after your money, oh nooo, hide it under your bed!!!

I'm surprised that many people don't see what a "bigger" and "smaller" government means. It means government spending on infrastructure which supports everyone. Roads, collapsing bridges, pipes underneath your city, railways, schools, hospitals, fire departments, police these are all part of government. What does smaller government means? It means cut backs on all of the above. It means road disrepair, bursting pipes, starving of hospitals, fire departments, police of staff and funds they desperately need. People don't see a lot of that in the one line "massive government adlibs", but if you ask me that's a big thing to gamble away just to save a few bucks. The price is the quality of life you will be living.

[DoesntMatter]

You're right up to a certain point Mish. Once welfare programs kick in then the quality of MY life goes nowhere. Instead someone else is benefited at MY expense

The main reason I strongly dislike Obamas plans for income redistribution. The income is to be redistributed to welfare programs. Fucck that

[Lipp]

Yeah, it's far more productive to aim for a surplus and then spend in on a military campaign. [/sarcasm]

Keep on crying a river for the chance to just make 200k instead of 300k. It has to be so difficult to live without a top-notch computing rig.

[lesa]

Persuasion is an art. Isn’t it amazing? It can distract the intellect from reasoning.

[DoesntMatter]

Yeah, it's far more productive to aim for a surplus and then spend in on a military campaign. [/sarcasm]

Why the fucck did you put that there? This has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Spending money rebuilding Iraq is a waste that I don't want to see, but that is 1) a topic for another day and 2) not income redistribution. You just went on a BUNNY TRAIL

As to income: If I wanted to make $200k per year I would pursue a career that took less work. But since I'm willing to put forth MORE work to MAKE more, that money should stay in MY fuccking pocket

[Lipp]

Why the fucck did you put that there? This has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Spending money rebuilding Iraq is a waste that I don't want to see, but that is 1) a topic for another day and 2) not income redistribution. You just went on a BUNNY TRAIL

Its an example of other ways to spend tax dollars instead of welfare programs that you hate so much. Sounds is if you have a preference of that it should all go to something that just benefits you, and not what benefits a lot of others.

As to income: If I wanted to make $200k per year I would pursue a career that took less work. But since I'm willing to put forth MORE work to MAKE more, that money should stay in MY fuccking pocket

The thing is, if you already make $250k a year you're settled and still wont get taxed as much, and if you want to make money beyond that you're aiming for living beyond a "good" standard of living and don't need help from government programs since you're already doing well, but if you want to live in excess there's a price to pay for it, and I'd much rather see a government that collects taxes and uses it to boost those who have it worst and provide it with the same chance to succeed that you've got, rather than promote you to hoard the cash while people continue to live in the gutter.

[DoesntMatter]

1) I'm not interested in something that benefits "just me." Maintaing roads and school districts benefits EVERYONE. THAT is what I want. NOT things that benefit JUST you or JUST me

2) In the long run high income taxes hurt everyone. Do you think people starting their own businesses would work so hard to make it successful if they weren't going to get paid a lot at the end? If you curb their potential earnings so much they won't be motivated. These people are NEEDED because they make the economy grow and THEIR MOTIVATION gives way to NEW JOBS

[tooxshort]

I don't think it's bad to help welfare programs if your income can support it. I think it would look good for us to help out as many people as possible on a global scale and I don't think it would hurt our image to other countries. Why do I care? Because I think there's more to this country than just "making it" financially. I see poorer countries being much happier overall and that's all I could hope for. It'd be nice if people came to this country to embrace it rather than exploit it.

Does this fit in with the topic? I don't know. Something popped in my head at this moment. I voted though. I voted for Obama and I felt it better to vote for someone who had a chance of winning than having my vote be meaningless in the end.

btw ... DM, that Mike Tyson quote is hilarious (it IS Tyson, right?)

[DoesntMatter]

btw ... DM, that Mike Tyson quote is hilarious (it IS Tyson, right?)

Yeah it is. I love Mike Tyson quotes. So many people think he is stupid but he isn't. He's actually such a straight-shooter than people overlook what he says. As in he is not affected by social nuances and doesn't understand them, so he says things exactly how they are

Does this fit in with the topic? I don't know. Something popped in my head at this moment. I voted though. I voted for Obama and I felt it better to vote for someone who had a chance of winning than having my vote be meaningless in the end.

You're in California right? I'm in NY, where Obama has the second largest lead over McCain than in any other state. My vote was meaningless too. At least I might have been able to keep some Democrats out of the state government

I don't think it's bad to help welfare programs if your income can support it. I think it would look good for us to help out as many people as possible on a global scale and I don't think it would hurt our image to other countries. Why do I care? Because I think there's more to this country than just "making it" financially. I see poorer countries being much happier overall and that's all I could hope for. It'd be nice if people came to this country to embrace it rather than exploit it.

We wouldn't need welfare programs if there was a common national attitude and culture with appropriate values. People don't want to work for their money. People have horrible spending habits. People think fast food is to be taken for granted and don't think eating out twice a week is going to run deeply in your paycheck. Too many kids today aren't getting support from their parents and are being raised in daycare centers where they learn to become inconsiderate selfish little fucckers

There are a lot of problems and the root is largely social, but nothing money will fix. All a high school needs for a good education is money for text books and a chalkboard and chalk and teachers. That is it

[vashti]

We wouldn't need welfare programs if there was a common national attitude and culture with appropriate values. People don't want to work for their money. People have horrible spending habits. People think fast food is to be taken for granted and don't think eating out twice a week is going to run deeply in your paycheck. Too many kids today aren't getting support from their parents and are being raised in daycare centers where they learn to become inconsiderate selfish little fucckers

I've got to agree with you there...

[Mish]

You're right up to a certain point Mish. Once welfare programs kick in then the quality of MY life goes nowhere. Instead someone else is benefited at MY expense

The main reason I strongly dislike Obamas plans for income redistribution. The income is to be redistributed to welfare programs. Fucck that

You know this is one of the other things that I don't understand DM. I know that you consider yourself to be a good Christian. You always defend your Religion from attacks, which is good from my point of view. But charity is considered one of the seven pillars of Christianity and kindness and generosity are two of the seven virtues. In the New Testament Jesus goes out of his way to help out the poor, he teaches to help the poor with everything one has. There are various passages in the New Testament that hint the doors to heaven will be closed to those who aren't charitable. This is what I don't understand, you are a Christian and yet you appear to be so closed to any welfare program designed to help out the poor for just a small fraction of the tax money. How can you be a Christian and at the same time be so opposed to a charity program? The way I see it these are the opposite points of view.