Making female friends. I wanna be in the friend zone.

[searock]

And everyone else in that video. At least the women. The guys seemed to live in the Newtonian World. Interesting how the women responded when their beliefs were put to the reality test tho.

Yeah, all those women knew that their "friends" were actually attracted to them. Thing is, if a guy is visibly attracted to me, I tend to keep them at a distance, unless I'm interested in him as well (and I'm single). I know from first hand experience how painful it can be, to fall for a close friend and not be reciprocated. That's why I pay extra attention to not get myself in a similar situation, on either side.

In retrospect, I now see how the whole thing about the close friend of mine falling "in love" with me could have been avoided. He was going through a very difficult period (he had almost died from a missed suicide, he is bipolar), and I wanted to help him by being there for him, talking with him etcetera. I ended up making him suffer even more in the long run: he probably wouldn't have gotten so obsessed with me if we hadn't kept in contact so often, especially when he was so vulnerable. I know that it's because of his illness that he suffers so much, but still, I could've been more considerate and not get involved in something I clearly was helpless (and clueless) in. At least I know what NOT to do if something similar occurs again (I hope it never does!).

I'm with Haxan, but acknowledge we are all coloured by our experiences. Thx may be right, there is his self-fulfilling prophecy point. Perhaps Searock you don't attract, deliberately, male friends of the sort that would be attracted to you. Perhaps that is different from most women, who like the attention but won't admit it (that video). Time will tell, Searock. :-)

As for now, I remain pretty sure that they aren't attracted to me - I mean, they've even seen me in a bikini and even then they didn't look at me "that way"... it was as if I were a guy, really. I mean, guys are guys, if there's a girl in a bikini in front of them and they like her, it shows..! I just hope it stays this way, I would be sad if our friendship were to change. But yeah, time will tell :-)!

I also agree with THX's point about it being a self-fulfilling prophecy. All the people I know who are 100% convinced that men and women can't be friends actually have no friends of the opposite sex. All those (male and female) who believe in male/female friendship, have! It might be just coincidence, but I don't think it is. It's more like denying that something can happen, therefore, based on this belief, you put yourself in a disposition that precludes the possibility of it happening at all.

Women/men, don't just go out to dinner, have cookout-movie nights and talk about the intimate and personal details of their lives as 'friends' without someone (or both) wanting it all.

Obviously I wouldn't go out for an intimate dinner with a guy friend of mine, nor would I invite them over to my place to spend the night, but I would grab a pizza and watch a movie - even drink beer - with them, as I would with a female friend... as long as no relationship boundaries are broken (for example, things like that shouldn't occur frequently), there's nothing wrong (or strange) with it :-).

[smackie9]

I'm serious. In your opinion, outside of homosexuality, what are men and women here for? To join bowling leagues and drink beer together?

And yes some do! and some join a slow pitch baseball beer league, also (being Canadian) there are mixed curling beer leagues. I know lots of single and attached people do this to extend their social circle. They have a common interest and they hang out after their games. They have charity events, parties, bbqs...been to some of them myself, and they are a lot of fun. So yes joining a group or club is the best way to make friends of the opposite sex.

[vashti]

I used to believe in "friendship" between males and females, but over time, my opinions changed, both due to personal experience, and also from watching my son and all his friends interact with females. You learn a lot by watching kids.

I do believe that a lot of girls actually believe these males are their friends, though. lol

[smackie9]

I know where THX is coming from. He wants to know how and where do you set up the proper boundaries to develop such friendships. It can be determined by asking oneself "Does this look like a date?" "What other way can this be more platonic?"

Here is my list of do's and don'ts.

Don't go out for dinners or movies.....that's dating.

Do go out with a group. A mixed group of men, women, single and married, etc.

If you do go out alone, keep it short, like go for a drink, talk for about an hour, go your separate ways.

Don't hold hands, no hugging (unless they announce something special or tragic has happened to them). Treat them like you would a guy. You don't hug your guy friend when he goes to leave do ya? no. Always avoid the touchy feely stuff.

Do a hand shake, high 5 or knuckles, pat on the shoulder or nothing to keep it neutral....that's what I do anyways.

Don't invite them to hang out at your place or go to theirs alone.

Do invite them if you are having a dinner party, bbq etc.

Don't text each other constantly or chat til the wee hours of the night.....that is taking it to an intimate, emotional level...you want to avoid that.

Don't get too personal. It's best to talk about topics of common interests only. Remember to keep conversations on track.

Do (if applicable) meet and get to know their spouse/partner. If they keep you from meeting them, that is a red flag of all sorts. You definitely don't want to go there.

searock has it right.....going out and spending time together shouldn't occur frequently. Focusing on them too much will send the wrong signal and people will talk especially if it's someone you work with. Try to avoid being the subject of office gossip. I have been a victim of this and had to set the record straight a few times. There are a lot of people who have haxan's perspective on this....it's quite tiresome.

[smackie9]

I used to believe in "friendship" between males and females, but over time, my opinions changed, both due to personal experience, and also from watching my son and all his friends interact with females. You learn a lot by watching kids.

I do believe that a lot of girls actually believe these males are their friends, though. lol

The key word is kids. At this stage in their life yes boys have 100% sexual motivation and girls are stupid to think that it's friendship. But as one gets into their late twenties and up, attitudes,and priorities change (for most, not all), and it isn't all about sex, they discover (through maturity) the need for intellectual stimuli.

[searock]

I second everything smackie said about the do's and don'ts. Especially the points about entirely avoiding physical contact, I thought it went without saying, but it's actually a good thing to point out. Way too many people think it's ok to be all touchy-feely with their "friends", while it's clear to everybody that they're having at least an emotional affair. "Treat them like you would a guy" is the best advice possible for these things, IMO.

The only thing I don't entirely agree with is perhaps the point about not talking about personal life. As long as it's perfectly clear to both persons that the relationship is purely platonic and friendly, I think it's OK to touch personal issues as well. For example, sometimes I talk about my relationship with my guy friends, and they about theirs. We exchange opinions and "stories", as I would with a female friend. Our love life is NOT the primary topic of our conversations (make sure it stays that way).

Also, make sure (it's very important) that your friend doesn't become your *primary* confidant and emotional support. You can share personal, but still casual, conversations. If you are deeply unsatisfied with your romantic relationship (not just small arguments but serious relationship issues), talk about it with your partner - NOT your friend.

I would also add another point: if you start noticing something different in your friendship, for example you start feeling attracted to her or you notice that she might be attracted to you (it can happen, unfortunately, even amongst two persons who didn't find each other attractive at first), pull back immediately, and keep your distance. You can still be friendly acquaintances, but unless you are open to taking it to another level, it's best to keep yourself the least emotionally involved as possible. In some cases, if you've taken it too far and have a crush on them, or they have a crush on you, or the crush is mutual and you are having an emotional affair, you need to break contact entirely, and not look back. Just make sure it never reaches that point, and it will be fine :-). It's an unlikely possibility anyway - generally, one knows straight away whether they are attracted to someone or not, and they won't change their minds just like that.

[smackie9]

Personal is ok if you have known them for awhile and yes that the friendship is established. You are right, don't let them or you become their emotional support 100%.I usually bitch about silly things about my spouse and vise versa BUT I do restrict intimate details. You really have to be careful what you tell them if they are a part of your social group at work...the threat of gossip is always there. It's best to keep the details to a minimum.

Yes I agree you have to be on the look out for changes, and know to pull back. Sometimes you have to say something about it if distancing yourself doesn't work.

I hope this works for you THX.

[searock]

Yes, avoiding intimate details is extremely important too. You really don't want to get too emotionally involved: even if you aren't attracted to them, feelings can bring physical attraction with them. So be careful about that.

I'm glad I'm not the only "rare exception" here after all ;-).

[haxan]

I know where THX is coming from. He wants to know how and where do you set up the proper boundaries to develop such friendships. It can be determined by asking oneself "Does this look like a date?" "What other way can this be more platonic?"

Here is my list of do's and don'ts (my note: which are endless)

I second everything smackie said about the do's and don'ts

lol, that's too much you guys. If that's the rules you have to put in place to be true friends with a male smackie, he'd never have time to understand them all and provide friendship ! And searock agrees with them all (of course).

There's no rules and boundaries for being real, true friends in life. I have none with my male friends. I don't have to tell them to watch EVERYTHING they do so we can hang out, I don't have to tell them ANYTHING to do or not do.

It's hilarious guys, really. If vashti or Indi and I were "true" friends, we wouldn't have to say no blockbuster nights, no sleepovers, no touching, no looking, no hugging. We'd just frickin' be friends ! Those things wouldn't have boundaries, guidelines or rules. Just accept it, you can't win this debate. It's not us trying to say oh we're right, you're wrong. It's the way the world is, we're just saying you're probably a bit too young and/or naive to have figured it out yet, or at least accepted it.

[searock]

My guy friends "understand" those "rules" perfectly - we've never discussed them! They just come natural. Not once have I had to actually *tell* a guy friend of mine what to do or not do. LOL! We know what feels right and what feels wrong naturally. That's actually what I meant when I warned the OP of being prepared to pull back as soon as he notices something different. As soon as something starts feeling "wrong", it's time to pull back.

Persons living in any society will have social rules. The great majority of them are untold rules. You have rules and boundaries with your male friends, too. Or would it be ok to, say, make out with their girlfriend? Talk behind their back? Etc... I'm sure you "understand" these "rules" with no need to discuss them. You know what feels right and what doesn't. The fact that the "rules" for male-male friendship are different from those for male-female (or female-female, for that matter) friendship doesn't mean that male-female (or female-female) friendship cannot exist.

Why do you find it so difficult to accept that things aren't the same for everybody in the world, hax? :-)

[smackie9]

Ya I agree I never had to put forth a list to anyone I'm friends with....the boundaries work out to be mutual...I'm just speaking from what I have experienced and that are just personal guidelines I use and have worked for me... just giving him pointers on how to deal with situations to prevent any misconceptions. He can do whatever he feels are necessary to work through his situations. Like searock says, things are not the same for everybody in the world.

THX asked for our opinions, but it is up to him not you to decide what advice he wishes to use.

[haxan]

Why do you find it so difficult to accept that things aren't the same for everybody in the world, hax? :-)

Don't go out for dinners or movies.....

If you do go out alone, keep it short, like go for a drink, talk for about an hour, go your separate ways.

Don't hold hands, no hugging (unless they announce something special or tragic has happened to them)

Don't invite them to hang out at your place or go to theirs alone.

Don't text each other constantly or chat til the wee hours of the night.....

Don't get too personal. It's best to talk about topics of common interests only.

Homosexuality aside, things 'are' the same for everyone when it comes to the natural instincts of a male/female relationship.

I disagree with EVERY SINGLE ONE of smackie's don'ts, if it's applied to someone that I would call a true friend. If I can't do any of those things with them, then I'm sorry searock (and smackie), we're NOT friends, just friendly acquaintances.

God, can you imagine what a boring, lifeless friendship that would be following those 'unwritten' rules. No one would even bother...lol

Haxan: Hey searock, wanna go to go grab a bite, hit a movie and come over and check out the new guitar I bought the other day.

Searock: Well, no not really (think to yourself, it breaks every unspoken rule)

Haxan: hanging up phone (think to myself, wow what a pal)

Geez, where do I sign up for this friendship :-P

[smackie9]

To note: THX situation is different from all of ours. He wants some pointers on how to make it work for him because he doesn't know how to make it so that it's just a friendship. Haxan you have a lot of experience to control things from going too far. You obviously have it worked out enough that you can have sleep overs or movie nights which is fine. Not all of us can do that. It's something that is played by ear and the type of person you are dealing with for sure.

The advice given is just to get him started. Once he can establish his friendships he can stretch out his boudaries, depending how comfortable he is with it.

[searock]

Homosexuality aside, things 'are' the same for everyone when it comes to the natural instincts of a male/female relationship.

I disagree with EVERY SINGLE ONE of smackie's don'ts, if it's applied to someone that I would call a true friend. If I can't do any of those things with them, then I'm sorry searock (and smackie), we're NOT friends, just friendly acquaintances.

God, can you imagine what a boring, lifeless friendship that would be following those 'unwritten' rules. No one would even bother...lol

Haxan: Hey searock, wanna go to go grab a bite, hit a movie and come over and check out the new guitar I bought the other day.

Searock: Well, no not really (think to yourself, it breaks every unspoken rule)

Haxan: hanging up phone (think to myself, wow what a pal)

Geez, where do I sign up for this friendship :-P

I would say "Sure, you say the time! Is it ok if I invite *other friends*?" (or however you say that it informal english, I'm not a native) and I'd be glad to meet up with my buddy ;-).

Obviously if it somehow felt wrong or if I heard in your voice that you mean it as "more" than a friendly meet up, or if you invited me over like every other night, I would say no! But from the way you phrased it in your post, I see no unspoken rule broken :-). Oh, btw, I wouldn't sleep over at a guy friend's house, that's just one of my personal rules (other people might be ok with it, personally I'd rather not sleep at guy's places unless I'm in a relationship with them).

[haxan]

I would say "Sure, you say the time"

You said you agree with smackie's do's and don'ts. No dinner, no movies, alone time must be kept short and no visits to their place. You're contradicting yourself, searock. How would it feel wrong, or you hear something different in my voice if we're FRIENDS ! I wouldn't be looking for more, right? How can you be friends with a man when you're constantly on edge about suggestive behavior...c'mon you guys, give it up ! lol

Men and women can't truly be 'friends'. Generic friendly acquaintances of course, but that's it. Too much else is 'going on'.