Is he only interested in sex?

[sadie_genie]

Ahh....thanks! Ive been wondering about this though. After my divorce and a failed business from the economic collapses, Im basically starting out from scratch....Im in my late 30s as well.

She is simply treating you as you have treated her.

[davedlt]

Interesting argument going on. I will give my opinions...

Some women prefer a big penis to a suit. Some prefer a suit to a big penis. For some it is not an issue. Some want both.

Some women use their vaginas as a bartering tool (a lot of them would not like to admit it even though they do). Some don't.

There is nothing wrong with wanting a man with a big penis, or a suit, or neither, or both. There is nothing wrong with using your vagina as a bartering tool, or as a weapon, or as both, or as neither. But like everything, you get the results of what you choose. So it is not someone else's fault if you get the short end of the deal in the vagina barter, or when you use your vagina as a weapon, a more effective weapon is used back on you. It was your choice.

A reference to PUA websites (for those who don't know, PUA stands for pick up artist) - there is nothing wrong with quoting from their websites or the stuff they teach. In my experience they know a lot more about how relationships really work than the university trained relationship counsellors (and I've spent a lot of time with both of them). That being the case, there still are some limiting beliefs and ideas I think they have. Mainly to do with the idea that all men and all women behave a particular way which is because of evolutionary psychology hardwiring. I disagree with that concept personally.

It is interesting that the theme of bartering with your vagina has come up, because that is what is going on here. There is nothing wrong with determining only to put out after you have got your commitment. You have a right to choose that if you want, as someone (I have lost track of who exactly, my apologies) said. But don't be surprised if the result of it is a guy faking a commitment until he gets the sex and then is out of there. He simply played the same game.

It is interesting how many people see relationships as a barter system. They see it about you have needs, and the other person has needs, and so the relationship is about finding a good barter system where you both get your needs satisfied by the other one. So then there becomes a no move situation where one wants their needs met first, and then they will put out, or give the other person what they want. But the other person wants their needs met first, and then they will respond. It would work perfectly if only the other person moved first. And of course these people would say that a relationship is a kind of give and take system where you may have to sacrifice for the other person, but hopefully it goes both ways and they sacrifice a bit for you.

So when the relationship breaks up, both people say the same thing. That they gave and gave and gave, but didn't get back.

Relationships don't have to be that way. They can be a mutual sharing of what both people want. So when both people want a commitment they have a commitment. When both people want sex they have sex. They are both giving and getting at the same time. My advice is that that is the best way to go. So if you are in a situation where you wonder if the other person just wants sex while you want a commitment, find someone you know wants a commitment instead of trying to figure out a way of bartering sex for a commitment.

[sadie_genie]

Interesting argument going on. I will give my opinions...

Some women prefer a big penis to a suit. Some prefer a suit to a big penis. For some it is not an issue. Some want both.

Yes, there are exceptions. But a majority of women would prioritize success/wealth over a physically appealing man if they have to choose between the two.

But don't be surprised if the result of it is a guy faking a commitment until he gets the sex and then is out of there. He simply played the same game.

Who is more likely to be committed? A man who put large investment into a woman or one who didn't? If he put ALL that work into a woman to just get laid, not too bad what she gets out of it.

It is interesting how many people see relationships as a barter system. They see it about you have needs, and the other person has needs, and so the relationship is about finding a good barter system where you both get your needs satisfied by the other one. So then there becomes a no move situation where one wants their needs met first, and then they will put out, or give the other person what they want. But the other person wants their needs met first, and then they will respond. It would work perfectly if only the other person moved first.

Yup, that can happen. It depends on who needs it more. A women who isn't in desperation to get a mate usually wins. Those are also the type of women who are most appealing to men.

Relationships don't have to be that way. They can be a mutual sharing of what both people want. So when both people want a commitment they have a commitment. When both people want sex they have sex. They are both giving and getting at the same time.

That works good if two people are already committed. But the OP's situation is different. She is in the initial stage of attraction. She haven't even caught the guy yet. So, in her case, I think resistance is a better strategy. If he can't take up her resistance, then he doesn't deserve her. If he can, she got herself a good guy.

[olivia_xo]

oh wow. my first ever post on this forum and i seem to of created a massive debate. oh well, everyone seems to be enjoying it haha.
but thanks for the other replies related the the OT, advice has been taken in.

[davedlt]

Yes, there are exceptions. But a majority of women would prioritize success/wealth over a physically appealing man if they have to choose between the two.

Maybe. Maybe not. But as far as a guy is concerned though, if he is physically appealing but does not have success/wealth, there are still more than enough women to find him attractive. If he has wealth and success but not physical appeal there are more than enough women to find him attractive. If he has both, he has women who find both attractive. If he has neither, there are still more than enough women who will find him attractive on other grounds.

Who is more likely to be committed? A man who put large investment into a woman or one who didn't? If he put ALL that work into a woman to just get laid, not too bad what she gets out of it.

I agree that the best way to win this game is to make sure the other person invests more in you than you do in them. I agree that if you play this game right you can get the other person to invest so much in you that they become desperate to get their return on investment that you have them wrapped around your little finger. But you are still playing the game of trying to get what you want by having more power than the person you are in a relationship with, or getting into a relationship with. There is nothing wrong with playing this game and you have every right to play it, but again you get the results of your choice. So all you need is someone to come along who can play this game better than you and be able to fake an investment enough to give you the confidence to over-invest yourself, and then he has the advantage. Not only that, but if you are winning the game, it is only a matter of time before your partner gets jack of losing and gets wise to it and starts turning the tables on you.

That works good if two people are already committed. But the OP's situation is different. She is in the initial stage of attraction. She haven't even caught the guy yet

If anything, it is even more important in the initial stage, before a relationship begins, when it is easy to walk away. You can start a relationship based on mutual sharing or you can start a relationship based on trying to have more power than the other person. More times than not the way you start will be the way the relationship continues (there are some exceptions). If you start a relationship based on having more power than the other person, you will have power struggles all through your relationship. If you start by actually loving each other and sharing together the things you both want, the relationship will continue that way and you won't have the fears of your partner leaving you or cheating on you or doing anything sneaky against you behind your back. From what I've seen in people, the difference between whether a person can start this way or not depends on whether they are confident that if someone shows interest in them but it is not what they want, they will still have other people interested in them to choose from. When people don't have this confidence, they seem to think that whenever they get some interest from someone, that is the only chance they will get and they have to do anything to make it happen. So it becomes more practical for them to just figure out ways of securing the person rather than seeing if a good relationship would or would not result from being with them.

I think resistance is a better strategy. If he can't take up her resistance, then he doesn't deserve her. If he can, she got herself a good guy.

Does this work round the other way? Should some good advice to the guy in this situation be to put up some resistance around making a commitment? If the OP can't take up his resistance and give him sex without a commitment, does that mean she doesn't deserve him? Should she take up the resistance to a commitment and then she would be a good girl for the guy to have?

[ShellyZ]

If you start by actually loving each other and sharing together the things you both want, the relationship will continue that way and you won't have the fears of your partner leaving you or cheating on you or doing anything sneaky against you behind your back.

This would be ideal, but it's difficult because people are not always honest. This only works if both people want the same thing, but how do you know that your partner wants the same thing as you? Plenty of people will lie to get what they want.

[sadie_genie]

If anything, it is even more important in the initial stage, before a relationship begins, when it is easy to walk away. You can start a relationship based on mutual sharing or you can start a relationship based on trying to have more power than the other person. More times than not the way you start will be the way the relationship continues (there are some exceptions). If you start a relationship based on having more power than the other person, you will have power struggles all through your relationship. If you start by actually loving each other and sharing together the things you both want, the relationship will continue that way and you won't have the fears of your partner leaving you or cheating on you or doing anything sneaky against you behind your back. From what I've seen in people, the difference between whether a person can start this way or not depends on whether they are confident that if someone shows interest in them but it is not what they want, they will still have other people interested in them to choose from. When people don't have this confidence, they seem to think that whenever they get some interest from someone, that is the only chance they will get and they have to do anything to make it happen. So it becomes more practical for them to just figure out ways of securing the person rather than seeing if a good relationship would or would not result from being with them.



Does this work round the other way? Should some good advice to the guy in this situation be to put up some resistance around making a commitment? If the OP can't take up his resistance and give him sex without a commitment, does that mean she doesn't deserve him? Should she take up the resistance to a commitment and then she would be a good girl for the guy to have?

LOL. "Mutual sharing" is just a sugar-coated way to get sex before commitment. No honorable man will argue that a girl does not deserve commitment until she shares her body with him. It is not about who has more power over the other. It is about women respecting her own body and having some kind of standard before she lets him go between her legs.

This would be ideal, but it's difficult because people are not always honest. This only works if both people want the same thing, but how do you know that your partner wants the same thing as you? Plenty of people will lie to get what they want.

Exactly! Words of commitment means nothing without the actions of commitment and investment backing it up.

[HeartIsAching]

This would be ideal, but it's difficult because people are not always honest. This only works if both people want the same thing, but how do you know that your partner wants the same thing as you? Plenty of people will lie to get what they want.

You do that with some adult characteristics and habits... mainly honesty, communication and trust. Without those, you might as well hang it up, it's not a relationship worth keeping. If you don't have that, you've got nothing.

[ShellyZ]

You do that with some adult characteristics and habits... mainly honesty, communication and trust. Without those, you might as well hang it up, it's not a relationship worth keeping. If you don't have that, you've got nothing.

Two people can't communicate honestly if only one person is being honest. And dishonest people like to pretend they're honest, which means honest people often get screwed over if they trust too soon. Haven't you ever been lied to before?

[HeartIsAching]

Two people can't communicate honestly if only one person is being honest. And dishonest people like to pretend they're honest, which means honest people often get screwed over if they trust too soon. Haven't you ever been lied to before?

And that's the point. If she doesn't have that, then she doesn't have a relationship worth preserving. Period.

[ShellyZ]

Usually people don't realize they're being lied to. They think there is honest communication in their relationship, and so they think the relationship is worth preserving. That's the anatomy of a lie; it can be very convincing. We're not mind readers. It's not always easy to spot a liar.

[davedlt]

So where are we here?...

This would be ideal, but it's difficult because people are not always honest. This only works if both people want the same thing, but how do you know that your partner wants the same thing as you? Plenty of people will lie to get what they want.

It's good that you understand that it is possible. If this quality of relationship is important to you and you focus on having it, you will figure out a way to get it and to find out if your partner wants the same thing as you and is not lying. And you will have a relationship exactly as you want it.

LOL. "Mutual sharing" is just a sugar-coated way to get sex before commitment.

What about mutually sharing a commitment?

Believe it or not, there are a number of men out there who want a committed relationship, and who even only want sex in a committed relationship (I used to be one of them). Who, if given the choice between having sex with no committment, or having sex only when there is a commitment, all else being equal would choose the sex with the commitment over the one without the commitment.

That is why it is a waste of time trying to play games to get a guy to commit when there is enough guys out there who would be quite willing to commit without needing any games or manipulation.

Believe it or not, there are a number of women out there who want sex with no commitment, who prefer 'no strings attached' to a relationship any day. For the guys who want sex with no commitment, these are the ones to go for. If a guy asked me how he could get into a girl's pants who wants a commitment first but he doesn't, I would tell him to let go of her and go for one of these girls instead.

No honorable man will argue that a girl does not deserve commitment until she shares her body with him.

I totally agree. The same way no honorable (high-self esteem) man will ever argue that a guy (or girl) doesn't deserve sex until he has made a commitment.

That is because the high self-esteem man knows that everyone deserves to have exactly what they want. He knows that it is not true that wanting a commitment is right or better, while wanting sex with no commitment is wrong or worse. He knows that if someone wants sex with no commitment, that is just as valid as someone who wants sex with a commitment. He also knows that guys and girls are equal, and it is not a guy's job to sacrifice what he wants to give a girl what she wants, anymore than it should be round the other way. The high self-esteem man knows that there is always opportunity to find someone who is a perfect match for you in sharing what you both want. Because of that, the high self-esteem man never tries to focus on ways of making someone change their mind on what they want so it is more in line with what he wants. He respects what other people want as much as he respects what he wants, even if it is different.

It is about women respecting her own body and having some kind of standard before she lets him go between her legs.

I think everyone, men and women, should have this if they want to have their relationships (and everything else in their life) go as good as possible for them. But the standard does not have to be a commitment if the man or the woman doesn't want it to be. It is not the case that whenever a woman has sex with a man with no commitment that he has used her and disrespected her body. It is not the case that whenever a woman has sex with a man she has done him a favour and now he owes her. In all the ongoing sexual relationships I have had (obviously not counting the 1 night stands) the woman I was with ended up wanting sex more than I did. I never had reason to believe that sex was a one-sided favour a man was doing for a woman. If a woman decides to have fun with her body and have sex with a guy with no commitment, she is not disrespecting her body. If the standard a woman has for herself is to have a commitment from a guy before she lets him go between her legs, and a guy was trying to manipulate his way in without a commitment, I would advise her to let him go asap. The same way if a guy had a standard for himself that a woman has no strings attached to sex, before he lets her have him between her legs, and she starts trying to manipulate him into a commitment, I would advise him to let her go asap.

You do that with some adult characteristics and habits... mainly honesty, communication and trust. Without those, you might as well hang it up, it's not a relationship worth keeping. If you don't have that, you've got nothing.

Exactly. These three qualities come from high self-esteem. There is a reason why it is hard to get a high self-esteem guy or girl to commit when he/she doesn't want to and that is because when they say they are choosing to only be with that one person and be loyal and caring even if things go sour, and not get with anyone else, is because when they say it they actually MEAN it. It is not something they say just to get sex or whatever. It is a big thing they have really thought about and are serious about it, otherwise they wouldn't give their word on it. You can't get a high self-esteem guy or girl to commit by trying to get him/her to invest so much that they feel they need to continue. Their word and their honesty is more important to them than that.

- The rest of the quotes are on the theme of it being hard to find or be with an honest person -

When you have high self-esteem, and you value yourself, your choices, the things you want in life, the way you are treated,etc, honesty comes naturally. It comes naturally because when you have high self-esteem the things you think and want you value enough to communicate them authentically. So if you find someone with high self-esteem, who values himself, his life, etc, but at the same time doesn't put other people down to get what they want, you have more than likely found an honest guy. If you are that high self-esteem person yourself, you will find other high self-esteem people no worries.

[ShellyZ]

It's good that you understand that it is possible. If this quality of relationship is important to you and you focus on having it, you will figure out a way to get it and to find out if your partner wants the same thing as you and is not lying. And you will have a relationship exactly as you want it.

I know. I've had wonderful relationships like this. And I've figured out a great way to get it: Take it slow, proceed with caution. I wait a long time for sex, and so I easily weed out the men who don't want a relationship.

That is why it is a waste of time trying to play games to get a guy to commit when there is enough guys out there who would be quite willing to commit without needing any games or manipulation.

I don't think anyone is suggesting playing games to get what you want. Many people believe that a woman who waits for sex is playing games or being manipulative, but she's not. She just prefers to wait. Personally, I don't wait for sex because I'm trying to get a guy to commit. I wait for sex because I'm waiting to find out if he will commit. That takes time; you can't expect a person to commit to a relationship within the first few weeks of dating. During that time, I'm still trying to decide if I want to be in a relationship with the guy.

The same way no honorable (high-self esteem) man will ever argue that a guy (or girl) doesn't deserve sex until he has made a commitment.

Deserve sex? It's not a reward for good behavior. It's something to be shared between two people. It's not like "Here, you've been good, so I'll give you sex now."

That is because the high self-esteem man knows that everyone deserves to have exactly what they want.

Everyone? I've known some truly terrible people who have done horrible things. I don't think they deserve to get whatever they want.

The rest of the quotes are on the theme of it being hard to find or be with an honest person

I don't think it's hard to find an honest person, I just think it's hard to determine if a person is honest or dishonest when you've just met. You can't tell right away, you have to get to know them first. Given enough time, it's easy to find out what kind of person they are. The problem is, most people don't wait long enough to discover their partner's true personality. This is an advantage of waiting for sex. I know the guy is honest BEFORE we have sex, because we've gotten to know each other first. I like it that way. No one is being punished or manipulated, and everyone is happy.

[HeartIsAching]

Exactly. These three qualities come from high self-esteem.

Wrong.

Those qualities come from respect - both for yourself and for the other person. I am completely incapable of lying to my wife, even a lie of omission, because I have far too much respect for her to lie.

[HeartIsAching]

Deserve sex? It's not a reward for good behavior. It's something to be shared between two people. It's not like "Here, you've been good, so I'll give you sex now."

But that's exactly what you've been arguing.