Does psychotherapy encourage self-absorption?

[ecojeanne]

lol good point about the comma's. hehe i didn't notice, i ran outta breath reading it again

[starbuck]

Starbuck, I think what Vash is saying is that short-term therapy/counseling for "normal" (as in not having a serious chemical imbalance in your brain that prevents you from ever functioning normally) is one thing, but to depend on it over time, after your problems have been "solved" and you continue is can nurture unhealthy self-absorption.

Yeah I understand what she's saying, just not sure I agree with her 100%.

Some people are "healthy" but prone to depression. Some are prone to anger or anxiety or have a severe phobia. Normal, high-functioning people can have reoccuring emotional problems. Could therapy help? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not quite sure I can see how it hurts.

Do some people develop unhealthy tendencies from too much therapy? I'm sure they do. But I've also known people who develop unhealthy tendencies from things like yoga. I know a woman who got a hernia from pushing herself too far into a position while not listening to her body. She ended up doing this twice, as a matter of fact.

But back to the therapy issue, what if you have no wise friends or family to talk to? Or, even worse, your friends and family are more messed up than you? Or you'd like to keep your problems private?

[Lipp]

I reckon that talking to a complete stranger who knows what s/he's doing can be quite a relief, just got to make sure that it's not one that is in it for the money and gives bullshit advice.

[Yggdrasil]

I'm totaly against pill pushers when it comes to therapy, except for the really heavy duty cases.

There are better methods such as for example mindfulness training, which is becomming more and more accepted in neuroscience and is backed up by research.

[vashti]

just got to make sure that it's not one that is in it for the money and gives bullshit advice.

They are ALL in it for the money (and I'm not sure why that would be a bad thing). That's how they pay they bills... people pay them to be their friend.

[BillyGalbreath]

I, for one, believe that a therapist shouldn't do anything. They are most useful when they do not offer advice, nor do they offer drugs. Drugs and advice are the worst things a person with help need.

I have been classified by many people as being someone that needs to see a therapist, which they are 100% correct. I've got some major issues that I need to get resolved. At the same time, mind you, I am the one all my friends come to for advice with their major issues, and I've become very good at helping them. So, being in this situation I feel I am the only one that truely knows what I need, and I promise you advice and/or drugs is not what I need, nor what anyone needs.

The thing we all need is someone to listen. Thats it. We are all capable of figuring things out for ourselves, but we are unable to do so when we are trapped in our own head. We only find a solution when we are able to speak it and hear the words out loud. Sometimes we are unable to still figure it out, so its good for the listener to ask questions to get more information. Like if I'm rambling about a problem and I'm not making any sense, my listener should ask me to clarify what I mean. Or if I find a solution to a problem myself during one of my ranting session the listener should ask questions that make me question my own solution until it becomes crystal clear that is the right solution. etc etc.

Sadly, its hard to find someone willing to listen to our problems without judging or trying to give their own advice which just clouds the whole thing and often just makes things worse, thus therapists exist. However things have become so commercialized that therapists aren't real therapists anymore. They aren't there to listen. They are their to judge you and tell you how to live by giving you advice that often doesnt help or by shoving drugs down your throat that just mask the issues.

Only we have the answers to our most important questions, and only we can figure them out. Sometimes we just need the extra help to realize what our questions really are.

[Yggdrasil]

I also agree with BillyGalbreath point that a counselor or therapist should be non-judgemental and guide thought patterns by asking open ended questions.

[Lipp]

They are ALL in it for the money (and I'm not sure why that would be a bad thing). That's how they pay they bills... people pay them to be their friend.

Well, even that isn't necessarily a bad thing, provided that it's affordable and the one who goes to therapy thinks that it's worth the cost.

[Rollerderby]

Yeah I understand what she's saying, just not sure I agree with her 100%.

Some people are "healthy" but prone to depression. Some are prone to anger or anxiety or have a severe phobia. Normal, high-functioning people can have reoccuring emotional problems. Could therapy help? Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not quite sure I can see how it hurts.

Do some people develop unhealthy tendencies from too much therapy? I'm sure they do. But I've also known people who develop unhealthy tendencies from things like yoga. I know a woman who got a hernia from pushing herself too far into a position while not listening to her body. She ended up doing this twice, as a matter of fact.

But back to the therapy issue, what if you have no wise friends or family to talk to? Or, even worse, your friends and family are more messed up than you? Or you'd like to keep your problems private?

Starbuck, you are essentially asking what I asked here about where to draw the line. I agree with you.

Could you be more specific on what kind of everyday crappy situations are not reasons to see a counselor? Maybe an "if" and "then" kind of scenario like "if this person is only this crazy, no but if they have exceeded crazy by X amount, then...."

I think it's a case by case basis, but that's why it's an interesting thread. How does one define self-absorption in therapy that exceeds a healthy amount? I think successful therapy can lead to a more socially integrated individual.

[IndiReloaded]

Starbuck, I think what Vash is saying is that short-term therapy/counseling for "normal" (as in not having a serious chemical imbalance in your brain that prevents you from ever functioning normally) is one thing, but to depend on it over time, after your problems have been "solved" and you continue is can nurture unhealthy self-absorption.

Really? Huh. I thought what Vash meant was that people whine too much about stuff that is just part of normal living.

The trouble with counselling is that people expect it to actually fix problems. Just another 'quick fix' solution (just like drugs, really). Counselling doesn't work like that at all. People end up doing it for years b/c they keep waiting for answers that will never come.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR5_DvbMLJk"]YouTube - Dar Williams - "What Do You Hear In These Sounds"[/ame]

[Rollerderby]

Indi, how does this quote:

I notice that certain posters routinely encourage therapy. I'm not talking about therapy for people with genuine mental illnesses, but for relatively healthy people.

I don't really have a problem with short-term therapy to get through a rough spot here and there, and I generally think that knowing yourself is a good thing, but I guess I don't "buy" that every problem requires a therapist to solve. In fact, I think running to a therapist constantly discourages people from using common sense, and encourages self absorption (especially those who go into therapy for years and years and years).

Clash with this quote?

Starbuck, I think what Vash is saying is that short-term therapy/counseling for "normal" (as in not having a serious chemical imbalance in your brain that prevents you from ever functioning normally) is one thing, but to depend on it over time, after your problems have been "solved" and you continue is can nurture unhealthy self-absorption.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your last post, it seems to be on the same track. A few different points have been made throughout the thread. I just put her point into different words.

[Gigabitch]

What they talk about in counselling I do not know.

I think most couples' counselors are simply trying to teach people how to talk to each other. It's shocking how many couples just can't discuss things, simple things, without freaking out on each other.

in my eyes, drinking solves everything. problems are better when you have forgotten about them.. it's like sweeping the dust underneath the rug.

raverboy

I like thinking about how lumpy your rug is, Raver. It probably looks like it's got ski boots and frying pans and shit like that under it.

my parents put me in counseling as a teenager. it was so stupid. the lady would sit there and listen to me talk about how depressed i was that my father was only around to offer counseling and my mother was a cold, mean person with no soul. she would write down her notes and send me home. it had absolutely no benefit at all, except to keep me out of my parents hair for an hour a week.

One of my girlfriends got sent to therapy when she was 16. She accused her stepdad of very inappropriate behavior (coming into her room at night wearing only his tighty-whities and offering to put lotion on her sunburn, touching her all the time, etc.) and her mom tossed her right into a psychologist's office.

The doctor told her that her parents were kooks and that it wasn't her fault she got crappy parents, and to avoid her stepfather and hang tight until she was 18, gave her some numbers to call if he kept behaving like that and sent her on her way.

Frankly, I think he did a great job.

The thing we all need is someone to listen.

I think having someone help you untangle complicated emotional stuff is helpful, too, but in essence, I agree.

Question for Vashti: if you needed to talk to someone about some of the issues that usually send people running to a therapist, where would you turn? I assume you would turn to your religion. Am I right?

[Sonrisa]

Q: if you needed to talk to someone about some of the issues that usually send people running to a therapist, where would you turn? I assume you would turn to your religion. Am I right?

A: i turn to internet, books, LF or simply analyze the situation myself. never failed me yet.

[vashti]

Question for Vashti: if you needed to talk to someone about some of the issues that usually send people running to a therapist, where would you turn? I assume you would turn to your religion. Am I right?

Probably not, actually (unless it was a crisis of faith, or something). I usually turn to a sister or a friend, especially if I know one of them have had a similar issue. I tend to use my most knowledgeable resources.

[IndiReloaded]

Indi, how does this quote:





Clash with this quote?

Why don't you ask her? We've discussed this before, so I think her take is even more simple: too many 'normal' people use therapy to look for answers that are really just about experiencing (and working through) the shit that happens in life.

Vash is like me (I think) in this regard. Fairly old school. There is value in sucking up some amount of grief in one's life. Its character-building, even.

Our society (and folks like Oprah, Dr. Phil & the whole 'self-help' industry) have got us brainwashed into believing that we can all have the perfect life/job/marriage/children/retirement, etc.

Truth is, most of us will only ever achieve an imperfect reflection of our ideal. Even those of us who *do* achieve an ideal of 'perfection' in something usually only get it in one of these areas, typically at the sacrifice of another. True 'balance' is BS. Everything comes at a cost to something else.

This is life. Read my sig quote about problems.

What our society needs is more sticktoitness. I don't know how we lost that 'stiff British upper lip'. The ability to tolerate failings in ourselves & others. We all have them. Make your choices with eyes wide open & decide if the benefits of whatever situation you find yourself in is worth the drawbacks. There will always be some. If yes, carry on. If not, choose differently.

Am I restating what has already been said? Sorry, if so, I haven't read the entire thread.