Help with a complicated situation (Reader's Digest version)

[Am_I_Crazy]

I will try and make this as short as I can.

Met a girl 2-1/2 years ago. Relationship started off with a bang but in the process I became clingy/needy. She broke it off after a year and started dating someone else. Didn't see her for 6 months then all the sudden she is back in my life. I let her move in with me. We dated a whole 30 days before I could not contain myself and asked "where are we in this relationship?" She said friends. I didn't want that. She broke it off but I let her stay until she could find her own place. Two months later my mom dies. I go home to the funeral and come back she is dating another guy. The same guy she's been with for the past 7 months. I booted her from the house as this guy had the audacity to pick her up from my house!

Fast forward 5 months later. I broke no contact with her because a friend committed suicide. She agreed to meet me for lunch and we started talking on and off.

Of course, I am an idiot. After hanging out with her for a few months my feelings for her came back stronger than ever. I told her at a lunch that I still loved her and that being friends was hard.

During the whole time she is still seeing the other guy and basically living with him. When I asked if she loved him she said "I'm not sure what love is anymore because the only thing that has ever hurt me in my life is love." She spends all her free time with him and I know they get along well. The only issue is she is a Christian (yes I know, living and having sex with a guy is hypocritical) and the guy she is dating is not really spiritual. She wants to be a with a "spritual giant" according to her own words. He goes to Church with her but in my opinion I think he does it to keep her happy, not because he's deeply spiritual. He's a Marine and a grunt at that. It's his job to KILL people.

After that conversation about being friends I recalled the one deep regret I had with her. That's proposing last year but not having a ring. She mentioned one time that she didn't think I was serious because I didn't have a ring. Ok, you can guess what is coming. I bought an engagement ring, invited her to lunch, waited till lunch was over then got on one knee and proposed. It was magical, everything I believe a woman would dream about. Initially she tried to stop me but let me proceed.

When I handed her the ring I said "Don't answer now, take at least two weeks to think it over." As we parted she said she gave her best poker face (she didn't cry but sure looked like she wanted to.)

Fast forward exactly a month later. She made no attempts to contact me. Nothing. I sent her a light email just shooting the breeze and asking her if she had time for lunch. 4 days later she peeks at my web page. Still no reply. 10 days later I send her another email making fun of her not replying saying it's weird for her to pass up indian for lunch. I then mentioned that I wasn't asking her to lunch to pressure her about the ring, just to shoot the breeze.

She answers back saying she's been sick, dizzy, stressed and emotional....and that "Right now, I just need some space."

That was as of last Thursday and I am at a loss here. Yes, I brought all of this upon myself fully aware that she is dating someone else. Someone she isn't completely sure about. She has told me she loves me but isn't sure she is in love with me. That she knows I would make a great huband and I have a lot, if not all, of the qualities in a husband she is seeking.

On one hand I am in the dark here. She is not telling me anything. She has had several chances to return the ring (while her b/f was gone training). I gave her a couple invitations to lunch (to see if she might want to return the ring).

On the other hand I told her to take as much time as she needed and that she is doing.

So here's the situation. If I email her asking for answers that will be perceived as putting pressure on her (which she hates and will push her away) as well as not respecting her space.

I really just want to know if she is seriously considering my proposal or if she is just afraid to tell me no. I am the first man to ever propose to her with ring in hand.

What do I do? If I ask, I will pressure her and break the space she needs (and of course look desperate and needy).

If I don't get some idea of what she is thinking I fear I will lose it. I can't stand being left in the dark with no answers.

Please help. What is the best course of action. I don't want to push her away but at the same time my own health (mental and physical) is suffering.

If I just knew that she was seriously considering the proposal it would make the waiting easier and give me some peace of mind.

Complicated, I know. Anyone care to give their advice? (and yes, I am going to see a Counselor on weds/thurs to help me
with this).

PS: the thought has occured to me to say "You want space, I'll give you all the space you need. When can I come get the ring?" but I know if I do that it would make me a hypocrite as I told her she could take all the time she needed. Pressure will push her away but the slience is killing me.

[vashti]

I wish you had asked for our advice before you bought the engagement ring, because I would have yold you it is a very bad idea to propose to someone who is seeing someone else.

It seems rather obvious she is not going to marry you. I think you ought to call her and ask for her to give the ring back. Then you should stay away from her. She is TAKEN.

By the way, I think that marines CAN be Christian (or Muslim, or Jewish, or whatever). To everything there is a season: a time for war, a time for peace (or so it says in the "good" book).

[TAVS]

Man; you need help. Grow some testicles and move on with your life.

[Ellynn]

Yes, it wasn't the brightest idea to give her a ring when she was dating someone else.

Ok, so you gave her that ring a month ago right? You said clearly when you proposed to her that she should "take two weeks to decide yes/no." Now, shes avoiding you and a month has passed.

You do realize that more then likely shes dating other guys right? Or at least that other guy.

I'm sorry, but as a female, I would never accept a ring until I was sure and actually said YES to a proposal.

I would get that ring back, ASAP. Its not fair to you that you put your life on hold to wait for her to "decide". I think she's had plenty of time. I don't think that would be considered pressure at all. I just don't think she is ready for marriage with you or anyone else. I also don't think she sees you as someone she wants to marry and doesn't know how to tell you no. She sees you as a friend and honestly I doubt that will ever change.

I think for your sake, you should get the ring back and move on with your life. Let her go, don't contact her etc.

[Am_I_Crazy]

Man; you need help. Grow some testicles and move on with your life.

Wow, thanks for your "thoughtful" reply.....

[Am_I_Crazy]

I wish you had asked for our advice before you bought the engagement ring, because I would have yold you it is a very bad idea to propose to someone who is seeing someone else.

I bought the ring for two reasons.
1. Because I regretted not doing it the first time.
2. In a sense, closure. If she says no, I can move on. If she says yes or "maybe" then I know we have some future together.

It seems rather obvious she is not going to marry you. I think you ought to call her and ask for her to give the ring back. Then you should stay away from her. She is TAKEN.

If I do that then I will certainly be a hypocrite. I told her to take as much time as she needed.

By the way, I think that marines CAN be Christian (or Muslim, or Jewish, or whatever). To everything there is a season: a time for war, a time for peace (or so it says in the "good" book).

They can be. I have met him and know that he isn't much of one based on his actions, not his words.

[Am_I_Crazy]

Yes, it wasn't the brightest idea to give her a ring when she was dating someone else.

Ok, so you gave her that ring a month ago right? You said clearly when you proposed to her that she should "take two weeks to decide yes/no." Now, shes avoiding you and a month has passed.

Not quite. I asked her to take at least two weeks to think it over, but if she needed more time, take as much time as she needs.

You do realize that more then likely shes dating other guys right? Or at least that other guy.

Just him.

I'm sorry, but as a female, I would never accept a ring until I was sure and actually said YES to a proposal.

Then why did she take the ring. She could have said no right then. She had PLENTY of time to say no after two weeks. She passed up two opportunites to meet with me and return the ring. I realize that even if she doesn't want to marry me that she doesn't want to hurt my feelings. But I also think if you know the answer is no that you normally wouldn't drag it out this long. It's been over 6 weeks now that she has the ring.

I would get that ring back, ASAP. Its not fair to you that you put your life on hold to wait for her to "decide".

In fairness to her, I did this to myself. I dropped a bombshell on her. She wasn't expecting me to ask her to marry me.

I think she's had plenty of time. I don't think that would be considered pressure at all. I just don't think she is ready for marriage with you or anyone else. I also don't think she sees you as someone she wants to marry and doesn't know how to tell you no. She sees you as a friend and honestly I doubt that will ever change.

I think for your sake, you should get the ring back and move on with your life. Let her go, don't contact her etc.

Do you think it's unreasonable to ask her where she stands? Depending on what she says I could either give her more time to decide (if she says she doesn't know) or if she says no, I would just ask for the ring back and move on.

[TAVS]

Wow, thanks for your "thoughtful" reply.....

The truth hurts man.

[Am_I_Crazy]

The truth hurts man.

The truth does. You're not giving the truth, just an opinion.

I came here for advice on how to handle a delicate situation. If you don't have the common decency to be respectful, don't give your "truths..."

PS: I would expect a bit more common decency and courtesy from a moderator, of all people.

[TAVS]

The truth does. You're not giving the truth, just an opinion.

I came here for advice on how to handle a delicate situation. If you don't have the common decency to be respectful, don't give your "truths..."

Calm Down Bro. Quit your cryin. Just cause you dont want to see it how it is, doesnt make it my problem. You're a push over. If your woman wanted to date a woman, she would, but she dates a man. Act like one. It's in your best interest.

[Am_I_Crazy]

Calm Down Bro. Quit your cryin. Just cause you dont want to see it how it is, doesnt make it my problem. You're a push over. If your woman wanted to date a woman, she would, but she dates a man. Act like one. It's in your best interest.

Oh, she might be dating a man, but her relatives think he acts like a girl. Go figure.

Now that you have given your opinion I would like to hear from others.

By the way, as a moderator, you are breaking the forum rules:

No bashing or insult member
5)No bashing or insult member. - This is a difficult one to understand. I look at it in two categories - Beliefs and actions. In many countries, what you believe is up to you, but what you did isn't always. If I call you a blooming idiot for something you DID, that is different than telling you are a fool for agreeing with abortion. Everyone has their own beliefs, and you will hardly ever be able to change any of them on these boards. If someone has done something that only idiots would do, given the nature of common sense - say what you want within reason. However, calling someone a fool for their beliefs will not be tolerated, and will likely be faced with thread deletion and possible ban. If you believe that the rest of the world should be a Democracy, that doesn't instantly make you an idiot, but sleeping with your friend's woman might.

It's a lot of gray area, but use common sense.

Thanks and have a nice day.

[Ellynn]

Then why did she take the ring. She could have said no right then. She had PLENTY of time to say no after two weeks. She passed up two opportunites to meet with me and return the ring. I realize that even if she doesn't want to marry me that she doesn't want to hurt my feelings. But I also think if you know the answer is no that you normally wouldn't drag it out this long. It's been over 6 weeks now that she has the ring.

I wonder why she took the ring myself. Personally if I didn't want to marry the guy, I wouldn't have. Even if I was unsure, I wouldn't have. But, she did. But, keep in mind, just because she did take the ring, that doesn't mean she is considering marrying you. If she needed money she could easily pawn it. Or if she wanted to see how much you spent, she could have it appraised. I still think it is selfish of her to keep you waiting and not to at least give you the decency of an honest answer.

In fairness to her, I did this to myself. I dropped a bombshell on her. She wasn't expecting me to ask her to marry me.
True, but just because you asked her to marry you does NOT mean she had to take the ring! IF she needed time she should have told you, and rejected the ring until she was sure.


Do you think it's unreasonable to ask her where she stands? Depending on what she says I could either give her more time to decide (if she says she doesn't know) or if she says no, I would just ask for the ring back and move on.

How much time do you honestly plan on giving her? A few more weeks? A month? A year? 5 years? Chances are if she doesn't know by now what she wants, she probably never will. I don't think its unreasonable at all to ask her where she stands. Its just UNFAIR of HER to NOT give you an answer.

I don't care what her family says about the man she's dating, what you say, or anyone else for that matter. The fact is that she is with him. She obviously wants to be and theres not alot you can do to change that. Let it go. It would be doing yourself a big favor in the long run. You deserve to be with someone who can give you a straight answer and who honestly wants to be with you. If you do not believe that, then I feel bad for you.

P.S. Just read all of the above in bold to get my answers. I'm not quite sure how to take quotes and respond to them like everyone else does. So, I apoligize for that.

[Am_I_Crazy]

How much time do you honestly plan on giving her? A few more weeks? A month? A year? 5 years? Chances are if she doesn't know by now what she wants, she probably never will. I don't think its unreasonable at all to ask her where she stands. Its just UNFAIR of HER to NOT give you an answer.

I agree with you, I just don't know how much time is enough. I was thinking about sending her an email. How can I ask her where she stands without pressuring her?

I don't care what her family says about the man she's dating, what you say, or anyone else for that matter. The fact is that she is with him. She obviously wants to be and theres not alot you can do to change that. Let it go. It would be doing yourself a big favor in the long run.

I'd be able to let go if she would tell me what she is thinking. I know she is unsure of this guy so if I "let her go" or take the ring back now I will basically be telling her that I lied when I said "take as much time as you need to make a decision."

That's my dillema. I should have given her a timetable to respond but I know when we do that to people, when we back them in a corner, they will certainly do the opposite of what you want.

I just want to figure out a way to see where her head is at without "pressuring" her or yanking the ring back. She will give the ring back, that I am sure of, if I ask for it.

[Ellynn]

I see what you are saying about not wanting to pressure her.

But, she has had like 4 weeks already right?

You do realize this could turn into a very long process.

If you don't mind, then I guess your only option is to wait until things don't work out with her current bf and then she has you to fall back on. You do realize that this is whats gonna happen if you don't confront her. She will then come running back to you and things will work for awhile until she realizes deep down once again she does not feel anything more then friendship for you. The cycle will then repeat itself.

I think she is paritally to blame for leading you on. If she only thinks of you as a friend, then she should distance herself enough to let you realize that. I think that is what she is trying to do now, but still, she SHOULD return the ring.

Personally, I would confront her. Just tell her how you feel about her etc. Also, let her know that your offer still stands with wanting to be together commitment wise etc. But, until she is ready for all that, I would ask for the ring back. Because, what is the point of holding onto a ring if your not sure or you don't want to marry a person? Why would you even hold onto it if your supposidly into someone else?

If your worried about driving her away, I wouldn't. I mean how much more could you possibly drive her away? She won't even talk to you now! She makes excuses not to see you! YOu have nothing now, so whats wrong with at least confronting her and at least getting an answer out of her? You really have nothing to lose. SHE OWES THAT TO YOU!

But, I think her holding onto it is giving you false hope. I think its making you think you stand a chance with getting her to marry you. But, the facts are she is with someone else. She thinks of you as a friend, and Im sorry but if she doesn't have those feelings for you beyond friendship by now, chances are she never will.

Why would you even want to get into a marriage with someone who is so unsure of themselves? Or someone who tells you repeatedly that they don't think of you as more then a friend? I do agree that friendship is important in a relationship as well as a marriage, but you definately need more then that. Its just not there on her part. You cannot force someone to feel that. Even if you do buy them a shiny enagagement ring or any other material things. Money just doesn't buy love or at least the true kind.

I know you don't like what you are hearing, but its the truth. Thats the thing about this board, we tell you our honest opinions. Some are more blunt then others. But, if the same message seems to be coming thru, then maybe you ought to consider what we are saying.

[Am_I_Crazy]

I see what you are saying about not wanting to pressure her.

But, she has had like 4 weeks already right?

Actually this Friday will be 7.

You do realize this could turn into a very long process.

Yes, and I am unfortunately deeply in love with her. I wish I wasn't so that I could move on. FYI I am going to see a Counselor on Weds for a few hours. I won't say anything to her until I have talked his ear off

If you don't mind, then I guess your only option is to wait until things don't work out with her current bf and then she has you to fall back on. You do realize that this is whats gonna happen if you don't confront her. She will then come running back to you and things will work for awhile until she realizes deep down once again she does not feel anything more then friendship for you. The cycle will then repeat itself.

I have thought of this as well. In my opinion if she were to say yes to me that would mean I am #1. She has discussed marriage with me many times and is adamant that when she gets married that it's under God's covenant and that it's for life. I realize a LOT of people say that but I know her and believe this to be true. She doesn't want to be a failure in God's eyes. So if she chooses me I will know that her heart has truly changed.

I think she is paritally to blame for leading you on. If she only thinks of you as a friend, then she should distance herself enough to let you realize that. I think that is what she is trying to do now, but still, she SHOULD return the ring.

That's what confuses me. If she was really sure that I could be nothing more than a friend then why even take the ring in the first place? And now that she has the ring, why hold it for so long without given me even the slightest sniff of what she is thinking? That to be is the cruel part of all of this and what is leading me on. I can only assume since she still has the ring and refuses to meet with me at all that she doesn't have an answer. She's like that. If she is confused or doesn't know the answer she will avoid confrontation. If she knows the answer is no she will say so.

Personally, I would confront her. Just tell her how you feel about her etc.

If you have personal email I can send you the journal entry I wrote the day I gave her the ring. I said everything I ever wanted to say and there were no doubts as to my feelings. She knows darn well that I think the world of her. After all, giving someone an engagement ring is the greatest compliment I can imagine a man giving a woman. It says "Of all the women on this earth, I choose you to spend the rest of my life with...." High praise indeed.

Also, let her know that your offer still stands with wanting to be together commitment wise etc. But, until she is ready for all that, I would ask for the ring back. Because, what is the point of holding onto a ring if your not sure or you don't want to marry a person? Why would you even hold onto it if your supposidly into someone else?

Thus the crux of my problem. She is holding on to the ring (trust me, she won't sell it and she will give it back), but I think deep down somewhere in her heart that ring is holding her captive a bit. It means something to her even if right now she is confused about me.

But, I think her holding onto it is giving you false hope.

It's definitely giving me hope. If the answer is no - and she has plenty of opportunities to return the ring - then why hang onto it? She's not sentimental by nature but I think maybe the ring is a different story.

I think its making you think you stand a chance with getting her to marry you. But, the facts are she is with someone else. She thinks of you as a friend, and Im sorry but if she doesn't have those feelings for you beyond friendship by now, chances are she never will.

We've gone back and forth a few times. She is very confused about what she wants in life. As I mentioned before, she has said that she knows I have all the qualities she would seek in a husband and that she knows it would work out.

It's important to note something about her. She lived at home until about a year ago. She was a full-time student and wanted to be a Vet. She couldn't get into Vet school last year so that was the final straw. She decided that she was tired of living under her parents roof and wanted a life of her own. In addition she had a few serious relationships before me and wanted to "sow her oats" so to speak because, in her words "I need to experience life so that I won't wonder what other men are like when I get married..." In other words, she doesn't want any regrets. She is doing that now, sowing her oats, and kissing a few frogs. On the other hand she has said that she knows she is getting older (She's 29) and thinks she should settle down soon.

With that in mind, she knows what she has with me. The guy she is with now is new and she is not 100% sure of him. I have a theory that suggests that she is with the guy she is with now to "sow her oats" and when/if it doesn't work out she knows she can come back to me. The problem is I am getting "cat scratch fever." I am 37 and I know what I want in life. I'm ready to settle down and she's not quite there yet. I realize I can't force her but it's hard for me to just sit and wait.

Unfortunately if there is a chance for us, that is probably what I have do.

Why would you even want to get into a marriage with someone who is so unsure of themselves? Or someone who tells you repeatedly that they don't think of you as more then a friend? I do agree that friendship is important in a relationship as well as a marriage, but you definately need more then that. Its just not there on her part. You cannot force someone to feel that. Even if you do buy them a shiny enagagement ring or any other material things. Money just doesn't buy love or at least the true kind.

I agree, but the ring was merely symbolic. I bought it because she said when I asked her the first time she didn't think I was serious because I did it without a ring and didn't really propose. I just "suggested" we get married. I confessed to her when I proposes exactly how I felt, getting on one knee and asking her the "proper" way. I know it threw her for a loop. I'm trying to be humble here but I did it the RIGHT way. It blew her away, I could see it in her eyes and she was deeply effected by it. I saw the tears as she got in her car and drove away.

I know you don't like what you are hearing, but its the truth. Thats the thing about this board, we tell you our honest opinions. Some are more blunt then others. But, if the same message seems to be coming thru, then maybe you ought to consider what we are saying.

I am considering it. The question I have is really this:

"How do I ask her about the ring/proposal without putting pressure on her or going back on my word that she can have as much time as she needs?"

I just need some help figuring out how to get her to open up a bit without pressuring her or asking for the ring back. Trust me, if she says "I am not really considering it" then I will ask for the ring back, close the door and move on.

I'm sitting here in limbo and yes it's 100% my fault. I screwed up by not putting a date for her to say yes or no. Now I am trying to save face. I agree with everything you have to say, I hope you realize that.

Can you help me formulate a way to get a feel for where her head is at without pressure and without going back on my word?