Guys, help me out here please

[yodedp29]

I am sorry for the length of the below post but I wanted to make sure that everything was presented exactly as it happened. I need to know if I screwed up, and I need a guy's point of view. Thank you.

I have been friends with this guy, Jon, for nearly twenty years. I should say that it has always been long distance; we never met up much, and did a lot of talking on the phone--mostly me calling him. He was never overly interested in the friendship. I would get tired of doing all the work, and we'd end up not talking for a span of five or six years. This cycle repeated twice. Then he would contact me and be all excited about communicating with me.

I gave up on him, and I got married to someone else, got divorced four years later, and I re-started communication with Jon by letter. As usual, he was excited about hearing from me, and came to see me. Then he dropped this bomb:

He said he believed he had a mystical experience in which he was awakened from a sound sleep and told by a voice he would marry me someday. He believed this was a message from God. I of course, did not know what to think, but we both came from fundamentalist Christian backgrounds, so I believed him, and I was pleased, because I'd always liked him. He was over a relationship in which he lived with a girl for a year and a half. He said it was very easy to be with me, and he was very attentive, bought me nice things, and we slept together a few times. When I told him my greatest fear was that I would be left by someone I loved, he encouraged me to talk about my home life (which was not pleasant--my dad used to beat up my mom). I cried, and he held me for hours while I cried and got it all out. He was very sweet. And we slept together. Then he started the same old withdrawing, he went from calling me every day to gradually ceasing calling altogether. He stopped responding to emails, and when I would talk to him, he never wanted to get together with me to do anything, not even go out for dinner or anything. I started getting scared that after this talk of marriage that he would leave me. He kept reassuring me that we would be married someday, but "it wasn't the right time." I put up with this for six long years. During that six years, I too believed he would marry me, so I didn't date anyone, and occassionally we would talk on the phone (me calling him).

When asked why he didn't want to see me, he would always say "it wasn't time yet, have faith in God, he will do everything." Jon wouldn't even try. I expected nothing more than to finally grow our friendship, despite this talk of marriage from his end, but he never would get together with me and just be friends. He believed that he didn't have to do anything, and God would do everything. After six years of this, I felt like I was on a rollercoaster the whole time. He'd buy me things--expensive clothes, expensive shoes, and he would send them to me. Four months ago he bought and built me a 1200.00 bike and sent it to me. When I would explain that I loved that he bought things for me, but that I'd rather spend time with HIM, he would continue to say that "it wasn't time yet and to have faith that God would do everything, and that we didn't have to do anything." He would not say WHEN he was coming back, and at first, he told me he didn't want me dating anyone else until he did come back. He knew I was in love with him, but told me point blank he did not love me--yet.

I felt like I didn't have enough faith, that I was somehow to blame for why he wouldn't see me. Then last year, to my shock and surprise, he started dating a girl he works with. He wouldn't tell me he was seeing anyone until I forced it out of him, and she cheated on him continuously with her ex boyfriend, and wouldn't commit to a relationship with him. He begged her and pleaded with her to dump the guy she was with to commit to him, but she wouldn't do it, AND she wouldn't break up with him either. He left all kinds of loopholes open for her to stop cheating on him to get back together with her, but he wouldn't see ME AT ALL, and he could not understand why I got angry when he started dating her. All the while he was dating her and begging with her for a commitment, he was promising me that we would marry one day and that we only had to have faith and God would work it all out, and we didn't have to do anything. I of course, felt that this was all extremely unfair, and I felt used. I could not understand why he wouldn't spend any time with me, and would make a point of shutting me out, and I would never have cheated on him like she did, but he insisted on chasing her. He started calling me to talk about HER--to try to fix her so she would get back together with HIM! I got sick of being used as a sounding board, and told him to stop calling me. I was mad about the whole thing and I called this girl up to tell her about me. He never even mentioned me to this cheating *itch. When I told her that he was promising marriage to me, she got really mad, and told me that 'he had problems" and that she was in a relationship with someone else and had broken up with him for good. She started crying and telling me how badly Jon had treated her. Jon insisted that she was a "nutcase" who had claimed her boyfriend was abusing her when she started dating Jon. I didn't know who to believe, and anyway, Jon got really mad when he found out I had called her up. I told him he should have told her about me, and that he shouldn't have dated her in the first place if he believed so much that God wanted us to marry one day, and that he wouldn't even spend any time with me as friends, and that I thought the whole thing was unfair.

We didn't talk for four months, and then we started talking again (I called him, I'm a glutton for punishment), and right away, he started talking about HER again. For six months all he has ever talked about was her, how angry he was at her, how he couldn't forgive her, etc etc etc. He used me again for a sounding board for six months. I tried to be understanding, tried to be a friend, and just found myself getting sick of hearing about her all the time. He still wouldn't see me at all, and he'd send me things in the mail again, expensive gifts. It all came to a head last month, when I told him I didn't want to have anything more to do with him. He again started in on how I should have faith and that God would work it all out. All I have ever wanted was some of his time, and I never required that he spend all his time with me, just one or two days a year, so we could get to know one another as friends.

Then he started getting mad and saying I was "pushing him" when I'd repeat my request to see him for a day. He told me that I "didn't seem to be getting it" and that I needed to let go and let God do everything. He stopped talking to his family and his friends, he leaves the house only to go to work, he stopped going to the gym (he used to run marathons), and he sits in front of the TV and drinks wine, basically.

The upshot is, I told him I thought he needed counselling, *he's Canadian, so he can get counselling for free from the national health care system) that he was emotionally unavailable, he was being selfish, and if he wanted to cut his family and friends out of his life, that was his business, but that I was finished with him. He got mad at me, insisted he did not need counselling, and he got really mad and refused to communicate when I told him I was concerned he had a drinking problem. I feel badly for not sticking it out, but I have stuck it out for six long years, even though he dated someone else and wasn't honest with me. He made it clear he didn't want me to contact him in any way, because that meant I was "doing something" and "we don't have to do anything," and that I wasn't letting God do anything. He has left his phone off the hook for three months straight so no one can call him. I have been worried about him, and have suggested counselling over and over, but he just gets mad and tells me I need to have faith. I told him I never wanted to talk to him, or see him ever again. I have not heard from him since, and I feel much happier, but I want to know what you think.

I want to know if I did the right thing. I know I was foolish to wait six years for him, but I had no reason not to trust him; I'd known him for so many years, and he had always been very dependable and really, the best friend I ever had. He ended up making me feel rejected over and over for those six years with his refusals to see me, and I feel if he were really my friend, he would have let me in at some point and let me be there for him. He shouldn't be isolated, and I don't believe that's what God would want either. Should have I had more faith and just stopped all contact with him sooner, and waited for him to come back?

What would you have done, if you had been in my shoes? The only solution I could see if he could not be a friend was to cut off all contact altogether. Please let me know what you think.

[Jimmy1218]

what?! that guy has some mental problems from start to finish. you shouldn't ever contact him again.

[misombra]

i think you should slap yourself silly every time you think about calling him.

if that doesn't work try banging your head against the wall over and over again.

[crystalheart]

I agree with Jimmy1218, he must have mental problem.

I think you did the right thing. Just forget about him, start your new life. There are so many nice guys in this world. Why him??

[yodedp29]

I feel SO much better for having cut all communication with him. It was a painful decision to make because I really did love him; always will...but I decided I am worth more to be treated better than he treated me. I would not want his karma.

Thank you all so much for your kind support.

[Junket]

He believed this was a message from God. I of course, did not know what to think, but we both came from fundamentalist Christian backgrounds, so I believed him, and I was pleased, because I'd always liked him.

Wow.

What a disgrace to the very idea of God.

You both gotta stop putting things on God.

God will not help those who will not help themselves.

You're both just giving yourself an excuse to live unhappily.

Why? Because God wants it that way?

Did God get you a job?

Did God put dinner on your table?

No, you did.

The sooner you realize this, the better off you will be.

Let the other bastard figure that out for himself.

You're no Jesus.

[Jimmy1218]

really, name ONE positive thing about him.

[vashti]

I can't believe you could actually say you have no reason not to trust him. Quite honestly, I think YOU need counseling. No woman in her right mind would have tolerated this for six long years.

PS - People who use the idea of God this way give God a bad rap.

[yodedp29]

Actually, I credit counselling for helping me realize after that many years that something wasn't right. I had a bad feeling the entire time. I think that the experience was good for me because it taught me to trust my own instincts, and I feel that I was protected from this man by God, and by the tools I was given to better myself through the counselling I received for the last six years. Religion is no longer as much of a factor for me; fundamentalism is perhaps the most destructive religion towards women I have ever known; women (like me) who are indoctrinated to believe that they must always be secondary to men, that they must "submit" and hope that God will fix whatever happens. I no longer believe that, and like you, Vashti, have come to understand that we have the power to change our lives; how we love ourselves comes through in the way we allow people to treat us. I learned through this experience, to love myself, and that loving myself is not the same as being selfish.

I stuck with him for so many years because he was my friend, and I wanted to help him. That desire for help turned into co-dependency, and again, I credit counselling for helping me see the light, so to speak.

I would not want his karma. I don't believe he's a bad person, just mentally messed up, again, I cannot stress how large a role religion played in this. We had numerous arguments about free will--he does not believe we have free will, so he felt justified stating over and over again he didn't have to do anything because if we have no free will, then "God" forces us to do what he wants anyway. I never agreed with this point of view. I am a scholar of theology, and I would never agree with this point of view.

I am not ashamed I tried to be his friend. I tried to push him towards counselling, but he is not yet ready to face himself. I have blocked him from my email account, changed my phone number, and have no desire to ever see or talk to him again. I am glad I found out what he was like; I shudder to think I could have married this man.

[yodedp29]

really, name ONE positive thing about him.

Once I named 150 positive things about him. Unfortunately, he could only believe in the 10 bad things. Even so, 150 good things is no reason to stay in an unhealthy relationship if I have to sacrifice who I am for a man such as him.

[Junket]

women (like me) who are indoctrinated to believe that they must always be secondary to men, that they must "submit" and hope that God will fix whatever happens. I no longer believe that

I'm glad you've seen past that bullshit.

There are few things I hate more than when a person just sits back and says "well, if God wants it this way..."

Anyway...anyway, here's to taking charge, and responsibility for one's life, eh?

[yodedp29]

Thank you so much. I just needed the extra pat on the back, which is why I posted here. I feel sane now for the first time in six and half years. I can't even believe something this nutty happened to me.

[depressed]

you weren't dating and you would have gotten married?? i'm not a believer, this may be why i'm so doomed!!

[yodedp29]

Um, you must have misunderstood. We DID date, but then he disappeared and never came back.

[yodedp29]

I've noticed something here. It might be...easy to sort of look down the nose at people like me, who have had their faith used against them, but let me just say for sensitivity's sake that it happens more often than you think. There is a whole branch of psychology dedicated to the field of "spiritual abuse" and it's okay if you think I'm stupid or gullible, that's fine. Walk a mile in my shoes before you judge.