Choi's Problem

[Junket]

The weekend was going fine.

I got here on Friday night as usual, we had dinner, watched a movie, had fun in bed.

Saturday we were very productive, I got up early, got a hair cut, we did some food shopping and had an overall good day. Even though she was on her period, she insisted on messing around focusing solely on me.

Sunday...I think all we did most of Sunday was play videogames, and we visited her parents for dinner. I had a really good time in their company. When we got back we watched a horror movie.

Monday, I started to become distant. We've been talking about moving to NOLA more, writing down goals and things we'll have to do before we move and things to do when we get there. We also planned on buying fireworks and things, and we did, but I wasn't all that enthused. My libido dropped significantly, I don't feel like having any kind of sex or cuddling any. I know she'd at least like to cuddle, or just engage in simple gestures of affection like hand holding and such but I feel this kind of pressure about it and I resent her for it.

I need friends.

I know I've needed friends for a while, the cycle of being social with only my brother's family and Amy have been an issue for me for a while.

Today, I woke up next to her, and I kept it clear in my body language that I didn't want to cuddle, didn't want her to so much as touch me. I tried to act normal, telling her about my dream, but when she started to get playful, I just shut down. I got up, took a shower. Made sure not to dress in front of her.

I'm guessing after reading through all of this, that we just spent too much time together this weekend. I'm already aware that I need time to myself. That's just me. I once spent a whole week with one of my buddies in highschool and I was sick of him by the end of the week. Almost anytime I spend this kind of time with somebody I grow bored and almost resentful of them, even though I know it's silly.

Anytime we engaged in some kind of outside activity, or spent our time with others, I love it, I enjoy it. When we're just here at her apartment...I just get...ugh.

What's funny, is that these are things I already knew about myself. I just didn't expect to feel so cold and distant with my girlfriend.

I'm lacking the balance I need.

I'm lacking variety and outside stimuli.

Ironically, the 3 hour distance between Lawton and Denton make this difficult because I can't just go home for an evening and do my own thing. If I wanna make the gas and time driving here worth it...

I just really wish we were at least in the same town, or yes, even living together.

These weekends, we don't have much else to do. I'd rather see her periodically throughout the week than commit to 4 straight days of constant interaction.

[anachronistic]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you should tell Amy how you feel incase there is hard feelings... can't just expect someone to read your mind. Just seems like there is a little bit of a communication issue between the two of you. Who knows, maybe she has some suggestions.

Also, you should step back away from the picture for a minute; you did put a lot of effort to get to where you're at now. You surely couldn't have expected a stress free situation. I mean, you left your family and friends to be with someone you love, that must have been quite an inspiration. You must really love her a lot in order to allow yourself to be in this position. So you still have that.

What's wrong with calling a friend every now and then? I am sure your friends are wondering what you've been up to. Haven't you been keeping in touch with them?

[vashti]

Fras, how do you know your boredom is related to your not interacting with friends? Are you sure it isn't a problem with this relationship? Maybe you should work on developing your personal life *separate* from Amy before you move in together with her.

[Junket]

Mom and Dad aren't thrilled... but that was to be expected. On the upside - I got a bite on my apartment! The lady seems really interested, but she's wanting to move in February! So I might have to move up my move date a little. I'm so relieved though - I was thinking today - What if nobody will sublet from me?? I'll just be stuck here until November!! Yikes!

------
Ok. I have been typing and untyping and writing letters and staring at my ceiling since this weekend, trying to emotionally rebound - and figure out why I was still so mad - even after you apologized. Yesterday, I slept from 5:30-9:30pm and then from 12:00-7:30am... I think I finally slept out all that backed up tension - because today, I feel hopeful and happy again...

But after all that thinking there are some things I need to say:

We have several issues we are trying to deal with right now - the move, the distance, the future... But the only issue that really upsets me is your behavior. I consider it separate from all the other issues, and it is the only one that I consider a serious concern. I agree with what you said the other night - that every issue shouldn't have us asking "should we break up?" because having issues is just part of being in a committed relationship. BUT this particular issue is a potential deal breaker for me.

I want to work things out with you, Anthony. I love you a lot. And there are alot of things that I am willing to compromise on to make things work. But I can't... and won't be emotionally battered by you every time you are in a bad mood. You have to learn how to deal with your anger, frustration, and depression without punishing the people around you. It's ok to feel those things, to struggle with them even - but those are emotions everyone struggles with... and it doesn't give you a license to be a jerk.

I know you know this stuff. But I think when you get in that "internal" mindset of yours - you're just thinking about you - and you forget what you know.

Anyway. I dont' want this to sound like some kindof ultimatum - because I don't think that's a productive way to think about things. But I guess I feel like most of this conversation has felt like the decisions have all been in your court. Like there's this sort of under-lying presumption that I would never leave - and I will just handle whatever comes along. So I guess I just wanted to be clear that I am not only very hurt by that kind of behavior - but it's not something I plan to endure past a certain point. That is to say, at some point there is an healthy end to my patience -- and that's a good thing. It means I respect myself.

------
Having said that... I deeply appreciate your apology, and your e-mail, and the kindness I've seen from you in the last few days. I feel very hopeful about this move, and about things with you. I think one thing that makes our relationship particularly strong, is that we are both willing to work at it, invest in each other, and change when we need to. I'm excited about our future... excited about our goals... excited about you.

I hope this email didn't sound to harsh... I think sometimes you just have to say things, before you can let go of them, you know?

Anyway... I'm missing you too, which is ironic - considering it was only 2 days ago we were both sick of each other. =P

Talk to you soon? -ames

I don't know what to do about this. I don't get angry or frustrated all that often with her, and as I cited above, the reason why I did this weekend was just spending almost 96 straight hours with her was wearing down on me.

This e-mail makes me feel like I'm chronically emotionally abusing her or something. I didn't know what to do considering there weren't many places to go spend time by myself so I closed up.

I'm feeling extremely defensive about this e-mail.

I'm really fighting the urge to retaliate in a mean and sarcastic way...this issue has been going on for the past couple months. Not in that "my behavior" is recurring, but we're just constantly arguing over it. I feel like she's carrying it on and blowing it way out of proportion.

[Illusional]

yes, to sum it up, variety is always good. personally i like to spend time with various people because it doesn't lead to boredom. i dunno what you do for a living or if you work other than the army, but try spending some more time with your coworkers.

raverboy

[Tiay]

wow. She's got spunk. I like her.

in reference to the weekend, I feel the urge to repeat some advice, even if you already know it; physical intimacy is not something you just do for fun when you feel like it. In a committed relationship you are your partners ONLY port of call for intimacy- you are responsible for it, and you can't simply go cold on them with no explanation.

whatever you do, do not retaliate. That road does not have a pretty ending. I recommend simply trying to understand what she is saying and why she is feeling that way. That is, don't flat out deny any negative "recurring behavior", but honestly ask; I don't know what this behavior is, give me examples, tell me why that affects you, etc. You have to know where she's coming from and really listen to her.. and obviously, the favor should be returned so that YOU can be heard too.

I've been linking this article for a while, and it's still as great as ever;
[url]http://www.aish.com/dating/wisdom/Hooray_for_Fighting!.asp[/url]

[anachronistic]

I've been wondering where the hell this thread magically disappeared to. Those kinds of curiousities are not healthy for my confidence.

Anyway, I don't blame you for feeling a bit defensive about the email. I hope you take this with a hint of optimism. Tiay has got your winning advice just above ^^

[Tiay]

(thanks 'wing : )

this bit bothers me:
she used a crafty disclaimer; "I hope this email didn't sound to harsh... I think sometimes you just have to say things, before you can let go of them, you know?"

I'm not sure what to make of that. On the one hand, would you rather she bottles resentment up rather than telling it? Of course not.

But on the other hand, saying "you just have to say things before you can let them go" gives her the right to say almost anything she wants, under the guise of excising it.. after all, would you prefer she bottles it up instead? noooo, can't have that.

I agree that communication is vital and that in a relationship each person deserves to have their viewpoint understood and listened to– but you don't need a disclaimer for that. And I firmly disagree with the view that you can just say/vent whatever you want without regarding the other person's feelings. I'm not saying that's what she did, just that I don't agree with the concept.

[anachronistic]

And I firmly disagree with the view that you can just say/vent whatever you want without regarding the other person's feelings.

Thanks for pointing that out:

That's what one calls a lack of communication skills. All this is about poor communication; Frasbee needs time alone, and instead of compromising, he tries to get Amy to realize through body language, but that doesn't work, and it makes Amy feel "emotionally battered", so she sends him an offensive email about it, which not only makes Frasbee feel defensive, but makes Amy feel like she is pointing the finger at him, which means that she's been bottling something for quite some time. It makes a mountain out of a molehill.

I hope this makes clear the problem and the solutions for it.

[misombra]

frizzz, you shouldn't be defensive. amy has a right to express her feelings, just as you do. this is an issue that will come up in your relationship whether you live with her or not, or whether you have a lot of friends or not. people argue about things and have to work things out. it's a never ending thing. it's the nature and dynamics of relationships.

instead of becoming defensive, you should try for understanding. if she was very cold toward you for no given reason, you'd feel bad too.

it's just the way things go to get sick of each other now and again. isn't it like that with parents, siblings, friends, etc...? and then it changes and things are fine again. those moments of being sick of each other are not likely to last, and more often than not will lead to a better understanding, if that's your goal. it should be your goal. getting defensive gets you nowhere.

it's hard to hear feedback and criticism from anybody, but you probably don't want her to stop giving it to you. because then she wouldn't have the strength that you love her for.

you'll work it out. things change and cycle. you'll be alright.

[Junket]

I talked to her on the phone last night.

I felt like we were walking in circles, discussing the same damn motherfúcking thing. Why I get angry, why I act the way I do, how hard I try to be reasonable with my anger (which I do, trust me, with the way I was raised? I do.) And she kept asking, "Is this behavior going to continue?"

Even in the e-mail, she says it's not an ultimatum, but it is
an ultimatum. Basically stating if my behavior were to continue she would leave me. That's fúcking harsh considering I'm always putting in a constant effort to monitor what I say to her and how I treat her. It's like a slap in the face. Not to mention, how the fúck do I respond to that? I can't say it will definitely continue, and I can't say it definitely won't continue. I even pointed this out to her, both are unrealistic, especially the second.

I told her that I was having doubts and second thoughts about this move, and she suddenly changed gears. She suddenly became hopeful, and optimistic about the move, I told her I was going to go to bed and get back to her in the next couple of days.

She called me back half an hour later, told me she was thinking on what she was asking me, whether or not my behavior will continue, and said she realized how stupid of a question that was, how she couldn't even think of what she wanted to hear from me. And literally said to the whole past conversation and issue: "Nevermind."

I'm happy she doesn't find it an issue anymore or whatever the fúck she's thinking, but I'm feeling pretty down about all of this still. I'm getting sick of this roller coaster. Back and forth and back and fúcking forth. I'm emotionally spent.

She sent me 2 texts and this e-mail.

I haven't responded.

I'm just tired.

Glad she's fúcking happy, because I'm not.

I would like to withdraw this email - and re-interpret this entire conversation, for what I now realize it really is:

I'm scared. Of change, of moving, of moving in together.

And I'm freaking out as usual about the new commitments in front of me. I am so damn predictable... and dumb. And if I could erase this email and that last phone conversation, I would. Without hesitation.

I know things have been hard lately... But I honestly believe - its because the strain of living this weird long-distance life is starting to wear us both down. I think we haven't even had a chance to see how great things could be between us. I think that here - we are all each other has, and nobody can be everything to someone - without eventually disappointing them. I think we both need jobs we care about, and friends, and our own, semi-permanent space. And in that environment - we would flourish. I honestly believe that.
Let's go somewhere. Let's fight for this thing, or at least go out in a blaze of glory...

...Come to NOLA with me. Yours, amy

[Tiay]

aww, she's like my boyfriend; some big relationship-threat comes up right before a major commitment such as a visit or in your case to move in together. Their arguments don't even make sense! You feel like you're arguing for them to keep you even-though they don't actually want to..(at least, I've felt this way)
You go to hell and back, and then it's "oops. I realize now; I got scared." This isn't intentional, it just happens that way. And you forgive them. Eventually. At least I do. After all, I equally have flaws that have and will cause me to say hurtful things, and I also want to be forgiven when that happens.

If she's a commitment phobic I'm afraid that's something that's probably not going to change anytime soon. However, you guys have come very far in terms to committing to each other, and that says a lot.

I bet, you resent the underlying assumption that now that she's decided it isn't an issue, you're going to come running back to her like a puppy dog, like nothing happened, like you weren't hurt. You should get acknowledgement of that, at least.

[misombra]

I talked to her on the phone last night.

I felt like we were walking in circles, discussing the same damn motherfúcking thing. Why I get angry, why I act the way I do, how hard I try to be reasonable with my anger (which I do, trust me, with the way I was raised? I do.) And she kept asking, "Is this behavior going to continue?"

Even in the e-mail, she says it's not an ultimatum, but it is
an ultimatum. Basically stating if my behavior were to continue she would leave me. That's fúcking harsh considering I'm always putting in a constant effort to monitor what I say to her and how I treat her. It's like a slap in the face. Not to mention, how the fúck do I respond to that? I can't say it will definitely continue, and I can't say it definitely won't continue. I even pointed this out to her, both are unrealistic, especially the second.

I told her that I was having doubts and second thoughts about this move, and she suddenly changed gears. She suddenly became hopeful, and optimistic about the move, I told her I was going to go to bed and get back to her in the next couple of days.

She called me back half an hour later, told me she was thinking on what she was asking me, whether or not my behavior will continue, and said she realized how stupid of a question that was, how she couldn't even think of what she wanted to hear from me. And literally said to the whole past conversation and issue: "Nevermind."

I'm happy she doesn't find it an issue anymore or whatever the fúck she's thinking, but I'm feeling pretty down about all of this still. I'm getting sick of this roller coaster. Back and forth and back and fúcking forth. I'm emotionally spent.

She sent me 2 texts and this e-mail.

I haven't responded.

I'm just tired.

Glad she's fúcking happy, because I'm not.

well then tell her that.

my bf does this to me as well. he'll start something and then act like nothing happened while i'm still upset. i think it's a defensive act. they put themselves out there and now they have to bring themselves back because you might hurt them.

i say that fear is starting to take it's toll for both of you. and it's okay to be afraid, what you two are embarking on is scary. your minds are working over time.

maybe it would serve you both well to slow down a little. take the pressure off of yourselves to make things perfect. there's no such thing as perfection, and all couples argue and get sick of each other sometimes.

as for her threatening to leave: that is always a possibility. i think she may have said that to hurt you a little. i don't believe that's what she wants. people say all kinds of hurtful things when they are defensive and hurt.

but she had reason to be hurt, don't you think? when you acted so cold to her. especially if she had spent the weekend focusing on frizbee. she was trying to be super nice and it was met with coldness. ouch. if you're going to do that to someone, expect them to come back at you. she wanted you to feel as crappy as she felt. and it worked! it works every time.

the only challenge now for you is lose the defensive armor and do your best to be rational. (disclaimer: much easier said than done.)

[Gigabitch]

I think you should try to figure out where that coldness is coming from, and if any of it actually belongs to Ames. I'm thinking not.

I think you have cold feet, I think you're lonely without your buddies, I think you feel like you're wasting your time and energy and want to be doing something useful. I don't know if you're actually getting sick of her, but I can tell you for sure that if you keep shutting her out like that, you're going to do some serious damage to your relationship.

Why don't you take the next weekend you were supposed to visit her and go see Will instead or something? It's not really her fault your life is sucking right now. Fix this, and then take another look at her.

[anachronistic]

Damn, I think you guys need a week of space. Complete space, no contact for a week, to allow the two of you to calm down and think about the problems. Then come back together and discuss the issues. Otherwise you will continue arguing in a negative way.

If you do that ^ don't just leave her hanging. Tell her that's what you think you all should do before you continue.

As far as your 'behavior issue', I think she needs to realize that it is not something that changes instantaneously, and it takes time and work. I think she needs to know that it's a communication issue, something not only you are having trouble with. I hope that you keep pushing to fix it.