hypnotic dating.

[misombra]

so i just watched this documentary about hypnotic dating.

it's where you basically put somebody else in a trance.

so in this documentary the guy introduced himself to a woman, basically gave her really nice imagery and make her want to get with him like, right away.

i would really like to know more about this. has anyone ever heard of this? do you believe you could be hypnotized like that? what are some techniques? i would like to try it with somebody, just to see if it works...

[ame="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6809416970995051909&q=louis+therou x&total=273&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plinde x=1"]Louis Theroux Weird Weekends: Hypnotic Dating[/ame]

gskorp, where you at? i hope everybody can chime in about this.

[Mish]

From what I read this works through association. You basically make a person re-live past good feelings and experiences and then subtley associate these feelings with yourself. You basically classicaly condition your date to associate you with positive feelings they experienced. I think Scorp will have more on this.

Personally I don't think this will work as well with logically driven men as with emotionally driven women. Men would be easier hypnotized with looks and pin point seduction.

[misombra]

so how do you go into it? he just introduced himself and he was in. you must have to practice to get that good...

[vashti]

Only people who are extremely suggestible are prone to hypnosis.

[GrkScorp]

gskorp, where you at?

I'm here mis, speak of the devil, I was just thinking about you today..

Anyway, the guy in the video is Ross Jeffries, i'm not personally a big fan of his, afterall, David D'Angelo was his student, and they departed on bad terms, so you can imagine how big of a feud there is..

He's a little bitter towards women, some of it is justified, some of it isn't.. But what he basically did, was incorporate the methods of Milton H. Erickson M.D. (used in clinical psychology & psychiatry) and applied it to dating, specifically, women..

Before I give a little intro into the Milton NLP model; a quick word on hypnosis:

- Everything around you is hypnosis, seriously.. All that hypnosis is, is allowing for a person to fall or go into some altered mental state.. When George Clooney is saying "hi" to a woman, he's sending her in an altered state, if Eva Green tells me "hi", believe me, she's sending me in an altered state.. and in effect, that's all that hypnosis is..

There are stages to hypnosis:

1. Establish Rapport, comfort, trust
2. Overload the conscious mind
3. Build response potential (start to stimulate the unconscious mind and allow it to take over)
4. Make suggestions (induce an action or thought)

I'll get into examples of this, but you've already seen me do this on this forum; pay some attention to some of my previous posts, i'm sure after this post, you'll start to realize which ones go into all 4 steps in that order..

The NLP Milton Model:

Uses artfully vague language patters. The language employed allows the listener, or reader, to insert her own meaning as it relates to the situation she is in, in order to give the communication concrete meaning. Often, in order to supply meaning to such language, a person will do a trans-derivational search (TDS). TDS is a specialized trance state that the mind enters in order to search through its memories for a certain experience or set of experiences, or to resolve an unusual situation through the imagination. The ease with which TDS is initiated and deepened in order to affect a person's internal representations makes the Milton model a very sophisticated model for changework, influence, or persuasion.

Example: (poetry) "The days of our lives, like candles standing in a perfectly strait line.. Candles, full of joy, warmth, flare.., brightness..., and hope.. Looking ahead.., an endless line of bright flickering.. but behind.., smoke..., from the candles that burn no more.. don't.. turn back.. don't.. look at the candles that burn no more.. don't.. turn.. don't cry at the cold and lifeless.., look ahead.. at the candles that still burn, full of hope.., bright dreams ahead.. but don't forget.., never forget.., the number of cold, lifeless, dead candles that grows behind.. growing.. more and more.. as the flare and hope ahead, grows dimmer.. as the each candle's flame.. is no more.."

Poetry, prose, and other such works often induce TDS; and make us feel as if we're comming to some great realization, some great understanding about ourselves, our life, or the world in general.. But this illusion, is the effect of TDS taking place, in order for us to make sense of this vague language and symbolism..

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=RfX33FgEICs&feature=related"]YouTube - NLP - Sliding Anchors[/ame]

She's an amature who does a poor job of NLP and anchors, and you can hopefully get a feel for a general framework of this.. and how it's normally done naturally during regular interaction, with people who have no idea what hypnosis is.. because hypnosis is a natural phenomenon.. The part people think about during hypnosis, is (making suggestions) which is to directly introduce commands to the unconscious, but hypnosis can stop at step 3, which only makes for an enjoyable mental journey..

Step 4 hypnosis: (implanting commands directly to the unconscious)

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZyQjr1YL0zg"]YouTube - Derren Brown - Subliminal Advertising[/ame]

Step 3 hypnosis: (allowing for the full enjoyment of emotions) + anchoring

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=Z1QbgQobg4w"]YouTube - NLP - Visual Anchoring (Ross Jeffries)[/ame]

That is Ross Jeffries, stopping at Step 3, but locking an anchor in place, when triggered, will fire off those surge of emotions enjoyed fully in Step 3.. Anchoring applies what's known as Pavlov conditioning (you know, the dogs, the meat, the door, the bell, the ringing, the saliva.. as you recall what Pavlov conditioning is, notice how easily you can allow yourself to go into TDS and make sense of that sentence)

Anchoring is very useful, but also very dangerous when combined with sub-modalities (which is when people look towards a certain direction and lock an image or emotion in place; and in effect, are stimulating a certain combination of areas in the brain when their eyes are locked in a certain position; so that when their eyes go to that position again, an anchor gets fired, because those same areas of the brain are now stimulated again).. You encounter anchoring naturally every day.. For instance, I smell things sometimes, and when I do, some smells just take me back to some past experience, either with a person, or a certain emotion I was feeling.. All that's happened, is that an anchor has just fired, triggering those emotions to come up.. But Anchoring, Step-3 hypnosis, and submodalities can litterally allow for a person to become "programmed"

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=i9NLEbCR57M"]YouTube - Derren Brown - "Colour Blind"[/ame]

Now, imagine going out on a date.. with a guy.. what would naturally happen eventually at some point?

1. Feel comfortable for this person, establishing rapport, trust, a sense of safety and security..

2. Paying attention to so many details that it's hard to follow them off, and you can sort of feel your mind wonder off in a "day-dream-like" mode.. getting lost in that person as he's speaking to you, going deeper and connecting to the conversation.. and in effect, stop thinking and shut down your conscious mind, turning off logic..

3. Turning on imagination, and allowing for the unconscious mind to take over.. getting lost in thoughts, meanings, feelings, emotions, and just enjoying how that feels like, to be with that person..

But in effect, between step 1 & 3, what else were you doing? You were allowing for yourself to get anchored.. That's right.. You were looking at this person (and most likely he was sitting in place, allowing for your submodality to build up momentum).. you were looking at the details on his face, his lips, his smile, his eyes.. you were listening to his voice, and you were enjoying the way it felt when he touched you.. And guess what.. Next time any one of those anchors comes up, and fires.. You start to feel those emotions you enjoyed with him in Step 3 come back.. just by listening to his voice, or seeing him, or being touched by him, or smelling him, etc..

So, this is actually a perfectly natural process.. the controversy begins when people take it a step further into Step 4.. (making suggestions)

- "Haha! That was funny.. you know what I love about laughing? How you feel inside as you're laughing, and right afterwards.. Do you ever notice that numb feeling or a tingle in your body right afterwards? And at first it starts off.. between your eyes, in your head.. but then.. it starts to work its way.. down.., below you.. and you can feel them spreading.. these sensations.. all around.. almost like your body is feeling warmer.. like a mild burning, as all of that is going on inside of you.. with me, the first thing I start to feel is my heart.., pumping faster.., you can hear it.., it just keeps pounding louder.., harder.., you can feel it, deep inside of you.. like a rush all over your body, just comming, over and over again.. and I think that's what really makes it feel so great, that's probably why people think they have such a good time when they're laughing, or when someone has humor.. do you know what I mean?"

That wouldn't really work cold, the person needs to be well into Step 3.. but it gives you an idea of the commands and suggestions put in place..

- "I think eyes are amazing.. there's so much detail in a person's eyes.. almost like they're a world of their own.. I remember looking into someone's eyes as they were talking to me once and thinking to myself how something about them almost reminded me of clouds, and the glare on one eye sort of looked like a sun.. and it's almost like I was at a beach, thinking to myself.. the sky is gorgeous (said to sound like "this guy is gorgeous").. and the water looks so amazing, too bad they were hazel, and i've never really seen hazel water.. lol"

- "Has your waist ever felt funny? I don't know, lately, it feels funny.. like.. when you go down.. on me, when I reach for something lately, below me (said to sound like "blow me"), there's this feeling, but I can't really explain it, it's probably nothing too serious though, just the weather I guess, or I should probably take a break from the gym for a while, find something else to do.. just go back home, lie down and relax for a bit, that's probably all it needs to go away"

To be perfectly honest; women are much easier to hypnotize then men.. not because they're dumb or vulnerable or anything like that.. not at all, hypnosis is a natural phenomenon, and the person has to have a high attention span in order to be able to enjoy it.. something most men lack unfortunately.. but more than that, women are far more emotional and in touch with their feelings, and can more easily go into a day-dream state, letting their mind wonder off into the depths of their imagination..

If there's anything I didn't cover, or something more you want to know, let me know, this is one of my favorite topics..

[IndiReloaded]

I tried to be hypnotized by someone & had this NLP expert try to do their 'magic' on me. I did both in front of a large group to make sure there were witnesses. Neither worked.

Personally, my experience is that its crap. Its like placebo, you have to believe it for it to work.

Mind, placebos work for 20 - 30% of the population.

[Gribble]

There's this hypnotist/comedian, Flip Orley, that I love. He does shows at the DC Improv all the time. I don't know that it's a placebo. I've watched people's heads lull back just from sitting in the audience and paying too close attention while he hypnotized the volunteers up on stage. I tried to get hypnotized myself from the audience but my idiot friend jabbed me in the ribs to point at some drunk guy who was stumbling around and it broke the trance. In either case, watching people make complete asses of themselves on stage is always funny. Especially after a few White Russians.

If I could hypnotize women that would be great.

"This is the best sex you've ever had. So good, in fact, that you want to invite your hot roommate to join us next time."

[GrkScorp]

If I could hypnotize women that would be great.

Here's the thing about hypnosis that so many people don't get..

Hypnosis is NOT:

- Waving around a watch from side to side to put you to sleep
- Making you do things beyond your control
- Putting you under mind control

(those are only VERY RARE forms of hypnosis; and the first one is just crap)

But what's interesting, is that if you DON'T WANT TO BE HYPNOTIZED, and actively resist it in your mind because of an ego-conflict (ego break; "i'm too smart to be hypnotized") then congrats, all you're doing is actively not allowing your conscious mind to pay enough attention and allows yourself to relax and enjoy the feeling of your conscious mind just taking a small break, relaxing, while your unconscious mind picks up and takes you on a mental joy-ride, without even thinking, like you're on autopilot..

There's one issue with this; TRUST.. if you don't trust the autopilot, then you obviously don't want to go on this ride, because you don't know where you'll end up..

Both issues were delt with in Milton H. Erickson's account of a patient with a balder problem that caused him to pee on himself every 30 minutes.. After visiting over 30 doctors; they all told him that there was nothing wrong with him, and the problem was just psychological.. He had tried many hypnotists, who just took him money and kept him around, comming back for more.. So when he got to Erickson's office, he didn't like him very much, there was no trust, and he was actively resisting hypnosis.. something Erickson picked up on when the man uttered "go ahead, hypnotize me and make this go away before I pee on myself again"

Erickson simply "talked" to him and make it clear that today, he wouldn't hypnotize him.. just "talking".. and very quickly, Erickson established comfort and trust; used time distortion to allow him to lose track of time.. and made suggestions to him about the change he wanted in himself (both directly and indirectly).. The other day, the man came into his office, going on about how he didn't have to go to the bathroom for over 8 hours, and possibly longer if he counted the time spent in the office and the walk back home (which Erickson told him to do, before he came back next time).. Erickson then told him, "well, it seems you just solved this problem on your own; I guess you don't really need any doctors to tell you what to do, or any of this hypnosis these people are talking about, I guess there's no need to hypnotize you then, how's work going?"

The placebo won't work if you know you're taking the placebo..

Now, hypnosis, is not the result of what the hypnotist is saying or doing.. not at all.. the person you is being hypnotized, is really the hypnotist.. because it's that person who allows himself/herself to go into that state, and experience the natural trance phenomenon..

- Consider this, and try not to think about everything you know or think you know or think you don't know about the topic so far, as you're reading this now, notice how you're breathing manually, for those of you who don't know what that means exactly, it means as you're reading this, I don't know if you'll notice how aware you are of your breathing, of each breath you're taking, of how the air feels like as it's passing through your mouth and nose, and how it's no longer automatic; stop smiling, I didn't command you to keep reading, or to keep breathing manually.. that was your free choice

For most of you, it's hard to imagine how reading something someone wrote from miles across the world could cause such a change in your body.. But the reality is, that YOU caused that change in your body, because you allowed it to happen.. you didn't resist it.. maybe you're just a very honest and trusting person, who knows.. but for some reason or an other, you felt safe and comfortable enough in the comfort of your own seat, behind your computer, to let yourself go, and surrender to your imagination.. and enjoy something as simple as breathing manually.. again.., that was a choice you made on your own, and a journey you took and experienced by yourself.. all I did was provide the medium for it.. that's all, the rest was all you.. so before you give yourself a pat on the back, just realize what hypnosis really is, and what it's really not..

[misombra]

how would one maintain that? can you maintain it?

[Mish]

When you really think about it, you come to some interesting realizations. And one of those is "consciousness (Or conscious thought) is an illusion". Reality is subjective. Think about it. Then try to nothing but think for next one hour. Can you do it? Can you nothing but think without your mind wondering off for a bit? Without day dreaming? Without suddenly being focused on some emotion brought by a memory? Sight, sounds, smell, can you focus your mind on nothing but calculated thought for that entire time period? How about for just twenty minutes?

This is the role of a successful hypnotist, to make you relive those emotions and feelings that you can't help but relive anyway, block your cosnscious mind by an experience so you can't rationalize what's really going on underneath the surface. They focus on the subjective world (The reality) and when that world is conqeured everything follows. Remember these thoughts? "It feels good to be next to him/her, I feel he/she understands me, I feel like we connect, I feel like it's meant to be, it makes me feel good when I hear his / her voice, see her / his face and THUS I can't stop thinking about her / him". Our thoughts follow our feelings.

Another interesting realization I've had. We like to think "We think and therefore we are", without realizing that our thoughts are just a set of complicated variables conditioned partly by our genes and partly by our environment. Thus, given a circumstance and a number of actions the end result of an interaction can mostly be predicted. The real trick is how to make those circumstances occur

[Junket]

I've been hypnotized by my work.

I went through an entire room of receptacle installation (after much repetition), and didn't realize it until somebody came in and disturbed me.

I looked back at the 5 outlets and couldn't remember doin' them.

If hypnotism is anything like that, then I can see how it's easy to be hypnotized. If it's not, then hypnotism is bullshit.

[IndiReloaded]

There's this hypnotist/comedian, Flip Orley, that I love. He does shows at the DC Improv all the time. I don't know that it's a placebo.

Placebos work b/c of suggestion. Same for pseudoscience stuff like homeopathy & NLP. As I understand, hypnosis 'works' thru a similar, not understood process. Not everyone is susceptible, again for reasons that haven't been fully explained. I have noticed that ppl who are more 'rigid' thinkers (scientists, esp math & physics sorts) are far less susceptible. Whether this is a good thing or not probably depends on the circumstance.

Its like Mish said. We basically invent our own reality. I've seen psych patients believing things that are completely irrational but they BELIEVE so its their reality. Fascinating in a scary sort of way.

[Junket]

Just think of all those silly possessed people who need to get excised.

And those black people who drop to their knees in church because they can feel the "holy spirit".

[Mish]

I have noticed that ppl who are more 'rigid' thinkers (scientists, esp math & physics sorts) are far less susceptible. Whether this is a good thing or not probably depends on the circumstance.

I think it also depends on intuition and emotional awareness. If a person is not very emotionally aware and their intuition can't quickly pick up what's going on then the alarm bells won't be going off and they will still go on a ride. I think this would be true for the rigid thinkers as well, if their emotional awareness is not sophisticated enough they will still let the feelings take over. In fact, I think the more rigid they are the harder they will fall into this "anchor" trap and the harder it will be to get out. They won't be able to rationalize their way out of these feelings.

[IndiReloaded]

I think it also depends on intuition and emotional awareness. If a person is not very emotionally aware and their intuition can't quickly pick up what's going on then the alarm bells won't be going off and they will still go on a ride. I think this would be true for the rigid thinkers as well, if their emotional awareness is not sophisticated enough they will still let the feelings take over. In fact, I think the more rigid they are the harder they will fall into this "anchor" trap and the harder it will be to get out. They won't be able to rationalize their way out of these feelings.

What's an 'anchor trap'?

I sort of get what you say, but disagree about rigid thinkers letting their feelings take over. I'd say its the exact opposite problem. That situations that could easily be resolved with a certain level of emotional intuition get muddled b/c of an attempt to rationalize an irrational situation.

Emotions are a lower brain function. Rational thinking is a higher brain function. The two aren't always congruent. In fact, they are often inversely proportional. Or is that what you meant?