Club Team Effort Suggestions

[Mish]

I'm getting tired of my friends stumbling about like zombies in the club lwhen we go out, while I do most of the initiation and approach. There's got to be a better way to do this. A synergistic team effort from a group of guys who know what they're doing is a powerful force. One that can easily build comfort and remove all kinds of obstacles. I'm interested in ideas and suggestions how can this (clueless) team be put to a good use and be of benefit for everybody.

Specifically I'm interested in:

1. Opening up sets outside of dance floor

2. Initiating sets on the dance floor

3. If group shrinks to just two guys, suggestions similar to the above 2

[vashti]

What do you mean by "sets"??

[Mish]

What do you mean by "sets"??

By "sets", I mean a group of girls. Or could just be a group of people.

[Mish]

<Bump>

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[vashti]

Why are you trying to orchestrate the behavior of groups of people? Are you training to become an entertainer?

[Mish]

Why are you trying to orchestrate the behavior of groups of people? Are you training to become an entertainer?

Among other things yes

I'm just seeing good opportunities and I don't want to see myself and others pass on them. I have a good group of people, they're talented individuals, they're interesting and are good value for any woman out there. It saddens me to see them disperse in a club and come back without any prospects. I want to see them succeed. With a good team work in place this success is very likely and very possible.

So, suggestions?

[vashti]

I think you'd do better to simply worry about yourself. I'm not sure everyone would appreciate your actions. Besides, are you really trying to say that you are so good at picking up girls you are ready to do so for your friends?

[IndiReloaded]

Sorry Mish, I don't even really understand your question. Its not a situation I have any experience with, otherwise I'd suggest something.

This sounds like something GS/BS would be more likely to answer.

[Mish]

So,

Suggestions?

(For some easy Thank Yous)

[GrkScorp]

2. Initiating sets on the dance floor

I've never done this, and although it's completely up to you, I wouldn't suggest you get into the habit of doing this either.. here is why:

- Girls go to clubs for 1 reason, and 1 reason only.. "ego validation".. and in order to satisfy that goal, they need "male attention".. But that's an easy thing to find.. that's the lure of clubs.. (Ladies free; but $20-$40 fee for any desperate guy comming in).. And the clubs are always loaded with guys comming in.. they can't resist.. Afterall, in order for girls to get "male attention" in order to get "ego validation", they have to dress up, (at and beyond the level of skimpy & revealing that other girls are at).. they must sparkle, glow, stand out, and command male attention.. they want to feel that out of all the other women there, she is the one that every guy wants the most..

- Now, obviously, girls can't say this explicitly.. because then the "not as attractive" girls would start to use ego-defense devices such as "ugh, she has no class, she's so dumb, what a slut, what a wh0re, how cheap, etc.. blah blah blah".. So instead.. they have to "mask" & "conceal" their intentions with this not so well-understood urge called "I just want to go out and dance tonight and have fun"

That's fine, that's stuff we already know.. and this kitty-cat nature is exactly the nature we're going to play on and exploit to no end.. but, beware of the dance-floor!

- Her "reason" for being at the club is "she just wants to go out and dance and have fun! yay!".. so her reason for being on the dancefloor isn't to "really" attract male attention.. it's because "duh! she just wants to dance! yay!".. at least that's what she tells herself and her friends.. so much so that she belives it and has actually convinced herself and her friends of this.. BUT! What's YOUR excuse?

- Leave the issue of actually being in the club as a guy in the first place.. we'll get to that later.. but for now.. if you're on the dancefloor as a guy, and you're (1) not gay, (2) don't have the skills of a backup dancer; then you must be there for the same reason other guys come to the club; because they're desperate and looking to get laid.. (This is NOT the vibe you want to give off for yourself, I don't know about the rest of your friends, but mostly because this vibe doesn't fit you Mish, it's not you, so there's no reason you should be giving it off)

- Tip (1): Avoid the dancefloor at all costs.. If you happen to walk past it, make strong and powerful eye-contact that dominates, that sends out the message "There's no question of if I can have you or not, I can have girls like you anytime I want, but right now, I want you, but it's too loud to talk, and this isn't the place, so, whenever you're done "dancing and having fun", i'll be right there" (That look takes less than a second, make it count, and then keep walking away, don't get trapped on the dancefloor, you're a guy, you can't dance, you don't belong there)

- Tip (2): Avoid the dancefloor at all costs.. When she comes over, and you've introduced her to your group of friends (more on that later).. she will get the urge to ask you to come and dance.. consciously, she just wants to show off to other girls that she got male attention tonight and here he is, dancing next to her.. unconsciously, the urge to dance, is the urge to express one's self sexually.. So, when she asks you to dance, hit her back with "Hey, I just came here to relax and have fun with everyone here tonight, and right now i'm still relaxing, and dancing isn't exactly my idea of relaxing, but maybe later, ok?".. (later; will be a time when you feel that she's not using you as some dancefloor trophy to prove to other girls that she's getting male attention; but more importantly, "later" will be at some other place, and not this club!)

[GrkScorp]

1. Opening up sets outside of dance floor

Last time i'll mention it; clubs, are the worst place to try and find girls.. Just because of the nature of them, and the motive for why girls gather there; likewise, for the perceived motive of why guys gather there (and that's something that brushes off to you, even though it's not true).. plus.. they're loud, so you can't talk..

With that being said, i'll continue:

Suggested Readings:

- (Mandatory)

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Game-Theory-Work-Outmaneuver-Competition/dp/0071400206/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205737393&sr=1-9"]Amazon.com: Game Theory at Work: How to Use Game Theory to Outthink and Outmaneuver Your Competition: James D. Miller: Books[/ame]

- (Optional)

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Game-Theory-Non-Technical-Introduction-Analysis/dp/0324175728/ref=sr_1_73?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205737771&sr=1-73"]Amazon.com: Game Theory: A Non-Technical Introduction to the Analysis of Strategy: Roger McCain: Books[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Dynamic-Noncooperative-Classics-Applied-Mathematics/dp/089871429X/ref=sr_1_68?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205737721&sr=1-68"]Amazon.com: Dynamic Noncooperative Game Theory (Classics in Applied Mathematics): Tamer Basar,Geert Jan Olsder: Books[/ame]

- (Advanced)

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Game-Theory-Law-Economic-Approaches/dp/1845426401/ref=sr_1_39?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205737626&sr=1-39"]Amazon.com: Game Theory and the Law (Economic Approaches to Law): Eric B. Rasmusen: Books[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Differential-Games-Economics-Management-Science/dp/0521637325/ref=pd_sim_b_img_2"]Amazon.com: Differential Games in Economics and Management Science: Engelbert J. Dockner,Steffen Jorgensen,Ngo Van Long,Gerhard Sorger: Books[/ame]

[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Differential-Games-Mathematical-Applications-Optimization/dp/0486406822/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205737455&sr=1-16"]Amazon.com: Differential Games: A Mathematical Theory with Applications to Warfare and Pursuit, Control and Optimization: Rufus Isaacs: Books[/ame]

Submarine Theory:

- In the Navy, there's a term used to describe the visability of a submarine; and one to describe a sub which is not visable.. When a sub is not visable, it is said to be "periscope down", it's not looking around for any ships to target with it's torpedo; though the waters may or may not be safe, it's not blatantly obvious to the naked eye.. but when a sub is visable, it is said to be "periscope up", it's looking to shove a torpedo so far up a ship's hull that it has to look around for targets and reveal its position to an entire fleet.. it's a risky move for a sub, because in this state, all ships know its position, and can fire at will; while in "periscope up", the sub is vulnerable and defenseless..

This terminology is largely outdated, because modern technology allows for submarines to locate a ship, target it, and successfully hit it with its torpedo, all while remaining stealthed and not giving away any information to the ship or the rest of the fleet..

- Now, apply this to clubs.. 99% of guys are older-model subs.. They walk into a club, and are "periscope up" from the get-go.. The entire fleet of people instantly labels them as desperate as they walk around the entire room, looking around at girls, either alone, or with a group of guys.. These guys almost always end up going home alone.. and almost never end up talking to anyone but the bartender or bouncer..

- The point is to be "periscope down".. and there are many ways to do this, and you can and should combine all of them if you can..

1. Go there with girls - A single guy in the club is a loser with no friends.. a guy with a group of guy friends is a loser with loser friends.. but a group of guys, with even one girl in the group, changes the dynamic of the group.. all of a sudden, girls around you are interested in trying to figure out who this girl is, who she is attached to, who she is interested in, etc.. But in effect, your group is no longer a group of desperate guys (again, i'm not saying it is; i'm just talking about how it's perceived)

2. Don't look around the club - When I go out with Tony, he has this bad habit of litterally stopping, turning, and staring at women, sometimes he even yells "dude! check her out!".. Make sure nobody in your group does this.. it automatically has the effect of putting your group in "periscope up"-mode.. But more importantly, there's huge subcommunication here that works against your favor if anyone in your group does this.. It sends out the message that your group is not interesting or fun enough, and that your eye or attention must shift away from it in search of something more interesting.. By doing this, you imply that your group is of low-value.. You should be doing the opposite.. shutting out the rest of the room, sending out the message that your group, where YOU are, is the best, most interesting, and most fun place to be

3. Belong there - Make sure you either go there early, or were there an other day.. The manager, the bouncers, the bartender, should all know you and your group.. (DHV)

4. Have a reason - Again, guys going to a club are perceived as losers/desperate.. that's when they have no reason for being there.. and to fill in that lack of reason.. the reason for women becomes "they're single, losers, desperate, and most likely for a reason, low value".. So, have a reason for being at the club.. "To say hi to your friend who happens to be the bouncer/bartender/manager.. to celebrate your friend's hard-earend promotion/graduation/break-up/engagement/etc.."

5. Don't be specific, be general - Again with Tony, poor guy, i'll leave him alone after this.. He will ONLY talk to groups where there are women he's interested in.. This is a monumental mistake.. (1) because YOU feel like it's a big-deal.. (2) you fail to build up an aura/vibe about you that sends out the message that your group is just fun and social, and is going around talking to people in general, like it's no big deal.. so if it comes over and opens up this group that just-so-happens to have a girl someone is interested in, "it's not a big deal; it doesn't mean ANYTHING, because this group has been talking to everyone in general"

[GrkScorp]

1. Opening up sets outside of dance floor

So, the way to open up to groups off the dance floor is pretty primative, but also, pretty simple..

Warning (notties): (nottie; n: an attractive woman's friend who never gets any romantic/sexual attention from men, and as a result has grown a subconcious hate for the hottie of the group "for which she is not; hence the term", but for who she will continue to befriend and cockblock in an effort to make her hottie friend feel her pain, and so the ugly girl can feel a sense of validation after she gets to bash the guys she's cockblocked and comfort her hottie friend for never getting laid; social dynamics & female psychology state that there is ALWAYS at least one in each group of women) You can see why this would be a problem.. and the only way around it, is to target her first!

- Notties hate men, because men make them feel horrible.. especially in clubs, when they are standing next to and looking at her hottie friend(s).. The trick is, a well-trained wing.. Who will entertain her, talk to her, keep her drinking, or all three.. Part of being a well-trained wing includes "illusion".. The magic lies within not making the nottie feel like a nottie.. and at the same time, give her the illusion that she stands a chance with the wing keeping her busy.. To do this, I typically take on the role of the quiet/reserved/shy/timid friend.. it works perfectly, because they think to themselves that this guy is too nice, and must not have much success with women.. but he's so good-looking, yet he doesn't even know it, he's sweet, interesting, and accepting, (again, you're projecting low-self confidence in you're a wing trying to keep a nottie busy).. When the nottie feels like (1) it's not completely hopeless to get something going with the wing, (2) the wing doesn't see her or treat her as a nottie.. she leaves behind her nottie-face.. she snaps out of cockblock-manhate-mode.. and allows her feminine nature to take over.. acting in pure-self-interest, she can now care less about her friend(s) and is busy trying to give your wing her full attention to try and hook-up with him, or at least enjoy anything close to male romantic/sexual attention she can get..

Road-blocks:

- Alpha-Males-Of-Group.. (these guys are really easy to take care of.. I think i've already sent you some links and posted advice before on how to deal with these guys.. and let them dig their own grave with their own actions.. having them DLV.. and as they do, you take over the role as the Alpha of the group.. never fight, never insult; let them try and do that, it's a DLV.. if they try and put a hand on you.. i'll post a video soon on how to take care of that.. but for the most part, AMOGs are the second easiest road-block to take care of)

- Other guys.. (these are the easiest.. lol.. you need to come in, pay attention to them, gain their friendship, make sure they like you, and then pass them off to a wing or find him a girl in the club to keep him busy)

- Her friends.. (More on this later)

Opening:

- Passive Opening: (This is the one I use in such places).. You basically open up to every other group.. (except for "her" group).. around her.. creating the vibe & aura that you're a well-liked guy/group, that you're fun, interesting, safe, just having a good time, not desperate, etc.. In doing this, well-enough, and indirectly DHV-ing via tooling other groups around her.. you create the strong urge for her to come up and try to get a piece of the action, to get in on all the fun & hype; because she feels left-out.. Either her or her friend will come up to you and try and merge.. (it's possible to over-DHV, in which case you will be so intimidating that even 10's won't feel they're worthy enough of your attention)

- Indirect Opening: (To avoid the tragic fate of over-DHV-ing).. It's not that her group doesn't want to merge with yours, it's just that it doesn't feel it stands a chance, but you also don't want to open it up directly if it's a 9+.. so you open up indirectly.. (Best seen through examples; indirect openers are when you TOOL your current group, and in the context of your interaction, require something from an other random group.. "this is your excuse" which will act as the indirect opener)

Example:

To your current group: O.K. Guys, I want to show you something.. i'll lead you all, not just one of you, but all of you, to the same number.. but you guys can't pick it.. and I don't want you to think that i'm pulling a fast one on you.. so hold up.. let me ask some random person to write down a number that the rest of you aren't going to see..

(You ask person from new group to write down a random number on paper or your hand)

To new group: The rest of you can also play; just think of a number 1-10, but don't tell me.. and your friend can't tell you what number she wrote down.. blah blah (preform #-ESP-trick; and you've just opened up the new set, indirectly)

- Note, you can use this with a ton of interactive games, even the memory trick game, you can ask for an other person to write down 20 items.. or for an other person to hold the two lists so nobody feels like there's any cheating going on.. and before you know it.. you're indirectly merging sets..

Direct Opening: "Hey, you don't mind if I hit of you, do you?".. "You don't mind if me and my friends hit on your friends for the whole night, do you?".. "I always felt bad as a guy, because I couldn't dance, but seeing girls like you dance doesn't make me feel so bad anymore".. "So why did you come out tonight? (Her: lame answer/excuse) Ah huh.. Is that want you tell yourself? Seriously, why did you come out tonight? (Use this in the conversation after you open anyway, it destroys her frame)".. "You don't mind if I ask, but, aren't you a little too young to be wearing hair extentions?".. "I don't mean to be rude, but I think you need a bigger size shoe; one, this size makes your feet look kind of big, but more than that, they look really uncomfortable.. like they're crying.. don't you feel bad for them? Don't even try and tell me you're comfortable in those..".. "Guys.. please tell me you didn't come out tonight to be all quiet and to yourselves.. this isn't the place to be shy.."

[GrkScorp]

technical glitch 2 (it's not LF's fault, problem with proxy)

[Mish]

Last time i'll mention it; clubs, are the worst place to try and find girls.. Just because of the nature of them, and the motive for why girls gather there;

Agreed

I'm not quite sure what my friend's views are on these, but personally I see the clubs purely as simulation, a way to experiment with social dynamics, experiment lines, kino, see what works and what doesn't work in a place where nobody knows you, you can get away with most mistakes. As a simulation this is a good place to learn from simply to find out what works and what doesn't in basic human interaction. A good place to rehearse and prepare for real life situations of significance.

On an off note, some girls I've met in clubs turned out to be decent human beings, but I agree the self-centered ones really outnumber these.

Thanks for the suggestions Scorp, interesting

[Mish]

- Tip (1): Avoid the dancefloor at all costs.. If you happen to walk past it, make strong and powerful eye-contact that dominates, that sends out the message "There's no question of if I can have you or not, I can have girls like you anytime I want, but right now, I want you, but it's too loud to talk, and this isn't the place, so, whenever you're done "dancing and having fun", i'll be right there" (That look takes less than a second, make it count, and then keep walking away, don't get trapped on the dancefloor, you're a guy, you can't dance, you don't belong there)

- Tip (2): Avoid the dancefloor at all costs.. When she comes over, and you've introduced her to your group of friends (more on that later).. she will get the urge to ask you to come and dance.. consciously, she just wants to show off to other girls that she got male attention tonight and here he is, dancing next to her.. unconsciously, the urge to dance, is the urge to express one's self sexually.. So, when she asks you to dance, hit her back with "Hey, I just came here to relax and have fun with everyone here tonight, and right now i'm still relaxing, and dancing isn't exactly my idea of relaxing, but maybe later, ok?".. (later; will be a time when you feel that she's not using you as some dancefloor trophy to prove to other girls that she's getting male attention; but more importantly, "later" will be at some other place, and not this club!)

Hmm, I don't entirely agree on this. I think the dance floor offers some really good experience and learning opportunities. Just the dancing and physical interaction in itself is interesting and entertaining

Well, personal tips that I've found useful for the dance floor. Arm yourself with lots of shiny stuff!! In their "semi under the influence" states guided by hypnotic music girls in clubs on the dance floor seem to be drawn to shiny things like moths to the flame. They want to see it, they want to touch it, they want to touch you, they want the experience. Flashing lights and glow sticks seem to work quite well.

One awesome benefit of the glow stick is that it gives you additional special power. If a girl is unreasonably mean you can lightly poke her with a glow stick and witness her like a cat chase after it, come after you in hopes to poke you as revenge (lots of fun) or walk away. Each of which offers an interesting interaction opportunity or makes the girl loose value and walk away like a looser. I don't do this often because its demeaning to the girl, only in special circumstances (i.e. when she deserves it) Yeh, I can be mean