On the brink of ending it with my fiancee... Need a woman's perpsective!

[Dilema888]

I've been browsing through these forums and I think you guys have a great community. I have a problem with my fiancee that I need some advice on.

We had been together for a little over a year before I proposed (9 months of which we were living together), and we have been engaged for about a month so far. The fact that we are engaged has not really changed the relationship much, but we seem to have recurring problems that I don't know how to solve. I am 25 in June and she is 23 in August. When we first met she was very very insecure about herself (from a bad home-life, past relationships - she always left/pushed the guy away before she would be left) and we would fight alot. She would essentially be trying to push me away, always telling me how I deserve better, she's not good enough, etc. No matter what I would tell her it wouldn't make much difference. She went through a period when she would suffer from anxiety attacks (which would always have her asking me why don't I leave, I deserve better, can I really live like this for the rest of my life, etc etc), and I was always by her side supporting her.

She went to a psychologist (and has been there for 6 months or so), and a psychiatrist who has prescribed her Cipralex (Lexipro in the US as I recall). Things notably improved, but we would still occasionally fight (as any normal couple does, not major ones). We had a big fight about 2 weeks ago where she said she wanted to end it and gave me my ring back. I know some of the reasons for it getting to that point is my fault (issues since resolved - she felt I was being too critical of her behavior, and in retrospect, I unintentionally was), but she has a tendency to OVER-exaggerate things when we fight. Almost every single fight we had she would always say something like "maybe we aren't right for each other". We both love each other very very much and we have a great relationship, but I feel like her creating drama over small problems is getting me to reach my breaking point.

After our last fight when we almost broke it off (I could see she didn't really want to, and she needs someone to put things in proportions for her at this point in her life, because she can't), I apologized first for what I did wrong, and told her I don't ever want to hear her saying shes leaving me, or that maybe we should break up, just to get a reaction out of me. I told her not say that unless she means it, because I wont stand for it anymore. I wasn't assertive enough with her (my first serious relationship, I still have alot to learn) during the past and decided that my lack of taking action wasn't helping at all, and that I needed to put my foot down more often.

I don't want to paint a picture of her as a bad girlfriend, because she really isn't. We have an amazing time together (we traveled to New York for 2.5 weeks, were together all day everyday and we didn't even have a small argument - we just enjoyed each others' company), but whenever we fight she focuses on the negative too much. We had a SMALL argument last night at a picnic with some friends and her family-friends. She saw an ex of hers there with his girlfriend and I noticed her acting weird and getting kind of quiet. I know that in their relationship of 3 months (when she was 20) they were very much in love, but she drove him away because her self-esteem issues couldn't let her accept his love (her words). She tells me that is what she feels like she is doing now with me. That is nothing new to me, and every fight we had I would always reassure her, to no real avail. But when she started up again last night it was like something inside me snapped.

I asked her at the picnic why she was quiet and she said she didn't like her ex's girlfriend because she didn't feel like they were really in love, and that she was good for him (maybe not like her ex loved her?). I told her that he is a big boy and he can take care of himself, and that nobody knows how a relationship really is except for the couple. Enter argument/cold shoulder. That kind of set off alarm bells in my head, and I asked that night if she still had feelings for him. She told me she doesn't love him in a romantic way anymore, but she loves him as a friend and wants the best for him (she did start crying a little at this point). She isn't jealous of his girlfriend in the sense that she wants to be with her ex, she is jealous that his girlfriend can accept his love when she couldn't with him (which ruined the relationship), and can't with me.

During a given week we MIGHT have 1 or 2 small arguments, but last night she said she was sick of fighting EVERYDAY (Not even CLOSE to true). She said if we aren't saying I love you, having sex, or I don't know what, we are fighting. She told me we don't have anything to talk about (NOT TRUE at all) so we probably fight because we're bored. I've had this sort of conversation with her too many times. So I decided a different take. I just agreed with everything she said, really emphasizing the fact that we always fight. I asked her what she wanted to do, and she said "I think we've tried everything we can". I'm pretty sick of this shit... I went along with her and said we should both do some thinking.

So here I am in the morning just really really fed up that we keep coming back to the same point. I am tired of fighting the same fight, hearing the same nonsense. The thing is, I know she wants to be with me, but her constant feeling sorry for herself is taking me towards the breaking point. I need some advice on where to go from here. Maybe someone who went through a similar period can help me.. I'm wondering if being in a relationship is stopping her from moving on. I don't want to lose her or what we have, but I don't think I can live like this for the rest of my life. Is it just a maturity thing that she'll grow out of (it doesn't seem like it)? How can I help her to stop sulking over every little thing that doesn't go her way?

Thanks for taking the time to read all this, it feels great to take this off my chest! And if my english is not entirely correct, I apologize, I am not a native english speaker!

[vashti]

I don't think your concerns are at all inappropriate.

She has a history of having relationship problems due to her insecurity issues. This alone is a very good reason to reconsider your marriage plans. She may or may not outgrow this, but it is a pretty big issue to take a risk on, dont you think? She should resolve this problem before you marry her, and will probably need a therapist to do so.

Also, I think it is very odd she has such an emotional reaction to some guy she dated for only 3 months a few years ago. This would be a big red flag for me. Be careful about what you will accept in her - issues such as the ones you mention are quite toxic to a marriage.

[Dilema888]

Well, she has gotten much much better since she has started seeing her psychologist, so I don't think it is hopeless... But it just seems like it is a recurring thing and it is very frustrating! I feel like if I speak my mind I'll just be reading from the same script that I've said I've said to her a thousand times.

In regards to the ex, he is a family friends' son, so they knew each other for years before they became an item, so it was a friends becoming more than friends thing. I still think it weird for her to have the reaction she did... Any insight on what she might be thinking/feeling towards him? I don't want to be someone's second choice, I deserve better than that.

[vashti]

I don't know what she is thinking.

I am curious though, about why people seem so committed to making things work with "fixer-uppers". Is there a shortage of women where you live? I mean, for me, it seems life is too short to have to relive this kind of problem continuously.

Meh, I am probably just getting old.

[Dilema888]

You are probably right and I should just move on... but I love her very much, and she loves me.. it's difficult for me to just give up. In every other way she is great for me. She has just about everything I look for in a partner, and for me to give up because she isn't "perfect" seems kind of stupid to me. Nobody is perfect, everyone has their problems, and I don't want to regret it 5 years down the line when I'll be single after countless disappointing relationships... I just wish I knew what I could do to save this relationship.

I've been disappointed in women I've met in the past, I don't want to put myself back in that place unless I know I have tried every available option. I don't know... maybe because it's my first time being in love I don't know when to let go.

[bluesummer]

I am curious though, about why people seem so committed to making things work with "fixer-uppers".

I agree with you on this one, Vash. How can you possibly make a relationship work with someone that hasn't yet got themselves sorted out personally? I'm a firm believer of not being in a relationship until you have a grip on your life and your personal well-being.

You are probably right and I should just move on... but I love her very much, and she loves me.. it's difficult for me to just give up. In every other way she is great for me. She has just about everything I look for in a partner, and for me to give up because she isn't "perfect" seems kind of stupid to me. Nobody is perfect, everyone has their problems, and I don't want to regret it 5 years down the line when I'll be single after countless disappointing relationships... I just wish I knew what I could do to save this relationship.

To me, it doesn't sound like you are simply giving up.....you've put a lot of effort (and patience, my god!) into this relationship to keep it going. Note the phrase you used here, though: "...she is JUST ABOUT everything I look for in a partner..." Just about isn't good enough. Now, that's not saying she has to be a perfect person, but why would you settle for less than what is perfect for YOU? I learned the hard way about what happens when you 'settle' for someone because they have MOST (but not all) of the qualities you look for. I was divorced at 28!

It is also not your job to save her, either. She has to really want to do this, she has to be putting in some effort and making changes if she wants to be with you. From the sounds of things, she's not trying her best. Do you really want to be in a relationship with someone that keeps pushing you away? It's good that you're trying to be understanding about her 'issues', but how long are you going to put yourself through this? Simply loving someone is not reason enough to stay in a relationship.

[lesa]

It sounds like torture for a relationship that is less than two years old. I believe that a relationship cannot be healthy unless the couple is emotionally stable---she sounds very unstable.

[Dilema888]

Ahhh! I feel like I am in denial... Our good times are 95% of the time. It's just the 5% of the time when we fight/argue has me fed up. We don't even fight about serious stuff!! Alot of our fights are over a misunderstanding that gets blown out of proportion, never over more serious issues. She IS young, and she is committed to bettering herself (it was much much worse in the beginning, but we both matured alot since then, and she has kept seeing her psychologist), and it is a growing phase, not something that happens overnight.

Someone please yell at me and tell me I am in denial! ... Because I really don't think I am, and I do think this could work.. I am willing to put in the effort in a "fixer-upper" if there will be results.

Is the first love always the hardest to let go? Was everyone else also like this their first time (for those of you that didn't marry your first)?

[lesa]

Is the first love always the hardest to let go? Was everyone else also like this their first time (for those of you that didn't marry your first)?

Yes, the first is hard to let go, especially if there are no serious issues like cheating, violence, etc. I had difficulty when I realized that I will love him forever although it is better we go our separate ways. Now that I am over my first love, I find it easy to be carefree and not put up with bs or emotionally unstable individuals in a relationship. Now that I am over my first love, I feel I should increase my standards (my first was decent) to have a man who I feel is much better than me. Life is so much interesting and fun when I choose who I want to be with and know that I can end it if I feel I no longer want to be in the relationship. In my first relationship, it was great for about 5 years then in the last 2 or so years I wanted to stay only because I have invested in all that time and it was my first.

[IndiReloaded]

Noone expects perfection (or they shouldn't). But you'd be a fool to enter into a longterm relationship with someone who doesn't satisfy your basic relationship requirements. For some people, an unstable personality doesn't phase them (yikes), but for some its a dealbreaker.

Deal breakers eventually become relationship breakers. Whatever you choose to do, choose with your eyes wide open.

[bluesummer]

Is the first love always the hardest to let go? Was everyone else also like this their first time (for those of you that didn't marry your first)?

My first relationship was five years long, and breaking up with him felt like losing a limb. It was awful.....and it actually should have ended two years before that, but we were in denial and neither of us had balls enough to let go....so we just stayed and suffered. We weren't bad people, and we didn't have a horrible relationship....it just wasn't GOOD anymore. We didn't fight often, but when we did it was catastrophic.

You learn through each relationship, you get to know yourself and your needs better with each one. You never think it can get better, but it does. When you meet the one person that fits with you so perfectly and makes you so ahppy all of the time, it makes you wonder what the hell you were thinking holding on to these old useless relationships, and crying over people that didn't deserve your tears.

Mind you, we can tell you all you want; but as with all things, you don't really know until you go through it yourself. I think you are in denial, and I also think you know it. Stop being in denial about being in denial.

[IndiReloaded]

Someone please yell at me and tell me I am in denial! ... Because I really don't think I am, and I do think this could work.. I am willing to put in the effort in a "fixer-upper" if there will be results.

In my experience, and perhaps others will agree (?), one usually KNOWS, deep down, whether a relationship is going to work long term or not.

There's a little voice in you, somewhere, underneath all the chatter about not wanting to fail, and 'doing the right thing' that KNOWS what the right thing is.

If you love her, truly & believe this will make you happy, then stay & work on things. If not, then don't. You already know the answer, IMO. You're just hoping someone else will move you to it.

[Cain]

In my experience, and perhaps others will agree (?), one usually KNOWS, deep down, whether a relationship is going to work long term or not.

There's a little voice in you, somewhere, underneath all the chatter about not wanting to fail, and 'doing the right thing' that KNOWS what the right thing is.

If you love her, truly & believe this will make you happy, then stay & work on things. If not, then don't. You already know the answer.

Definitely agree.

My gf went through some serious emotional issues when we first started dating. She had been in a long, 4 year relationship a couple years prior that was absolutely horrible. She still hadn't gotten over it. And she was still grieving over the death of her best friend. It caused us to have issues the first few months we started dating... she was emotionally unstable.

But after a three week separation a few months in, we got back together. She had seen a therapist every week for a few months.. and with my support she finally got over everything. Se still grieves for her friend every now and then, but things are much better. We've had no problems for 8 months.

Deep down, I knew that she could be better, and that because I knew what kind of girl she was, the relationship would be amazing when that happened. This is the only girl I've ever been with where I thought the relationship would last. I always broke up with my ex's 3 months after it started.

[Dilema888]

Definitely agree.

My gf went through some serious emotional issues when we first started dating. She had been in a long, 4 year relationship a couple years prior that was absolutely horrible. She still hadn't gotten over it. And she was still grieving over the death of her best friend. It caused us to have issues the first few months we started dating... she was emotionally unstable.

But after a three week separation a few months in, we got back together. She had seen a therapist every week for a few months.. and with my support she finally got over everything. Se still grieves for her friend every now and then, but things are much better. We've had no problems for 8 months.

Deep down, I knew that she could be better, and that because I knew what kind of girl she was, the relationship would be amazing when that happened. This is the only girl I've ever been with where I thought the relationship would last. I always broke up with my ex's 3 months after it started.

Thanks for all your support, I really appreciate it!!

Every morning we wake up we cuddle and hold each other, we always send txt messages to each other how we miss and love each other. She is very loving, warm and caring, and isn't selfish when it comes to my needs (we are both so good to each other!)...

We are very affectionate towards each other - we haven't lost any of the passion since when we first met, well over a year ago, and I know that is something special. She is special. I'm sitting here at night fantasizing all sorts of things... from us reconciling, to me telling her off never wanting to see her again.. I'm all over the place!

I too always broke off whatever I had in the past relatively quickly (longest before her was 2 months) because I refused to settle. I've never had a serious girlfriend because my standards were very high. She really is a great partner, and I can't let that go too easily I suppose. Deep down inside I know that if we can work on this problem we will suceed... the question is if it is an uphill battle with no end in the near future...We'll see what tomorrow may bring.

[twisted]

I admire you for taking the shit and loving her anyways. I can see a similar situation to yours in my relationship. Not entirely healthy. I assure you, you WILL get fed up ultimately, and if she really cares about you and enough about you as a couple, she'll make an effort to change. I know I did and although we still have issues, we've at least overcome the self esteem ones. I'm sorry for what you have to put up with, I know it's not easy! Props to you, you're a good guy.