"The Rules" for men...

[pisces7378]

A really great ex-girlfriend of mine has been helping me out incredibly with relationship advice.

I finally asked her how on Earth she got so smart when it came to relationships. She said that she read a book called "The Rules". She said that it is of course not a 100% catch all for everything, but it is a good place to start when trying to understand why men do what they do etc.

Well, I am reading "The Rules of the Game" by Neil Strauss. It is a cool book somehow, but it seems really geared towards "Average Frustrated Chumps" that are too shy or have zero confidence to talk to women enough to even get to know new women. Well, I don't really have that problem at all.

I am not that shy, and I have tons of confidence. So, I can get telephone numbers all day long. My problem starts where that books leaves off... what to do next. If I call immediately, or twice in one day, or leave more than one message or this or that... I start to get a little uncomfortable and lose the head game.

I know that there are no "rules" like, "always wait two days after getting a number in a bar, but after a first date, always call to say you had a nice time... blah blah blah." But there MUST be some kind of book that can give me some guidelines.

[girl68]

Don't know about a book but the only thing I do know is for me *personally* I like when a guy calls because he likes me and can't wait to talk to me (nevermind days, hours whatever or the "rules"). BUT this only works when I like him just the same.

So if you sense she likes you, just call. Call first... too many mistakes and signal mis reading happens in texting especially in the beginning.

[kapneb92]

Rule#1: Who needs rules? Figure it out.

[Sanctuary]

Rule#1: Who needs rules? Figure it out.

He's right.

Rule #1 : There are no rules.

::punches you in the face::

[Sanctuary]

Oh, I should probably give you actual advice.

It doesn't matter how many days you wait but it matters that you don't come off as overeager.

Generally, I don't see much advantage in waiting 2 days anyway. The '2 day rule' is bullshit if you ask me.

[kapneb92]

Oh, I should probably give you actual advice.

It doesn't matter how many days you wait but it matters that you don't come off as overeager.

Generally, I don't see much advantage in waiting 2 days anyway. The '2 day rule' is bullshit if you ask me.

Hear hear.

[MVPlaya]

Look, the Rules is horse-shit that got popularized with clever marketing and name-dropping by magazines and pop-culture icons. The book is not only not a good description of what women should do, it is, in many ways, sexist and ridiculously out of date.
"Always let the guy win"

Its a bunch of drivel that would actually disqualify women from being relationship material in my eyes.

Rules of the Game is not a male counter to the Rules, as much as Neil Strauss tries to equate his writings with Cosmo and popular chick lit. I read Rules of the Game & the Game (as well as Emergency, which was the stupidest book Neil Strauss has ever written, good ****ing god). RotG is basically a beginners course for basic PU, it won't help you further down the line, and in many ways, thats a good thing.

I see so many guys who try to get all heavy into PU / social arts and they become clones of guys like Style & Mystery and lose their own identity in the process, or, worse, never develop their own identity, doing all their social learning by copying social artists.


When you have a girl's phone number, take her out. What you do from there is for you to learn. If you can get women's phone numbers, figure out what you want to do and how to get there. There's no good book to tell you the magic that comes after the number, you just have to be a person that people want to be with. So focus on becoming that person. Seems you've already got confidence down.


As for when to call, as long as its not too late, you're good. I'll sometimes call the very next day, or I'll tell them before I call them that we should do xyz, and then I call to set it up formally.

[Cbrider]

"Always let the guy win"

I foresee a lot of men with broken noses if they believe this.

Dominance is something lions and baboons do, not a species as advanced as ours.

[Heratriumphant]

Have you ever looked at The Rules?

<puke>

It is the biggest pile of horse shit i've ever encountered.

Any man you could win by "The Rules" is not worth having.

[Graham Berkeley]

Actually "The Rules" and books like it can make a guy VERY successful at getting numbers of women who have no self esteem and are not relationship material.

[FullofSighs]

screw the rules, play your own game. If a girl doesn't like your game, then she ain't worth it. Following books doesn't make you, you. It starts to make you the person writing those God forsaken piece of shit things. Do what you feel is right and you'll live to be a happier person.

[pisces7378]

Alright... perhaps you guys aren't understanding me. I am not looking for a strict guideline. And I am WAY too lazy to actually read "The Rules of the Game" and actually do all those exercises and learn how to copy pick up artists. I am only in it to glean those small little details that fascinate me. For example, I am kind of a nervous person by nature, so I tend to sit on the edge of my chair with my elbows on my knees and face whomever I am talking to. I never really thought about it. It is just how I sit. But once I read that this sort of "overly-plugged-in" body language telegraphs a lot of intent and interest, and it turns girls off. And it is f-ing true. I started just paying attention to how I sit. If I lean back, and shove my back against the back of the chair and slide my ass down towards the front and cross my legs, and lay my hands on the tops of my legs, I automatically feel "cooler" and it has worked like a freaking charm. I seem calmer to girls, and they seem to trust me more, and my "game" has increased ten fold, just by learning to lean on the bar rather than just stand next to it holding me beer as if I am about to lose it if I set it down. And that is all I changed; my posture. I didn't learn any of the opening lines, or memorize crap about approaching a set, or any of the annoying acronyms about AFCs using NLP to stop being an NG and come out of NC to become an IM and... blah blah blah.

So, I would love to find a book about dating, if nothing else just so I can read it and have it in mind. Like I said, I am too lazy to actually memorize it or use it against my own intuition. But I have had a few dating experiences lately where the girl seemed interested in me, but then I either played it too cool or not cool enough or whatever, because she started ignoring my texts, or like waiting 5 days to respond and that kind of BS. And it has made me wonder. Because I talked to an ex-girlfriend about it, and she said things like "Well first of all, when you didn't call her the next day after you kissed, that was like a rejection to her. She probably felt like you didn't like it or something, or that you were playing a game."

I was like, "But I did that to give her space, and not seem over-eager." She was like, girls like it when a man is into them. It makes them feel good. And I was like, "Maybe, but it put me in a very submissive role of being the chaser and not the chasee. And we went back and forth, and she just kept making excellent point after excellent point. And she was getting it all from "the Rules".

Also, things like text messages vs. phone calls. Facebook vs. email vs. text messages vs. phone calls??? I am 31 years old, I did not grow up in the information age. I got my first email address at age 18 as a freshman in college. A lot of the girls I date are 24-26 and sometimes even 21-23, and I feel like I am so behind the 8-ball with how to communicate. These girls are like ninja's with text messages. They know precisely when and how to text, and how short messages come across like this, vs. long messages that come across like that. Using words like "hang out tonight" vs. "do something together tonight" and so on.

I'm just tired of feeling like I am from Mars.

[Gigabitch]

If you're from Mars, you just need to find another Martian. I hope you do.

[MrFantabulous]

rule number one.... Don't read books to help your game.
rule number two.... If she gave you her phone number, she wants you to call her.
rule number 3.... Call them the day after, or the next day.... After 3 days they start forgetting they gave you their number.
rule number 4.... You seem like a cool guy, so just do what you do when you meet up, take her somewhere active. Don't do the dinner and a movie on the first time meeting up again, that is just weird. Coffee is for people trying to date, or old exes or something. Take her to a karaoke bar or something.