Girlfriend no longer interested in sex. At my wit's end.

[VincenzoG91]

Those of you who thought we might not make it until May may in fact be right.

That was me, in post #17.

But the post that you really should take a hard look at again is #51, where squestion said she was your girlfriend, kind of. She brought up some interesting points, and you might want to ponder them more carefully.

[squestion]

"I guess I thought I was happy," she said. "I really did. But I haven't been for a while now. Not UNhappy, but not happy either. I was unable to face it because I still love you anyway and... I'm afraid of being alone." (This is a recurring theme with her.)

I asked her why she no longer felt the same way, and she said it may have something to do with the fact that I was "more confident" when we met. When we met I had another job. One in which I was miserable but was in a position of power. As I worked very long hours, she would come in and hang out and watch me work so that we could spend time together. This is the guy she fell in love with, I think. The guy wearing the suit, making the decisions, telling people what to do. Then I lost my job. Then I got very sick. Then I spent every dime I had on getting better. (No insurance).

This is just what I was telling you.... that she may be no longer attracted to you. She was attracted to you at the beginning of the relationship because you were more confident, you were trying to make her fall in love with you, but after a while you changed, like everybody else does: they no longer try to be attractive etc. The fact that you displayed your love for her so much, revealed a vulnerable side of your personality. We girls like to be trated as princesses by our bfs, but we dont`t want a weak man in our lives, and you became weak, because you "love her to pieces" as you said. Sometimes girls are masochists ( believe me, I know : | ) and because you acted calmly after you found out about her escapade made it worse, because her guilt was even stronger. It`s not wrong to yell, just don`t hit her. If you acted more fiercely, maybe she would have seen that you can be an alpha male as well. Somehow, girls like to have a bad boy next to them, not someone who is too sensitive. I think that she has thought of braking up with you, but she is afraid of loneliness, as she herself told you. She has been in this relationship for quite some time, and it would be difficult for her to start again and to get used with being alone, to let go of the daily things that she did with you etc. And also, she is afraid of letting you go because she feels very guilty for acting a little bitchy. when girls see that their significant other suffers because of them, they feel guilty and they stay with that guy so they don`t see him suffer, but in reality they are just making the agony last longer. Maybe if you had been more tough, she would have still considered you attractive and wouldn`t have cheated on you. I`m saying these things, because as i said, i resemble your gf very much and i can undersatnd how you feel and how your gf feels as well... and trust me... she is very confused right now, she doesn`t know what to do... she would love to let you go but she is at the same time very afraid : afraid of hurting you, afraid of being alone and maybe missing you and then she will regret etc. And maybe she sais she loves you, but i think that she feels very guilty and she mistakens the feeling of guilt with love... I`m just saying... But I`m telling you.... she is very very very confused right now and I thinks that she suffers as well, because she can see that you are doing your best to make the relationship work, but it just doesn`t work for her and she feels bad because she doesn`t know what to do

[ftm]

I think that she is lying like crazy to you right now, and you're taking this way too passively.

I bet she's been hooking up with this other guy for a while now, and by hooking up, I mean sex. She is lying, and the truth would probably cause even you to dump her immediately.

No. I believe her. She came home immediately and told me. She woke me up for God's sake. In fact, she even tried to call mee from the cab to talk about it but I was asleep at the time.

The fact is, she hadn't really done anything dodgy in the past to suggest she's been with anyone else. If she has been cheating on me, she's done an amazing job of concealing it, and she's actually one of the worst secret-keepers I know. if she has something you don't know, she can't stand the pressure and HAS to tell you.

Her sex drive came back because it often does when she drinks. Moreover, there was the whole ignoring her changed feelings for me....

I don't need to imagine she screwed around more with the guy. What actually happened was bad enough. Yesterday she actually tried to downplay the severity of what happened and I let her have it. To me, it doesn't freaking matter what she *didn't* do with the guy. It's what she DID do. For two hours.

Just pack your stuff and leave while she's at work. I did that once and it was the best feeling ever. It was better than any physical orgasm I had ever had, it was like my soul had an orgasm. Once you rid yourself of her and her negativity, and her lying, and her insensitivity you will feel worlds better. Just be sure to cut all contact so that you aren't tempted to go back.

Hahaha... I have a LOT of stuff. I'd have to come in here with an army of movers to pull that off. It's just not going to work.

It could be worse than you're thinking. Maybe her "sex drive" dropped around the time she started dating this other guy. This cheating may have been going on for a while now.

Nope. Don't think so.

ftm, what if you went out and kissed another woman? would you be able to forgive yourself and still stay with your girlfriend?

I'm not really sure exactly what you are getting at. She didn't just "kiss" a guy. He kissed her, and then they kissed again, and again and again and again. For two hours. If I did something like that I'd be beside myself with grief because I would know how much I had hurt her.

If everything in our relationship were just great I'd say we could survive this, but because of how unhappy things have been for so long I really do have my doubts. We need to have a sober assessment of things and a firm grasp of what we are dealing with. If we do break up, neither of us wants it to be any uglier than it needs to be.

As for all her groveling and her NOW wanting to do things immediately and as quickly as possible, doesn't that raise some red flags? Is this panic in her voice because she committed the cardinal sin of dating? Does she really want to do this because she feels for you or because she feels guilty and wants some reprieve? Is she losing her cushion?

I fear that may be part of it. I think that her "fear of being alone" plays a bigger part of things than even she realizes. We were supposed to go to a play today. We'd had plans for the past week or so. After all this crap happened, she asked if I would still go with her. I told her I would have to think about it. Then SHE said, in tears: "If you don't come with me then I'll have to go alone, and I don't want to go alone."

Even after I confronted her on it I don't think she realized how revealing that was. She's reallly good these days at supplying the revealing comments.

I don't think that she's into you anymore, ftm. Otherwise, the sudden reversal of her sex drive problem is simply inexplicable, since it allegedly happened in mere hours with a perfect stranger. Unless he is some kind of amazing dude or you really suck (probably neither), it just doesn't make sense that her libido would be gone for so long and then suddenly return. I really think that she has been lying to you for some time now. And during that passionate make-up sex, she was probably thinking about that other guy.

It wasn't make-up sex. We have not made up.

And there's nothing with this guy. At least not YET. I questioned her on this and am satisfied with my answers. But, yes, what happened with them may be a symptom of the fact that she's no longer attracted to me in the same way, something she frreely admitted herself in the aftermath.

And that timeline for the other night doesn't make sense. She completely missed out on meeting up with your group, then hooked up with random stranger guy at the bar? No, because skipping your deal was going on for several hours... that isn't oops, I lost track of time, that's pretty deliberate on her part. Ask her what really happened. I think it was a date.

Nah. She was there with friends and was having a good time and didn't want to leave. Things started up with this guy towards when everyone else had left. It was actually after she had informed me she wasn't coming over to where I was, which makes me think she may haave anticipated that *something* was going to happen and her curiosity and urges got the better of her.

But it wasn't a date. It just wasn't. She and I have been through it a bunch of times and I believe her. But it doesn't *need* be a date. What happened was more than bad enough.

[ftm]

This is just what I was telling you.... that she may be no longer attracted to you. She was attracted to you at the beginning of the relationship because you were more confident, you were trying to make her fall in love with you, but after a while you changed, like everybody else does: they no longer try to be attractive etc. The fact that you displayed your love for her so much, revealed a vulnerable side of your personality. We girls like to be trated as princesses by our bfs, but we dont`t want a weak man in our lives, and you became weak, because you "love her to pieces" as you said.

I admit that I have been a little too weak in all of this. I have been, in fact, far stronger in this relationship than I've been in the last one, but have only just recently been asserting myself when it comes to my needs in a strong enough way to get results. For a long time I was saying, 'Just so you know, I'm not happy with this." Now I've been saying, "This is what I need. It needs to change, or else." But maybe it's been too late for that sort of change. Perhaps the damage was already done.

As far as I am concerned, she changed first. When she lost her job and got depressed, the sex stopped. She was unwilling to work with my suggestions at the time and ignorred how it was making me feel, and things spiraled from there. Perhaps I am wrong. Perhaps it was me all along. Perhaps her depression had nothing to do with it. Maybe I am delusional. I don't know. I am just a man trying to do the very best he can.

Sometimes girls are masochists ( believe me, I know : | ) and because you acted calmly after you found out about her escapade made it worse, because her guilt was even stronger. It`s not wrong to yell, just don`t hit her.

I am not the hitting type, though I have to admit that I was tempted on a couple of occasions over the past 2 days.

I deeply feel that yelling in this situation would not be productive. I stayed "calm", but it's not as if I said "okay, whatever," and let her do her thing.

Maybe you are right. Maybe I need to work on being more prickly, more aggressive, and more of an a**hole on occasions. If/when this is over, I'll be seriously re-assessing myself as I prepare for my next involvement with someone.

If you acted more fiercely, maybe she would have seen that you can be an alpha male as well. Somehow, girls like to have a bad boy next to them, not someone who is too sensitive. I think that she has thought of braking up with you, but she is afraid of loneliness, as she herself told you. She has been in this relationship for quite some time, and it would be difficult for her to start again and to get used with being alone, to let go of the daily things that she did with you etc. And also, she is afraid of letting you go because she feels very guilty for acting a little bitchy. when girls see that their significant other suffers because of them, they feel guilty and they stay with that guy so they don`t see him suffer, but in reality they are just making the agony last longer. Maybe if you had been more tough, she would have still considered you attractive and wouldn`t have cheated on you. I`m saying these things, because as i said, i resemble your gf very much and i can undersatnd how you feel and how your gf feels as well... and trust me... she is very confused right now, she doesn`t know what to do... she would love to let you go but she is at the same time very afraid : afraid of hurting you, afraid of being alone and maybe missing you and then she will regret etc. And maybe she sais she loves you, but i think that she feels very guilty and she mistakens the feeling of guilt with love... I`m just saying... But I`m telling you.... she is very very very confused right now and I thinks that she suffers as well, because she can see that you are doing your best to make the relationship work, but it just doesn`t work for her and she feels bad because she doesn`t know what to do

I really appreciate your responses on my thread. What you are saying is sort of a more thorough and clear-eyed version of what she said to me yesterday morning.

----

If she truly does no longer feel the same way about me, there may be no way to really get that back. not after all that's happened, particularly because, as much as *I* don't want to admit it, I feel differently, too. Even after things got bad I still looked at her the same way. I was just as in love, she was just as maddeningly attractive. but now I wonder whether my attraction has turned into something purely physical. I look at her now and see nothing but a confused girl who doesn't appreciate me. Can we both get it back? What would we have to do to make it happen?

I get the sense that most, if not all of the people here think I should pack up and leave as soon as possible. Maybe you are right. Maybe that would be the perfect solution. but I don't want to give up until I am SURE. I am a fighter. We are going to counseling because we have trouble mediating our own discussions on these issues. For now, we aren't even sure if we have everything left to save, or nothing. We love each-other but we don't know what that means. Neither of us wants the other to be unhappy, and neither of us wants to be without the other person.

Maybe the next month will just be about mutually gathering strength to let each other go. I don't know.

[Incognito]

But it wasn't a date. It just wasn't. She and I have been through it a bunch of times and I believe her. But it doesn't *need* be a date. What happened was more than bad enough.

That sounds like classic denial. I'm not saying that it did indeed go down that way, but to flatly deny that it could have happened when you don't know the details points to you believing what you want to believe. You are making her statements "convenient truths" because you want to believe. Don't discount anything unless she can disprove it.

As far as having your stuff moved.....where there is a will there is a way. I made a list two weeks before of everything that I was going to take, wrote on the list where in the car it would go to maximize my space, and then executed it like a game of Tetris when the day came. It sounds more to me that you don't yet have the will to carry out such a task, but believe me you CAN do it (especially if you have a friend help.....I didn't).

[Goosio]

I think that her "fear of being alone" plays a bigger part of things than even she realizes. We were supposed to go to a play today. We'd had plans for the past week or so. After all this crap happened, she asked if I would still go with her. I told her I would have to think about it. Then SHE said, in tears: "If you don't come with me then I'll have to go alone, and I don't want to go alone."

She should've thought of that before she sucked on that guy's face for two hours.

[ftm]

Okay, so I'm sure than many of you must be pretty tired of this thread, and might be thinking "drop this girl already."

Just try to imagine that what is good is so good that I feel it's worth fighting to save it. Okay?

With that in mind, here goes another bump in the road:

First off, let me say that since her betrayal on sunday we've been having some of the best sex we've ever had, have been talking more honestly than we have in months, and have both pretty much been on the same page about fighting this out. We made an appointment to see a couples therapist. We've both been honest that we aren't sure it's going to work out but really want to try. She's gone back on her earlier sentiments that she "doesn't feel the same way about me" or "feels differently." She's really gone huge strides in changing how she's relating to me. And, magically, she's suddenly about to have sex on a consistent basis. I don't know why our relationship has to be screwed up beyond belief in order for her to have a sex drive, but there it is. For my part, I have made strides to be more "assertive" in my life. I've taken care of a few nagging issues/tasks in my life over the past few days, and both she and I have been glad for it. Yesterday morning, she pointed out that it's been one of the most "productive" weeks we've ever had together. And I agree.

Through all of this I have consoled myself with her honesty. On sunday she came home immediately and told me everything that had happened. I had this to rely on. When I've thought of how screwed up things have gotten, I've thought of this. On that level, I trusted her: She could betray me, but not lie to me. This was good, no?

She had met the guy she made out with because he's was an actor in a play that she was the production manager for during feb/march. The show has been over for several weeks. Sunday was "sunday night drinking club," a weekly thing that some folks with this theater company do together. She's been talking a long time about attending. I've long resisted knowing exactly who the guy was she did this stuff with, but I have asked a few choice questions. For instance, she's stayed on with this company to manage their next show. On Wednesday, we were in the shower together. I asked my girlfriend whether "this guy" was a permanent member of the company and is involved with the show she's working on now. She told me "no." She said that he was just involved in the last show and is not involved in the next. She said the chances were she would never see him again. And she had told me, previously, that she had hardly known him before sunday night, and that this was just a random hookup with some random guy.

Well, early this morning I got a surprise!

I was finishing up at work (I work nights) and she told me that if she was asleep when I got home that she'd like me to wake her because she'd "like to spend some time with me" when I got home. Given how things have been going over the last few days, I assumed she wanted to make love. We wouldn't be having an opportunity for a while after that. I also knew that shed spent the evening with one of her girlfriends talking about all of this and was probably feeling newly guilty. When I woke her up, however, sex was not on her mind.

She asked me to stay silent until she was finished.

She told me that she had lied to me on Wednesday. That this guy WAS a long-term member of the theater company, and that he is involved in the current show. She said she had lied to me in the shower because she was afraid that if she told me the truth at that moment that it would ruin our chances of reconciling. She said she's felt bad as soon as she'd lied, but then couldn't figure out how to tell me the truth. After some questioning, I found out that they had started to become "friends" before sunday night. She was already intrigued by him. Looked up to him, you could say. My girlfriend told me that she and this guy have already talked about what happened and have mutually agreed that they will only be friends from here on out, and what had happened was inappropriate and the result of drunken bad decisions. She said that this was a relief to her because "she can see him becoming an important friendship in her life." She feels somehow kindred with him.

After this, I finally asked who it was specifically. She told me, and yes, it was someone who she had spoken of warmly to me on a few occasions. I've met him.

I told her that if this were someone she had just met who wasn't involved in her professional life, I'd ask her to sever all ties. Or, if it were an ex or something. But to ask her to sever all ties would be asking her to quite the theater company, which is just not reasonable. (I mean, would she ask me to quit my job if I made out with one of the myriad sexy women that I work with?) So I told her that she can know him in a professional context, but that "as long as you and I are together, the two of you cannot be friends. End of story."

I expected my girlfriend to immediately agree with this. After all, she's betrayed my trust, twice. Here was something I was offering her to do, some small thing, to start to build that trust back. After all, she has a lot of work to do, since lying to me on wednesday has made it hard for me to believe anything she tells me, since she's proven she's willing to lie to make herself more secure in a situation, disregarding how it might affect me.

She didn't agree immediately. She hemmed and hawed over my ultimatum for over and HOUR! She said that intellectually what I asked made perfect sense, but that a part of her was furious at me for presuming to tell her who she can and can not be friends with. After all, it should be up to her, right? She kept asking "is this forever or just for now? Do you think that there might be a time in the future when you'd be okay with us being friends?"

Later she took a different approach, saying that she'd be able to understand my feelings if she had been SOBER when she'd made out with him, or if she'd slept with him, but because it had been drunken that I should somehow be more lenient. She said that she thinks this could lead to her resenting me. I said, "What about leading to ME resenting YOU for putting me in this kind of position. You ever think of that?" I also said a few other choice things like, "If you wanted this guy to be in your life as a friend so bad, you should have thought of that before you made out with him for two hours. You should have known that if my relationship with YOU wasn't going to change, you'd have to sacrifice your relationship with him."

The way I see it, she's know this guy for a few months, and she's know ME for nearly 2 years. Supposedly, I'm a big priority for her, so this should be a no-brainer! I'd expect the same ultimatum from her if the roles were reversed, and I'd submit to it GLADLY.

Then my girlfriend said the freakiest thing of the day. She said, "You know, all this just makes me haunted by the notion that it might have been less harmful in the end for me to never have told you about this. I could have dealt with it on my own, known it was a drunken mistake, known it wasn't going to happen again, and could have just kept you out of the loop. Then you wouldn't have been upset and our relationship would have continued on as normal. What good has come out of me telling you about ANY of this?"

All of this is revealing to me how after her own self-interests my girlfriend really is. I don't know how I can trust her again after some of these things.

She said, later, that she thought I was reasonable about her friendship with him, and that she didn't know why she had fought so hard against it. She said that the thing about "better to not tell" was just a knee jerk reaction, a momentary thought, and that she'd wanted to express it to me in order to be "honest" with me about her feelings. But I don't know. I'm starting to think she'd really not built for the kind of commitment I am after.

So, in the end, she says she'll do as I ask, but after all of that discussion it almost feels like too little too late. And I suspect that she WILL resent me for it, which is CRAP.

[SirWagginston]

dump her dump her now

[lahnnabell]

If this girl were secure in her feelings and thoughts for you, she would not have let this guy even come close to her. In my experience, if one person begins to have serious doubts and beings to pull away, its pretty much over anyway. Any other "working it out" or emergency measures taken to reignite fire into the relationship are just prolonging the drama. I've been in a few relationships that have gone stale and after that point there was no going back.

The older you get and the more experience you have, the more you realize that these little setbacks happen and you face them together, not by jumping the bones of some guy you JUST met in a bar and then feeling sorry about it later.

[lovelyladie]

I would def sit back and think long and hard about staying in that relationship, she doesnt respect you nor care about what she has done. Wishing you all the best.Hhang in there you sound like a great guy and dont need to put up with her crap!

[VincenzoG91]

So many layers of lies. You really can't trust her anymore. Save yourself any further pain and drop her now.

[cmacattack1]

This is turning into a power struggle, where you assume she'll agree and give in because she owes it to you. It's getting ugly.

[sookie6]

Right

I haven't read other peoples posts so someone might have already told you that.

Reading you and your attitude with your gfriend I get this sick feeling of a man who is just weak, dependent, spineless and ..wet...

And she is taking advantage of your so-called kindness that I will personally call fear of being dumped because sex is the best I've ever had with her and because I'm not sure another woman will have me...

Instead of analysing a woman who has cheated and lied to you and managed to manipulate you into thinking that somehow you were ta fault (let us not forget she is in the acting business) you should focus on yourself.

Break all ties with this woman and take sometime alone...to build yourself as a man...a strong, independent man with a high self esteem.

SHOULD I POINT OUT THAT I AM A WOMAN?

You might think that you have been behaving like a gentleman but the way you have behaved, unable to kick her arss to gain some respect I would not date you.

[ftm]

I would def sit back and think long and hard about staying in that relationship, she doesnt respect you nor care about what she has done. Wishing you all the best.Hhang in there you sound like a great guy and dont need to put up with her crap!

I promised her some time ago that I'd go to counseling with her if things ever got to this point. She made the gesture of scheduling for us to do so during what will be the busiest time of her semester. I have to see it through. But, honestly, short of some miracles, and a big change in her ever-emerging perspective (a surprisingly self-centered one) I am out of here.

This is turning into a power struggle, where you assume she'll agree and give in because she owes it to you. It's getting ugly.

I don't assume anything. Not anymore. I assumed she was at least honest, but now I don't have that. Moreover, she lies only to protect herself and has shown over the past year that her own "comfort"" (as she likes to put it) is more important than my happiness.

Reading you and your attitude with your gfriend I get this sick feeling of a man who is just weak, dependent, spineless and ..wet...

And she is taking advantage of your so-called kindness that I will personally call fear of being dumped because sex is the best I've ever had with her and because I'm not sure another woman will have me...

With all due respect: What are you talking about? Where have I said that I'm afraid of being dumped? SHE'S the one who's afraid of me leaving her because she's afraid to be alone. Seems like perhaps it doesn't quite matter who she's with, so long as there's someone there. But if she were to tap out of this tomorrow, I'd be relieved, because it would seem like she's being totally honest for once.

Not sure another woman would have me? I am POSITIVE another woman would have me. I've had freaking offers like you wouldn't believe over the past months, but I've declined them all because I've actually got some self-control and respect for my girlfriend. I got hookup offers when sober, and drunk, and I never so much as TOUCHED another woman.

Instead of analysing a woman who has cheated and lied to you and managed to manipulate you into thinking that somehow you were ta fault (let us not forget she is in the acting business) you should focus on yourself.

When did I ever say that I was at fault? I've done nothing to deserve this. I've been nothing but good to her, better than anyone ever has been, something she freely admits. I think I have been "too good," actually, but that's not reason to behave the way she's behaved. I feel no guilt. I deserve none of this. SHE, on the other hand, has been so anxiety-ridden that she has hardly been able to eat for days. SHE deserves THAT.

Break all ties with this woman and take sometime alone...to build yourself as a man...a strong, independent man with a high self esteem.

SHOULD I POINT OUT THAT I AM A WOMAN?

You might think that you have been behaving like a gentleman but the way you have behaved, unable to kick her arss to gain some respect I would not date you.

I am going to assume that you haven't read all of this thread, because I am sure I have not misrepresented myself. I've been very specific with her and she knows she may lose me. I've forbidden her to talk about anything beyond the end of this month because, frankly, I'm not sure we're going to make it that far. She knows what the deal is. Or, at least, she should by this point.

As for you not dating me, I realize I'm not for everyone. There are millions of other women out there.

I am shocked, actually, that so many people here just want me to give up tomorrow. She's actually willing to work on this right now. I should take her up on that offer. YES, I realize that the chances are slim that things are going to go my way here, and if they don't, believe me: I am prepared to leave. But I have to give it a shot. I'm a worker. I like to work at things. I'm not yet 100% willing to give up on something I've put two years of my life into.

But I get what you all are saying: You think there's no hope. You think that this woman is not the right material for the kind of commitment/relationship that I am looking for. You may be right. You are probably right. It looks like you are right. But until she realizes that deep failure within herself, I don't want to go anywhere. I don't want to leave with her having the satisfaction of feeling "wronged" by me, as though I somehow didn't have it in me to see this through. She's the one that doesn't have it in her, so it would seem. Until we stare that down, I'm not going to sleep at night, no matter how far away from her I get.

Who knows, maybe I'll be disappointed by this whole therapy process. It wouldn't be the first time I've been disappointed in all of this.

[oneandonly]

The minute you walk out of her life, she will realise her failure. Even if she feels "wronged" by you, so what? Why do you care? What's there to see through? When you both agreed on therapy, you firmly believed she wasn't cheating on you. She wouldn't have had time, right? Does that still sound about right? NO! Perhaps not to the extent what she has done but I bet she's been cheating on you emotionally for quite some time. The bottom line is she is absurdly a selfish person. No amount of work you put into this sort of person will change her characteristics. So save your 'seeing through' well intended nature for something and someone worthwhile. She is not it.