Girlfriend no longer interested in sex. At my wit's end.

[sookie6]

Ftm I know that what I said was unkind but I stand by it.

When I said that I would not date you I didn't mean it as in 'I am too good for you'.

What I meant is that we ought to be in relationships with people who not only love us but also help us better ourselves.

Do not let anyone treat you like she has done since she slept with the other man. If I cheated on someone and that person forgave me and even walked me through it like you seem to have done I would not respect him because it means there's no boundaries to what is allowed.

Now you might want an open relationship, which is valid if it's established.

I also want to assure you that I have read ALL your posts (I just didn't read all the other posters).

[ftm]

The minute you walk out of her life, she will realise her failure. Even if she feels "wronged" by you, so what? Why do you care? What's there to see through? When you both agreed on therapy, you firmly believed she wasn't cheating on you. She wouldn't have had time, right? Does that still sound about right? NO! Perhaps not to the extent what she has done but I bet she's been cheating on you emotionally for quite some time. The bottom line is she is absurdly a selfish person. No amount of work you put into this sort of person will change her characteristics. So save your 'seeing through' well intended nature for something and someone worthwhile. She is not it.

I admit that you may be right.

Ftm I know that what I said was unkind but I stand by it.

When I said that I would not date you I didn't mean it as in 'I am too good for you'.

What I meant is that we ought to be in relationships with people who not only love us but also help us better ourselves.

Do not let anyone treat you like she has done since she slept with the other man. If I cheated on someone and that person forgave me and even walked me through it like you seem to have done I would not respect him because it means there's no boundaries to what is allowed.

Well, she didn't sleep with him. She made out with him in a bar, drunk. (However, I don't see the drinking as an even remotely valid excuse. She shouldn't have ever put herself in the position for this to happen in the first place.) Had she actually gone home with him, and THEN lied to me about the fact that she'd still be seeing him professionally on a regular basis, and wanted to be his friend, I probably wouldn't be here right now. I'm pretty sure of it, actually. But, she didn't sleep with him.

And I haven't forgiven her.

However, now that she's established that she's even capable of thinking that it would have been "better" not to tell me about any of this makes me think that in the future she may not be as forthcoming. I don't know how to live with that long-term. I don't believe in a "we tell eachother everything" sort of relationship. There are things that one should keep to themselves. However, honesty with your partner about matters of fidelity or infidelity is, in my opinion, non-negotiable. I'd never consider anything less for a second.

Now you might want an open relationship, which is valid if it's established.

I can't stand the idea. Some people get off on that. I get turned on by monogamy.

I also want to assure you that I have read ALL your posts (I just didn't read all the other posters).

Cool. Thanks. I appreciate that.

[sookie6]

Sorry in my mind 'to make out' meant to have sex with...my mistake...

you seem to have high standards in a relationship. And you will find somone who deserves you. I just don't think it's this woman.

Good luck
x

[SirWagginston]

I think that by trying to hard to make things work with this girl, you are doing an injustice to all the girls who deserve you more--especially the ones that have already offered you something better.

[VincenzoG91]

She seems to be operating on a childish level of morality... her actions are only "bad" if they are discovered. Therapy isn't going to teach her the difference between right and wrong.

[Incognito]

First off, let me say that since her betrayal on sunday we've been having some of the best sex we've ever had, have been talking more honestly than we have in months, and have both pretty much been on the same page about fighting this out.

The sex is just a proverbial "carrot at the end of the rope". She is only doing this as a way to keep you around, and it seems to be working. Thinking only with your little head will only end in disaster.

Through all of this I have consoled myself with her honesty. On sunday she came home immediately and told me everything that had happened. I had this to rely on. When I've thought of how screwed up things have gotten, I've thought of this. On that level, I trusted her: She could betray me, but not lie to me. This was good, no?........ Well, early this morning I got a surprise!.......She told me that she had lied to me on Wednesday. That this guy WAS a long-term member of the theater company......

First, no, it is not good that she'd betray you but not lie to you. It is only slightly less worse than trying to cover it up. It shouldn't have happened in the first place. Second, you were SO certain of her honesty up until this point. If this isn't your sign to get the hell out of there you might as well tell her to sleep with the guy, but to make sure you don't hear about it next time.

She didn't agree immediately. She hemmed and hawed over my ultimatum for over and HOUR! She said that intellectually what I asked made perfect sense, but that a part of her was furious at me for presuming to tell her who she can and can not be friends with. After all, it should be up to her, right? She kept asking "is this forever or just for now? Do you think that there might be a time in the future when you'd be okay with us being friends?"

She is trying to set this up to be with him in the future. Don't look at it any other way. You don't fight that hard to be friends with someone who you just betrayed your boyfried's trust with. If you'd have said that they could be friends on any level she'd have the perfect set up. Since they work together I don't see how them not being official friends changes anything.

Later she took a different approach, saying that she'd be able to understand my feelings if she had been SOBER when she'd made out with him, or if she'd slept with him, but because it had been drunken that I should somehow be more lenient. She said that she thinks this could lead to her resenting me.

She really does have sociopathic tendencies, I hope you see this now. She is trying to make you feel guilty while threatening to resent you. Please leave her before she improves her tactics and fools you into believing that there is still a relationship worth saving.

Then my girlfriend said the freakiest thing of the day. She said, "You know, all this just makes me haunted by the notion that it might have been less harmful in the end for me to never have told you about this. I could have dealt with it on my own, known it was a drunken mistake, known it wasn't going to happen again, and could have just kept you out of the loop. Then you wouldn't have been upset and our relationship would have continued on as normal. What good has come out of me telling you about ANY of this?"

Continued as normal? There was nothing normal about sexually starving your significant other. She's only has regrets because you aren't just rolling over. Not good, not good. She's basically telling you to your face that she won't be honest with you again because you're holding her feet to the fire. Get out man, get out!

She said, later, that she thought I was reasonable about her friendship with him, and that she didn't know why she had fought so hard against it. She said that the thing about "better to not tell" was just a knee jerk reaction, a momentary thought, and that she'd wanted to express it to me in order to be "honest" with me about her feelings.

--BULL SHIT, she said exactly what she meant. She just came back and tried to cleam it up after the fact. Perhaps she realized that them not being official friends isn't that important since she works with the guy and will see him often anyway. The "friends" deal would have been the perfect excuse to not explain why she was going somewhere with him, or talking to him on the phone. She doesn't have that luxury now, but she still has work. She realizes that you can't expect her to avoid him there and you have no way of finding out exactly what she does there.

So, in the end, she says she'll do as I ask, but after all of that discussion it almost feels like too little too late. And I suspect that she WILL resent me for it, which is CRAP.

Who cares if she WILL resent you, I'm sure that she does already because you spoiled her perfect plan of having this guy as a "friend" so that she could do anything and everything with him while justifying their time spent together as "being friends". I'm sorry but you REALLY need to wake up and smell the coffee! I understand you being a man of your word because I am too. However there comes a point when following that ideal simply to say "that you are always a man of your word" becomes foolish. You have reached that point my friend. The only outcome besides leaving that could happen is her finding a way to pull the wool over your eyes enough for you to stay. I'd hate for that to happen to you, especially since there are other more worthy women available.

[Saffron]

I hate to sound harsh but...Dear lord, this is getting silly now. She is not the woman you loved anymore - she has made a fool of you, cheated on you, put up needless physical and emotional barriers to hurt you and blame you for her own inadequacies...what more is there to say? Where can you go from here? So what...it takes month's of no sex, restriction on how you're allowed to talk to or touch her, and her standing you up,therapy and CHEATING on you to make her talk to you 'honestly', and then when she does she says she wishes she hadn't bothered cus, effectively, you were pissed off and she could have saved herself the trouble of apologising had she not bothered!! Leave her. Read all this post again as if your contributions were that of a stranger and think - if i were to read what this woman was doing to some bloke i didn't know - what would i think? what would i say to him - and if you're honest i think you'll realise you'd tell him to get the hell out. why are you still clinging to this? I realise you love her but she is treating you like a total fool. stop rolling over and taking it - you need to realise that there ARE other women in the world who will make you happy - which you deserve to be. I'm sure you will pick apart this post and say things about time frames and conversations you've had that were great and how you've had a great past together but the past is the past and honestly, if this 7 or 8 sentences isn't, in a very generalized nutshell, pretty much what it all boils down to - you wouldn't be posting on here. .. you know shes cheated after standing you up, you know she lies (or will do), you know she is happy to blame you for most of this. WALK AWAY!!! x

[vashti]

I hate to sound harsh but...Dear lord, this is getting silly now.

I thought I was the only one who lost patience (pages ago).

[Sonrisa]

me too Vash, i quit this thread a loooong time ago.

[ftm]

The sex is just a proverbial "carrot at the end of the rope". She is only doing this as a way to keep you around, and it seems to be working. Thinking only with your little head will only end in disaster.

Well, I agree. Particularly if our sex life doesn't change in the long run, but only heats up for a few weeks and then vanishes again.

Moreover, she seems far more ready to move on past what has happened than I am. ,Sometime, if we talk about it, she says, "You are still upset about this?" Other times, she grovels unexpectedly.

First, no, it is not good that she'd betray you but not lie to you. It is only slightly less worse than trying to cover it up. It shouldn't have happened in the first place. Second, you were SO certain of her honesty up until this point. If this isn't your sign to get the hell out of there you might as well tell her to sleep with the guy, but to make sure you don't hear about it next time.

No, I didn't mean that honesty rendered the betrayal less severe. It's still a betrayal. I just meant the honesty was one good thing I was holding on to (and was something she brought up in her defense). Now that the noesty isn'tt there, she defends herself with "I was drunk," which is the dumbest defense in the world. I have always trusted her to go out to bars by herself. It was her job to maintain that trust, not MINE.

Who cares if she WILL resent you, I'm sure that she does already because you spoiled her perfect plan of having this guy as a "friend" so that she could do anything and everything with him while justifying their time spent together as "being friends". I'm sorry but you REALLY need to wake up and smell the coffee! I understand you being a man of your word because I am too. However there comes a point when following that ideal simply to say "that you are always a man of your word" becomes foolish. You have reached that point my friend. The only outcome besides leaving that could happen is her finding a way to pull the wool over your eyes enough for you to stay. I'd hate for that to happen to you, especially since there are other more worthy women available.

She seems to have settled in to not being friends with him, but it''s hard to tell how much she simply says for my benefit. I'm a little appalled at how much I've had to be in the driver's seat about this. She should be the one scrambling for ways to earn my trust again. I should be the one submitting ideas to her and having her shoot them down.

I agree. I would hate to have that happen to me, too.

She and I don't talk about the future anymore. Things are on hold, practically. She talks about the fall and says "if we are still together." I'm going to go through the therapy. It's close.

In order for me to stay, one of the things she needs to convince me of is that her desire to be with me specifically supersedes her distaste for being alone. Sometimes it feels like the last year of our relationship was been one big separation anxiety panic attack. Secondly, she has to take the reins when it comes to doing her part in contributing to this relationship. I'm tired of asking for the things I need. I'm tired of her always treating it like new information. Number three, she has to take control of earning my trust back. I'm not going to hold her damned hand.

I hate to sound harsh but...Dear lord, this is getting silly now.

I thought I was the only one who lost patience (pages ago).

me too Vash, i quit this thread a loooong time ago.

I realize this is an exhausting thread. Maybe I'm just a slow learner. It may seem like I'm not taking any advice, but I am. For the time being, I'm going to leave this thread alone and stop posting about this issue. After therapy begins, there may be a new thread. Particularly if we split up. If we split up, I'm definitely going to post about it, only because I have no idea how to end a relationship like this properly. (We share many of the same friends, good friendships with eachother's families, etc etc etc.). But, for the time being, this thread is done. I don't want to take advantage if this community anymore if it seems like I'm just moving this around in circles. So, two week break, then I'll be back with this issue probably. (If she and I even last that long.)

In the meantime, I'll post on other threads and try to return the favors that this community have afforded me.

Thanks guys.

[anonymous_girl]

I became distant from her. I had a serious of issues with myself (depression, low self esteem, you name it) and I didn't open up to her. She tried the hardest she could to keep things together and fight for us because that's how she was raised and how she believed love to be. I would always just throw some excuses at her (work is hard, long, difficult, boring) just to get her off my back. She made suggestions on how to make things work, just like you were, although giving me some space wasn't one of them (she was very dependent). I think that was what I needed though if I didn't communicate to her, how would she know? It's like you need to be out of the picture for them to appreciate you and want you back in it because they are so used to what you provide and take it for granted. It is also the sign of an immature relationship. If you work so hard towards something and they just don't care or give back the same effort, what are you working towards? It's a two person job and if you cannot possibly pick up the slack on her end. It's sinking and she's okay with it because you are keeping the boat afloat with everything you have.

Well stated. I find a lot of these characteristics within myself, and reading this post has given me a little bit of a boost in wanting to put a stop to repetitive/habitual behaviors as well as taking certain things for granted. I've been in denial about a lot of shit I need to work on within myself (self-esteem, confidence, etc.) and have caught myself projecting some of it on my boyfriend. Most of the time I don't realize I do it until afterwards, but even then, I'm so embarrassed about it that I don't want to admit it. My boyfriend does similar things too. He is very stubborn and is not as supportive as I wish he could be. He ends up projecting things onto me and also doesn't like to admit it when he's done something wrong/hurtful. So we have a pretty bad cycle going on right now. If only my boyfriend could read this, we might be able to become more self-aware about our own problems and work together in a healthy way. Thanks again for the post! I'm going to pass it along to my boyfriend and see what he has to say about it :o)

[Gigabitch]

I was hoping ftm came back to tell us how it went. He's probably busy moving.

[90sMusicKid]

The key issue here is that it's an emotional need for me to be able to show physical affection for the person I love,


. Women I work with. I, a *staunch* monogamist, often fantasize about looking outside of my relationship for sex. It kills me.

.

Just a note, these two statements MAJORLY contradict each other.

If you're looking outside your relationship for sex, then its a possibility you're just attempting to please yourself. Not trying to judge you, but its important to know what you want vs what you think you want.

[ftm]

I was hoping ftm came back to tell us how it went. He's probably busy moving.

Here I am. I had to take a break because I started to feel like this place was messing with my head a little bit, that coming here was making me focus on my problems more than I was comfortable with. We were starting therapy, so I wanted to focus entirely on that, on making things better.

We've been to two sessions together. We've had some amazing times together. We made it to our two-year anniversary, went out to an amazing and rather extravagant dinner which was one of the most memorable of my life.

But things are not better. Well, let me correct that: They have improved somewhat, but they aren't where I need them to be.

This girl has voluntary amnesia. If I act like things are normal between us, she proceeds to believe that everything in our relationship is fine and that we are in a healthy place. Then if I try to talk about something, she behaves as if she's being blind-sided, surprised that there was any issue at all. We have made some headway in therapy, but she still seems principally concerned with how she is feeling, how comfortable she is, and so on and so on. Sometimes it seems like it's going to clear up, and other times it seems hopeless.

In therapy we are still sort of giving the therapist our backgrounds and we haven't gotten down to really working on anything. I'm still planning to give us the summer to work things out. But if things haven't really changed by then I am absolutely history. I am not cut out for a sexless (or low-sex) relationship. It's not what I want. She's made it clear to me that she has some personal issues keeping her from offering me what I see as a fulfilling relationship. Maybe she needs to be alone to focus on those issues. I don't know.

[ftm]

Just a note, these two statements MAJORLY contradict each other.

If you're looking outside your relationship for sex, then its a possibility you're just attempting to please yourself. Not trying to judge you, but its important to know what you want vs what you think you want.

They don't contradict one another.

Sex with someone I don't love would not fulfill me, but during the act at least I would feel good. And I wouldn't be looking for just sex with nothing else. When I fantasize about looking outside of my relationship, it always turn into me fantasizing about *another* relationship. Then I usually start to see how impractical I am being. I never go through with anything. I have never pursued anyone. It's a thought, nothing more. A reaction to the feeling that it would be easier to go out and find a fulfilling sexual relationship than it would be for me to find one at home.