Dating a Man With Kids and Ugly "Goodbyes"

[hoppy1214]

Hi,

I'm hoping to get some insight on a new situation for me. I met a man about 6 months ago that I have a ridiculous amount of interests in common with. We share the same hobbies, have a similar intelligence level, a shared sense of humor, and a general ease of conversation. We met through a peer group, and after a few group interactions, began hanging out solo. Neither of us was initially interested in the other but as we spent a growing amount of time together we started to fall for each other.

Herein lies the problem, he is about 10 yrs older than me and has 2 teenage daughters. Kids and such an extensive age gap have always been deal breakers for me. Likewise, I am an avid dog person and have a pooch I love to death-- he doesn't much like dogs. Despite these previous "deal breakers," we found ourselves in a relationship.

We've been together about 5 months now and his kids in particular are starting to concern me. The latest scenario was presented today. He stopped by my work to say hi. While he was here, he brought up my taking his girls shopping last Saturday. He told me they were under the impression I don't like them because I was hurrying them and I didn't say goodbye when dropping them off. Likewise, I took him, his daughters, and his mother to the airport a little while ago. Apparently, I also hurt his mother's feelings because I didn't say goodbye to her.

I listened to his concerns but frankly, was a little caught off-guard and kind of upset (both for the lashing of my character and also that he thought my workplace was an appropriate setting for this discussion). I told him I needed to get back to work and I'd talk to him later. After he left, I sent him an email letting him know the aforementioned and asked him to give me a few days to clear my head.

So now I'm trying to reach some reasonable conclusions about the situation and our relationship in general. From my perspective, I went out of my way in both scenarios and am now having it thrown in my face. He didn't have time to take his daughters shopping, I was nice enough to volunteer to take them for one hour (one hour being the key here, b/c I had previous plans to go snowboarding). I wasn't asked to do this and in fact volunteered b/c I thought it would be nice for everyone involved. His one daughter spent 30 minutes looking for a debit card, neither were speedy in any way while shopping, and his other daughter lost her cell phone which we cost another 20-30 minutes. Suffice to say, I didn't get to go snowboarding.

I took him and his family to the airport at about 5am. This was a favor I was asked to do and obliged. Additionally, I'd been up until the wee hours of the morning finishing a homemade calendar for him to give to his mother for her birthday. I arrived at his house at the agreed upon time and they were nowhere near being ready. I had to wait 30 minutes for them to finish packing and eating breakfast. I dropped them off at the airport and jumped out to help with baggage and hug my significant other. His mom and his daughters were otherwise engaged so I jumped back into my car and took off-- both b/c loitering at the airport is no longer allowed and also in the hopes of missing morning rush hour.

I consider saying goodbye a nicety, not a necessity. When my roommate and I have been talking together in the front room and I leave, I tell her goodbye. When she is in her room and we haven't been otherwise engaged, I don't feel the need to say bye. Likewise, when I'm in a hurry I often don't even think to say goodbye. My entire family is like this and so are many of my friends and frankly this has never been a problem nor something I've before ever thought about. It's not that I'm unwilling to spend more energy on saying goodbye if it really means that much to him. It's more that I think he's making a big deal out of something that isn't. And I also think he's dealing with the situation in a poor manner.

More than that is the problem of talking with him about his kids. He babies his children and firmly believes in sheltering them from being adults sooner than necessary. That's all fine and dandy in theory but in reality, I think it's made his kids a little bratty and ungrateful. I think they've learned in particular that dad's girlfriends are great targets for taking advantage of, since I'm sure most women involved with him want his kids to like them and go out of their way to achieve this. He is adamant that his children won't be spoiled with money but has managed to spoil them in other ways. There is no possible way I can conceive of that I might bring this up with him. It's something that I either have to accept or not accept... But I feel like this a huge part of the issue and also might pose further problems down the road. His daughters are too old to need a "mother figure" anymore and frankly, only being in my mid 20s, I'm too young to act as such (or to want to act as such). This leaves me in murky waters both now, and in the future.

I'm sorry this has been so long but I like to be thorough. I really appreciate any feedback and advice, both on my relationship in general and the "goodbye" problem in particular.

[Jas_mine]

It does appear as if they are beginning to take advantage of you, it definitely comes across as highly ungrateful of them as well. Did they thank you? Did they show that they appreciated your favours in any shape or form?

You can explain your turn of events to him but if it falls on deaf ears then you may need to reconsider your relationship - you can't be involved with somebody whose relations will continuously paint you as the 'bad guy' and you sure as hell cannot be involved with somebody who will always take their side no matter what. It's natural that his relatives are going to be wary and dubious of the new girlfriend but he needs to have a word with them, he needs to tell them to give you a break. That or just refuse to do any favours point blank until they are more accepting of you.

[starbuck]

I'm curious as to why you set aside your previous "deal-breakers" for this man. If kids and an age gap were things you specifically knew would complicate things for you, why did you compromise?

[Jas_mine]

Because love is a funny ol' thing!

[starbuck]

Because love is a funny ol' thing!

You sound very young and naive, Jasmine

These people have two completely different sets of priorities. I think she's in over her head right now, and shouldn't be dating a man with kids. A relationship like this is going to take much more time, energy, and maturity than she can give. Re-read the part about the shopping trip where she seemed more concerned with going snowboarding than spending time with his daughters. I'm not negatively judging her, but with such mismatched priorities, I just don't see it working out.

I'd like to see Vash or Queen of Corona weigh in on this thread.

[Jas_mine]

No, I believe you are being rather black and white about the whole thing actually, very unrealistic - dealbreakers are not set in stone.

And very harsh too, she originally had plans to go snowboarding and dedicated an hour to take them shopping because HE did not have time to do so himself. If anything this was selfless on her part. They are not her children, they have only been dating for five months, there are no obligations for her to step into a motherly role just yet - she does not have to sacrifice her interests in order to please him - she found a balance by trying to incorporate the both but was massively incriminated rather than thanked.

[sookie6]

Hi,


I consider saying goodbye a nicety, not a necessity.

I read your story with interest, sympathetic of your feelings until I read this??????!!!!

Saying good bye even quickly waving with a smile is a necessity....it's expected, it's politeness, consideration....especially to someone older than you...


Manners manners!!!

[starbuck]

No, I believe you are being rather black and white about the whole thing actually, very unrealistic - dealbreakers are not set in stone.

And very harsh too, she originally had plans to go snowboarding and dedicated an hour to take them shopping because HE did not have time to do so himself. If anything this was selfless on her part. They are not her children, they have only been dating for five months, there are no obligations for her to step into a motherly role just yet - she does not have to sacrifice her interests in order to please him - she found a balance by trying to incorporate the both but was massively incriminated rather than thanked.

How is my opinion unrealistic? The OP deserves some credit for having the self awareness it takes to know that dating a man with kids would be problematic for her. However, she chose to disregard her need to have an uncomplicated relationship and is now faced with problems. This is exactly why people end up in relationships that aren't right for them. They don't listen to their instincts.

She does not sound willing to give his kids the same importance that he gives them. This is the wrong attitude to have when dating a person with children. His kids are #1 in his life and he has any reason to believe that she isn't going to be a positive influence in their lives, well of course his hackles are going to go up.

When she took them shopping they quickly became a nuisance to her. They probably picked up on this and sensed her resentment. What could be just normal teenage behavior she sees as bratty and spoiled. How would she know the difference, anyway? She has no experience with teenagers.

OP, there are many childless men out there to date who won't make things so complicated for you. My suggestion is to consider whether or not you'd like to go back to your original instinct that dating a man with kids is a dealbreaker for you.

[hoppy1214]

she originally had plans to go snowboarding and dedicated an hour to take them shopping because HE did not have time to do so himself. If anything this was selfless on her part. They are not her children, they have only been dating for five months, there are no obligations for her to step into a motherly role just yet - she does not have to sacrifice her interests in order to please him - she found a balance by trying to incorporate the both but was massively incriminated rather than thanked.

This is very much my perspective on the matter. If I had asked his daughters to go shopping for the day or simply intended to spend a lot of time with them to bond, I wouldn't have hurried. I have spent plenty of time with just his daughters and with him and his daughters to get to know all of them better. This particular day was not "bonding day," it was "I'm doing everyone here a favor day."

Saying good bye even quickly waving with a smile is a necessity....it's expected, it's politeness, consideration....especially to someone older than you...

Herein lies the problem. Both culture and circumstance cause a person to say goodbye in different matters. In both scenarios, the people I apparently slighted were not engaged with me in any way. They were talking amongst themselves and had exited my line of sight.

When I'm leaving a party, I would go out of my way to find and thank the hostess before exiting. I would say goodbye to anyone I physically encounter or whom I was involved in conversation with beforehand. But I probably wouldn't take the time to say goodbye to every person at the party. My partner seems to be the type of person who would. I can appreciate this quality in him. And I can appreciate him asking me to be more thorough with my goodbyes. What I can't appreciate is his pointing out my personal flaws in situations where I was acting altruistically. It's the difference between constructive criticism and plain old criticism. It was very hurtful.

The real problem is that to fully explain my perspective on this issue, I would have to explain my perspective on his daughters. I don't feel comfortable doing this firstly, because we have only been together 5 months and, secondly, because I don't have any children of my own and thus lack his real parenting experience.

Furthermore, the whole experience has made me a little gun shy. I went out of my way in both scenarios and was punished. Surely that will make me hesitant to do favors or nice things in the future. Which is not what I want. I love spoiling people I care about. I like to do nice things for those I love-- both little tokens of appreciation and also grander gestures to make them feel special.

All in all, the goodbye wasn't really the issue for me. It's not something that has ever been brought to my attention and thus not something I ever gave much consideration. I have no problem making a greater effort to verbally say goodbye to people, if that is a habit he'd like me to acquire. The real problem is that I feel taken for granted and I don't know how to talk to him about such a sensitive matter, what possible solutions I can offer (I hate having discussions like this without having brainstormed some good solutions first), and how to prevent it from reoccurring.

[IndiReloaded]

Jas and Starbie both make very good points. I took Jas's love comment as being tongue in cheek.

Anyway, you sound very together and, despite your age difference, I would say you sound like the more mature partner. His teenage girls behaviour sounds like typical teenager behaviour, so I don't really fault them. But their father should know better. And his mother?? LOL, the whole lot of them sound to me like they've never experienced interaction with a together, busy person and expect to have their drama catered to at a level that you will find unreasonable.

I think his comments to you without acknowledging your efforts is a red flag. He's divorced, right? There's probably a reason for it, and I bet you are seeing some of the very traits that caused their split.

As for dealbreakers, there are always exceptions, but I don't think this man warrants you making one, based on your posts. I think you are better off dating someone with less baggage or at least a better attitude about it.

Good luck.

[vashti]

Who taught you it is EVER appropriate to not say goodbye? I am horrified by your bad manners.

Listen, your heart may have been in the right place when you offered to take these girls shopping, but you were entirely unrealistic about the whole thing. Who could ever expect teenagers to do ANYTHING in an hour? You couldn't get me in and out of a store in an hour, either.

I don't think you are old enough to deal with this responsibility. You are supposed to be out snowboarding with friends and acting like a carefree young adult - not playing mama to someone else's kids. Idon't really think ANYONE without kids can possibly understand how to relate to someone else's children, especially when they are teenagers. these girls sound NORMAL. Wait until you have some of your own child raising experience before dealing with someone else's. It's 1000x harder when they aren't yours.

[IndiReloaded]

Both culture and circumstance cause a person to say goodbye in different matters. In both scenarios, the people I apparently slighted were not engaged with me in any way. They were talking amongst themselves and had exited my line of sight.

When I'm leaving a party, I would go out of my way to find and thank the hostess before exiting. I would say goodbye to anyone I physically encounter or whom I was involved in conversation with beforehand. But I probably wouldn't take the time to say goodbye to every person at the party. My partner seems to be the type of person who would. I can appreciate this quality in him. And I can appreciate him asking me to be more thorough with my goodbyes. What I can't appreciate is his pointing out my personal flaws in situations where I was acting altruistically. It's the difference between constructive criticism and plain old criticism. It was very hurtful.

The real problem is that to fully explain my perspective on this issue, I would have to explain my perspective on his daughters. I don't feel comfortable doing this firstly, because we have only been together 5 months and, secondly, because I don't have any children of my own and thus lack his real parenting experience.

Furthermore, the whole experience has made me a little gun shy. I went out of my way in both scenarios and was punished. Surely that will make me hesitant to do favors or nice things in the future. Which is not what I want. I love spoiling people I care about. I like to do nice things for those I love-- both little tokens of appreciation and also grander gestures to make them feel special.

All in all, the goodbye wasn't really the issue for me. It's not something that has ever been brought to my attention and thus not something I ever gave much consideration. I have no problem making a greater effort to verbally say goodbye to people, if that is a habit he'd like me to acquire. The real problem is that I feel taken for granted and I don't know how to talk to him about such a sensitive matter, what possible solutions I can offer (I hate having discussions like this without having brainstormed some good solutions first), and how to prevent it from reoccurring.

Wow, I think some posters have missed this post. As I said before you sound completely reasonable to me.

Given you have only been dating this man 5 months, I think you have gone above and beyond for interacting with his kids AND mother. In fact, I'm surprised how integrated you are already with his family given the relatively short time you have been dating. Many parents would be much more cautious involving a partner so soon, which again makes me question his maturity.

FWIW, I do agree you might be better off with someone else but not due to any lack on your part. I don't think his family would be able to appreciate someone of your maturity and frankly, your traits would be wasted in such a drama-filled environment. You don't sound to me like you have too many problems of your own, so don't inherit someone else's by choice. Spend the rest of your 20s in selfish enjoyment and career development. Find a single, like-minded man and then grow into the family stage together once you have exhausted this stage of your life.

[vashti]

I didn't miss that point, if your comment was directed at me, indi. I didn't find it as compelling as you did.

[IndiReloaded]

Not really, but since you bring it up I suggest your family background is quite different from mine, Vash. I didn't grow up in a chaotic environment or experience a blended family. I'm guessing (and it is only a guess) that I relate to this person's mindset more than you do. Now, it could be the OP is trying to sound more mature than she actually is, but I doubt it, she's too consistent. There's a common language that is difficult for those who are used to more drama to understand. Using words like "horrified" is clear hyperbole and suggests you aren't being objective about this poster. Anyway, same mountain, different path since our conclusion is the same: its not the teenagers fault and they are probably not compatible. We simply disagree about the reasons.

[vashti]

Yeah, maybe I'm not being objective because I have all kinds of experience with step family arrangements that you lack. And yes, I tend to favor the children every time. Whatever...

And yeah, I AM still horrified that she would leave without saying goodbye to a couple of kids and the mother of a man she supposedly is crazy about. It's very unusual behavior, to say the least.