Need insight into commitment-phobe guys (long post)

[Dankarella]

So even though I "know" guys (grew up w/3 brothers) and get along with guys better than I get along with girls, they are still confusing to me. Especially the commitment-phobe ones. I just don't understand how their actions will scream "yes, I'm in a relationship" but they won't talk about it, and will even go so far as to deny it. I don't get those guys.

So I started a new job this past December right before Christmas. When I first met Matt my first day of work, I instantly liked him and had a "feeling" that we would end up together. I had been included amongst his group of friends since early January, hanging out with him and our co-workers just about every weekend, usually both Friday and Saturday nights. He always initiated me hanging out with them.

He even asked me to come with him on a ghost tour of Chicago which just happened to be on Valentine's Day. The plan included a handful of our friends and co-workers, but everyone eventually backed out, so it was going to be the two of us. Well not enough people signed up for the tour so they canceled it, so him and I just went to a reptile convention in town instead. He invited a few more friends to come with to that, but they all back out so it was just us two together. So we went on a Valentine's date by default... After we got done in the early afternoon, he made a comment about a couple movies he was going to watch afterwards, but never asked me to join him, so I left it at that.

We have a LOT in common. And I mean a LOT. Like from the way we dress, to how we look, to the type of glasses we wear. We have the exact same sense of humor, taste in music, books, movies, shows. We're both Cancers and have the same personality quirks. We're both really into conspiracies and paranormal stuff. We both speak German. We were in the same clubs and organizations while in school, but since I'm 4 years older than him, we completely missed each other back then. He was also pretty good friends with one of my little brothers in grade school.

So anyway, I could tell that he liked me but I got a lot of mixed messages from him. One day he would seem really into me, and the next he would be talking to his best friend in front of me about some girl he was casually seeing, usually a complaint. This went on for a few months until mid March, him and I were casually texting more often and flirting a little bit over text, and he was saying how we should do some things together. Finally the first weekend of April he makes a move and suggest we should watch a movie together at my place. Well, watching a movie at 11pm turns into passionate make-out session well into the wee hours of the morning. He came over again the next night, and before he came over he had told me that I shouldn't expect "coupledom, marriage and the whole shebang" and I was cool with that. I knew he was very independent, a busy guy and seemed like the type to keep his options open, or at least leave himself an "out." I didn't care, I just really really liked him and really wanted to get closer to him. And besides, I knew once he really got to know me, he would think I was just the coolest chick in the world, and that he would eventually change his mind

And I think things are going very well so far... Pretty much ever since we passionately made-out that first weekend of April, we've been gradually getting closer and closer. We've texted each other every single night since then, to the point where we're both in bed under the covers almost falling asleep while still texting each other. We constant flirt over text too. But no talking on the phone though, we actually talk to each other a LOT at work or while hanging out. He's called me a few times to finalize plans for the evening when we go out with friends, but that's about it.

We hang out with each other both Friday and Saturday nights most of the time. Usually with his best friend or our co-workers, but I always see him on the weekends none-the-less. And if his best friend is out on a date with his new girl, Matt will come over and hang out with me. If he has other plans, I don't care, I have other things I can do too.

We work with each other twice a week so we see each other then. Plus he also comes over to my place 1-3 weeknights to watch movies and other "stuff" depending on how busy we are. Now, I'm afraid I might just be a "movie friend" or a friends with benefits type thing, but I don't really know.

We've never been on any dates together, except for the "default" Valentine's Day date, when things were still brewing. Last month we did go to a bunch of thrift stores one afternoon and had a bunch of fun together. That was after we had been "sort of" together for a few short weeks. Someone I knew had asked him if he was my boyfriend and he said something along the lines of "Well, I'm sure she would LIKE me to be, but...etc." I think I subconsciously blocked out his response at that point because I didn't like what I was hearing, lol. But lately he has been talking about doing some more things together instead of just watching movies, but we're both just so busy most of the time. The only real time we have is later at night and we're both night owls anyway. We are going to a roller derby match this Saturday, probably just the two of us since no one else has showed any interest. And I had been slightly hinting at doing more than just movie nights, and I think he's been getting the hint...

One thing I do want to point out is that I have made sure not to initiate a lot of this. I make it clear that I really like him and flirt with him, but I don't text him first, or don't ask him to hang out first. I let him do that 75% of the time. I don't want to seem too needy and figure if I pull back a bit, he'll feel free enough to come back for more. And so far it's been working out well. Plus I don't mind taking it super-slow. The last relationship I was in, we jumped right in and took things VERY fast. That one started with a bang and ended with a bang, numerous bangs, lol. So I like that this one has started out as a friendship first and is slowly progressing towards more...

So, being the over-analyzing girl that I am, I am probably thinking too hard into some of the things he has been saying and texting me recently. I mean, I think I have good reason to think that things may be going well, and that maybe he's been thinking about getting more serious? I dunno, that would be nice though. He had made a text comment a few days ago about being "regular soul-mates," and it's funny because I had thought that too. I even read it in an astrology book, our birthdays were each other's soul-mate matches. Anyways, he's also been making a lot of comments lately about family members of his having things in common with me, and how certain family members would probably like me. So I can tell those gears are turning for him. I haven't been over to his house yet, but he said that I will eventually come over there soon, and most likely meet his parents too. Friends with benefits don't usually do this, do they?

And he has been using the words "Us, we & our" a lot lately, and usually referring to the future. He's been talking about all sorts of movies and shows we gotta watch together too. I told him that it would take forever to watch all of this stuff at the rate we've been going and suggested a marathon movie day, and he really liked that idea. He's also a jokester and makes silly comments about us starting a Mates of State tribute band together, or us getting our own reality TV show together and doing it way better than the people we're watching. He really wants me to make him my infamous chicken noodler soup, and knows I probably won't get a chance to make it anytime soon, but says "someday, someday." Oh yeah, he has also commented to me a few times about how he's amazed that I haven't gotten sick of him and his crazy antics yet, lol. I really LIKE that part of him!

Matt's best friend Luke is all worried about the girl he's been seeing for the past few weeks. They've only had like 4 dates and already he's having the "What are we" conversation with her. I'm almost afraid to bring that up with Matt because I don't want to scare him away. Plus I feel like I'm holding back so much too.... I hate not knowing where exactly I stand. Anyone have any insight into this?

EDIT: I thought my post was pretty clear, but I need to clear up a few things. About the other girl, he was only casually seeing her BEFORE him and I started seeing each other. He was only going on a date here and there with her while him and I were still in friend mode. He stopped all contact with her and lost interest in her as soon as he started seeing me.

And it's his best friend bringing up the "What are we" talk to the girl he's been dating. Apparently the girl he's been seeing doesn't seem too interested in him, and HE's the one asking her where they stand...

[cmacattack1]

I just know from my personal experiences and the experiences that I have read with others that while he may say these things like "us, we and ours" and talk about the future, it doesn't mean a single thing that what you are heading towards is an official relationship. One day, he could meet some wonderful girl that completely knocks him out and that his behavior toward you could suddenly change 180 degrees. This is the part where you get hurt, and you THEN ask him "I thought we were moving towards something together?" Then the dagger in your heart response of "I never said anything about us being official together". Sorry if I'm describing a worst case scenario, I just don't know if I like his approach and behavior to this situation.

Talking about other girls in front of you and then dodging the question of "Is she your girlfriend?" just seems wrong to me. My freshman year of college, I dated a girl off and on for a long time. She was head over heels for me and we started hooking up being next door neighbors, going to parties, etc. etc. We had some classes together and I remember one time we were at a friend's house studying, and the other friend asked us "Are you guys dating?" flat out. I was completely taken aback by the boldness and didn't have a response ready and was enjoying the current arrangement, not really officially dating and all that. I just quickly blurted out "We are just really good friends." You can't imagine how much that hurt her. We still continued to date(ish) and she felt powerless in her feelings for me so she put up with this kind of behavior for a long time. The more I got used to her being there with my bullshit, the more comfortable I got. Keep in mind that response to our friend was after a good semester and a half of hooking up and it was pretty obvious she wanted more. Eventually I did make it official through her nagging moreso then anything else but not much changed and my treatment of her continued to be substandard. I just don't want this to happen to you.

So his best friend went on a date with a girl and she wondered after 4 dates where this was going. It's bold, to the point, takes a bit of the mysterious "whats going to happen next" fun out of it, but in this girl's defense, she knows what she wants. Time is too short to waste and she wants a relationship, that is pretty obvious. I'm not saying she is going about it the right way, it could very well scare many guys away putting alot of pressure early on, but through this she can weed out the guys that aren't serious. There is a very fine line with being too relaxed and too overanxious for a relationship. I just feel like if a guy liked you, and it's pretty obvious that you like him, he'd be proud to be with you, talk about you, and would take more initiative. Even moreso then just you letting him do the statistical 75% of the pursuing. It's not like you are making it very hard for him, I don't think you have ever really said no to him yet have you? Don't let this lure you into a false sense of security thinking that he really has serious feelings for you.

You might be scared of being honest but if you are holding yourself back just to impress this guy, where are you really going? I understand that maybe you are a bit hesitant since your last relationship but if you want to be in a relationship with him, you are going to bring it up sooner or later. If you just let him do whatever he wants with you, it might not be exactly what you want in the long run and all this time you will be building more and more of an attachment. You may be in love with the idea of him since you have so much in common, but no matter how good it looks on paper, it doesn't always translate that well into a relationship. He could have some serious issues that will come out as soon as he lets his guard down, which won't happen totally until you guys are officially together and get nice and comfortable. Eventually you are going to have to decide if this guy fits your best interests and gives you the treatment you think you deserve. Because if he doesn't, there will be others, and those opportunities are passing you every day unnoticed as you have your focus on him.

I'm not saying he is a totally bad guy, don't get me wrong. I just recognize alot of my immature behavior in him, and the truth of the matter was I was very oblivious to it at the time. He could be the same way. "You haven't mentioned anything, so you must be okay with the current situation" could be the message you are sending right now. Just some things to think about. You don't need to take immediate action, but if things don't progress as time continues and you feel more anxious to try and snare him, it could build up alot of tension and it could come out the wrong way. Don't become satisfied with what you are getting if you want more. And if he is keeping his options open, so should you. Nothing like a little pressure to help your situation out right? I just don't think he has the right mentality going into your current arrangement. He wasn't looking for a serious thing coming in and it rarely happens that people change their mind. I went into it not seroius with my ex and told her flat out, and she hoped I would change her mind. Eventually I did but we ended disasterously because of my poor treatment of her after I got really comfortable and my issues that weren't settled before I went looking.

Love is a great, powerful feeling, but it does not conquer all and don't assume it will magically turn him into your Prince Charming to pick you up on your white horse and carry you away into the sunset telling you how much he loves you and wants to be with you forever. Too many times have we even been in serious relationships saying the things he says to you, but yet feelings change, things change, and we don't mean them anymore. Yet we can't take back what we said. I hope this gives you a more rational perspective and helps you sort out what you want and how you feel. Good luck with everything.

[lastwish]

Don't fall into the trap of analysing this too much. You would only fall into obsession. The situation is actually very simple. He likes the other girl more than you. He wants to date that girl, not you. He wants that girl to be his girlfriend, not you. He is only using you for physical satisfaction and for attention.

[Dankarella]

I thought my post was pretty clear, but I need to clear up a few things. About the other girl, Matt was only casually seeing her BEFORE him and I started seeing each other. He was only going on a date here and there with her while we were still in friend mode. He stopped all contact with her and lost interest in her as soon as he started seeing me.

And it's his best friend bringing up the "What are we" talk to the girl he's been dating. Apparently the girl he's been seeing doesn't seem too interested in him, and HE's the one asking her where they stand...

Hah, both replies have been about these two things which were misunderstood in the first place...

I have made a few little comments to him hinting that I would like more than our current situation. Like I said, I don't want to scare him off just yet. I know how guys can get... Plus he KNOWS that I am the type who commits, he knows I was with my last boyfriend for over 6 years. And a few months before we started seeing each other like we are now, he had asked me if I was the type to date around and have fun, or if I tend to get into serious relationships. I think he had been hesitant to start anything with me because he was afraid to enter into a serious relationship with me. And I can tell he's now at a point where he's comfortable right now and doesn't want to ruin what we have, especially since we were good friends to start. Sort of like playing Black Jack where you have 17 in your hand, but you are afraid to take another card or stay where you are at...

But what I wanna know is what are guys thinking when they're thinking of "soul-mates" and meeting his family?

Maybe I will initiate us going to dinner or something one of these weeks coming up and see if he wants to do that. But if by early-midsummer I don't see any progress towards us officially being a couple, then I might bring it up to him and see where we stand.

[lastwish]

Ohhh. Ok, sorry about misreading it. You can't really push guys to want to commit to you. Hold off the sex and the making out. That is for people who are boyfriend and girlfriends. The next time this guy try to make a move on you, tell him he can either make up his mind to be a couple or you guys are friends. I won't have high hope for this guy. He hasn't even took you out on an actual date and telling you he isn't sure about being a couple? Those are very solid signs he isn't into you. And don't believe in the whole commitment phobe crap. If you are hot stuff in his eyes, he would have already initiated exclusivity.

[cmacattack1]

Plus he KNOWS that I am the type who commits, he knows I was with my last boyfriend for over 6 years.


But what I wanna know is what are guys thinking when they're thinking of "soul-mates" and meeting his family?

Just because you made that clear doesn't necessarily mean he has TAKEN in that information. If he feels he can cut corners and get around some things and if you already bend over backwards for him, it doesn't mean he has taken what you said to heart. I've had my ex meet my family a few times and I still didn't see her any differently and still took advantage of her feelings for me. We all say things but our actions can tell a completely different story. I think you are eating up the things he says, but his actions don't point in the direction you want. You are going to do what you want to but I don't want to have to tell you I told you so. I really hope things work out for you, just based on what you said, I don't realistically see it working. You live, you learn and you miss 100 percent of the shots you don't try. Just tread carefully.

[Dankarella]

Well, we went to go see some Roller Derby this past weekend on Saturday. It was fun going out with Matt, and talking and joking the whole time like we usually do. Giving each other tickles in the rib every so often, Hah. He was talking about inviting me out with him to more things... Then afterwards I drove us back to my house so he could get his vehicle, then the plan was to go to our friend's house for a bonfire. Before he got out of my car he gave me a passionate kiss which was nice. Then we rode over to our friend's place in our own vehicles. It just seems so natural for us to be together, especially since all of our other friends each have a significant other. Especially his best friend Luke just met his new girl a month ago, so now he has a significant other too... Matt and I didn't eat dinner, so around 11pm we ask if anyone wants some food, and Matt and I leave in his car to go get some late night food. That evening was different because it was one of the first times him and I were arriving together and leaving together from hanging out with the rest of our friends.

Then the next day on Sunday, he invited me to go with him to a cemetery to visit a gravestone. (That's his thing, he researches historical people and places, and their gravesites, etc. He even puts flags on all civil war veterans graves each year for Memorial Day) I think he was impressed when I pointed out a symbol on a gravestone that he didn't know about. (And he knows a lot about that kind of stuff.) And I think he liked the fact that I enjoyed going to the cemetery and was interested in hearing some of the interesting facts... After that we got some dinner together at Noodles and Company. He dropped me off at my house and again we kiss in the car before I leave.

THEN...last night on Monday he comes over to my place to finish watching "1940s House" a tv show which we started the week prior. Afterwards we just goof around, make out, laugh, talk, lay there enjoying each others company listening to music till 2am. Then as he's getting ready to leave and we're listening to a few last songs, he makes a joke about how I was gonna get my cat to get him to marry me. (Yes he said that, he has a very strange sense of humor, I couldn't even begin to explain it, just know that it is very goofy and strange) Then he goes into a joke about how if we were husband and wife on one of those House shows, he would do awesome and I would probably flip out (because all the wives on those shows bitch and complain). And I jokingly say "no way, in fact I'd be in there being all smart and self-sufficient, I'd be improving on all those things in the house." Then the topic just moved to something else while he's putting on his shoes to go home. And of course we make out on my porch for a good 10 minutes while saying good-bye, lol.

I just don't know what to think, I mean, a guy wouldn't joke around about soul mates and marriage if he wasn't thinking about those possibilities in the first place, would he?