Feeling too threatened when flirting with girls.

[ThomYorke]

Everytime I find myself flirting with girls, I feel like I'm being tested. I HATE this feeling. The thing that bothers me the most in my life, are tests. I really can't STAND them.

Now, this constant feeling of being tested, and having this feeling of "You're being tested, do your best" is KILLING me.
Furthermore, I lack the ability of being the "Bad Guy". The sentence "Good Guys finish Last" couldn't be more true. When flirting with girls, while being the nice guy, I get the feeling that the girl is thinking to herself: "SHUT THE **** UP. I COULDN'T CARE LESS. B-O-R-I-N-G" and it's not that I talk nonsense or silly things.. really not. It's just, I'm usually talking about Logical things. Interesting things. Which, ofcourse, is a Hugh attraction killer. Women want men to reach their FEELINGS, not their LOGIC.

The last time I dated someone, my feelings turned out to be true. We had a good date.. I'd rate this date as Worth a 2nd date. Guess what? She didn't "FEEL" anything, so she said it "WON'T WORK". This girl dated me ONE time, and already decided she know me. I failed the test, even though we MIGHT be a great couple. Who knows?

I really think I could be an awesome partner. Really. My main weakness is getting INTO the relationship.

Recently I tried working on it, but when trying to talk about things that will give the girl a feeling of "wow.. I wanna know more about this guy." I'm actually not being myself, and act weird and VERY uncomfortable with myself. In that state my self confidence is halved.

I would be more than happy to get some suggestions of how I could change this situation. It feels just unfair that a guy like me, who's kind, smart, loving, emotional, good looking, friendly etc' couldn't attract girls because of bad flirting skills, while "inferior" or "same level as me" guys catch girls often.

Thanks in advance!

[rain.man]

Why are you talking to begin with? When flirting and on first dates, your only role is to direct the flow of the conversation. Ask a question and then shut up so she can talk. Then ask another related question. Repeat ad infinitum. If she wants to know something about you, she'll ask. If she doesn't ask, don't talk. If she does, give a short answer and counter with a related question. Keep the focus on her (the old rule of thumb is 80/20). Her getting to know you comes later.

Yes, this doesn't hold true for every woman, but a lot of them just want someone to shut up and let them talk. I like to make a game of seeing how little I can say while keeping her interested. Current record is 83 words in a 90 minute conversation while still getting from flirting to a first date. To top it off, that girl actually complimented me on being such a good talker, even though I barely said a word.

Alternately, you can take the opposite tack and talk about whatever the hell you want. But you've gotta have an "I don't care if you're interested" attitude. This is more of the "player" method. Works on some women, completely repulses others.

[ThomYorke]

First of all, thanks for your answer.. very informative.

Is this "Let her do the talk" method is effective in any case? Flirting with a girl in a bar, or on the work place or in the street is quite different situations that should be treated differently, no?

[rain.man]

Not that differently. She should be doing most of the talking no matter where you are. All you're trying to do early on is keep her talking.

One of the biggest complaints all women make is that guys don't listen to them. If you can let her talk...and talk...and talk...and talk you'll be in a good position to score yourself a date. It also gives you a way to judge her interest. The more interested she is in you, the more questions she'll be asking you. The one who talks 100% of the time and never asks you a question isn't gonna end in a date.

The trick is that you have to make every word count when you aren't saying much. No wasted words

[ThomYorke]

I see I see.. interesting.. should give it a shot sometime.
Till today, my epic fail method was to try to "impress" the girl with things like what I'm doing with myself in my life, show that I'm different from the usual men who hit on her, and so forth. In general, try to gain her attention by logical words.. sorta.

By the way, about 2 years ago, when I was at a certain social framework, meeting with the same people every day, girls found me very mysterious, because I wasn't talking much that time (had a rough time back then.. wasn't trying to talk much or impress girls..). One of the girls I used to date that time actually told me that I drove her craze, sometimes showing some interest, and sometimes like she's not even there..

Got any more tips up your sleeve?

[rain.man]

Ironically, your epic fail method is the same thing every other guy does to make himself stand out

What happened to you two years ago is basically what you have to do. Every guy in the room wants to get her attention. Instead, make her earn yours. Of course, this means you've gotta be willing to end a conversation if she isn't interesting, something guys really struggle with. Mysterious is good, but don't be completely closed off. You're basically just giving little nibbles here and there in the beginning.

If you want to try something extreme, don't even approach them. I started doing this a long time. You do less flirting, but it also cuts down on the signal-to-noise ratio (for someone to approach you, there must be *some* initial interest). Earlier this week, I was eating dinner while out of town. Just reading a book, minding my own business. A waitress (not mine) came up to me and asked about the book. I gave a brief answer, didn't say much. She went off to her tables and I started reading again. She came back, sat down and started talking to me. Periodically she'd leave to tend her tables, and every time she returned I was back to reading. Right as I was finishing dessert, she came over once more, told me her shift was just ending and invited me back to her place. I *declined*, saying I was just passing through and still had a few hours of driving ahead of me. When my receipt arrived, I found her name and number written on it with a note to call her if I changed my mind before leaving.

Now, if I'd been all smiles, waiting for her to return, blabbing on about my job, the renovations I'm doing on my house, etc, I can pretty much promise it wouldn't have ended like that.

On a totally different note, *when* you stop flirting can determine if you get that date. Another things guys struggle with is waiting too long to leave. If you end while the conversation is on a high note, you're more likely to get that date than if you wait until the conversation has faltered and you're running out of things to talk about. There's an old saying: "Always leave 'em wanting more."

[vashti]

I don't think you should spend the first dates asking endless questions. It will feel too much like an interview. You need to be able to make relevant commentary on whatever you are talking about in addition to asking her questions. And for the record, I think you should be prepared to also answer her questions, because believe me, she will have some unless she is completely self-absorbed or stupid.

Anyway, I think your problem may be with the kind of girls you are attempting to hit on. Some women are totally turned on by intelligence, and distrust charm. And the smart ones won't be up for the kind of game you've been advised to play in previous posts. Where are you meeting women?

Women who aren't feeling it after a date can't be blamed. A lot of what is really happening on a first date is physical chemistry, and not conversational skills, so if they aren't feeling it, it's the lack of chemistry that can be blamed, and chemistry can't be manufactured.

[rain.man]

vashti makes a good point. The questions need to flow naturally into the conversation. You don't want it to sound like a polygraph exam.

Answer her questions, make some brief comments where appropriate, but let her have the bulk of the speaking time.

Like I said in the first post, it isn't always true. A good, smart woman will enjoy a "logical" conversation and will enjoy some banter. But the average person is, well, average. And if you're in a bar, odds are she's average. If you want smart women, don't go to bars, do your socializing in places where intelligent people gather.

[lahnnabell]

I agree. I'm also interested in where you are meeting these seemingly vapid women.

I'm a sucker for good conversation where two people are engaged. Any guy trying to play the obvious "silent and mysterious" card gets DIScarded.

[sookie6]

definitely...

A girl will very often be attracted to someone she finds 'entertaining'...someone she is not bored with.

This is why shy guys have difficulties sustaining the interests of women. Also one thing I usually find is that most men (even shy) find stuff to say during first dates. So to me I get a better idea whether I like being with someone after the 3rd or 4th date.

I completely agree with you on one thing though..for some people dates have become like an interview and it can be daunting to feel scrutinised. I went on a blind date 2 months agao (not blind actually cos I saw his pic before).

The guy was absolutely adorable looking..but his conversation was appalling...actually it was not a conversation...just questions like 'do you practice a sport'/ 'what do you do after work', 'what music do you listen to'...

I believe if people need to be able to talk about anything naturally and bounce back from one topic to another...it shows interest and potential...

It's a bit like in friendship...there are some people with whom you'll never click while it's nearly automatic with others...

[lahnnabell]

I believe if people need to be able to talk about anything naturally and bounce back from one topic to another...it shows interest and potential...

It's a bit like in friendship...there are some people with whom you'll never click while it's nearly automatic with others...

This is what becomes a huge problem for me. I love to talk, and I love to ask questions, so I'm very easily engaged in various types of conversation. But that doesn't mean I will always feel that "spark" of interest. I really love people and getting to know them, but not everyone strikes me as a person I'd like to date. This confuses guys, and I have to resort to being very blunt about my feelings.

[sookie6]

But that doesn't mean I will always feel that "spark" of interest.

I do believe in the spark...you need to have it to make you want to see the person again. But I understand what you're saying. You must have been in situations when the guy felt everything went very well during the date and then you tell him you don't feel the spark...it's confusing for guys because usually when they make an effort it means they fancy the girl...

But getting this spark is not something we can control..;so to go back to the OP he could work on his conversation skills and on his confidence during dates but he will never control the chemistry...

[lahnnabell]

Exactly. It's very important to know what you want. Sounds like a catch-22 because how do you know what you want, unless you figure out what you don't want? Dating is a lot of trial and error and so many people get discouraged after just a few failed dates. But that is part of the game! You meet someone, you go out, you click or you don't, and then you do it again.

And you don't have to be a serial dater. If you're looking for someone to quell your loneliness, you'll be hard-pressed to find a chick that will stick around. No one is attracted to neediness, and whether you think so or not, you may be giving off that vibe. You have to really take a good, hard look at yourself sometimes. If you don't know yourself that well, how the heck can you expect someone else to get to know you?

[hurt_confuzd]

This is all total bullshìt.

What's the solution to your problem with dates? Simple: Stop dating.

It's really the dumbest concept ever: a *designated* time period where you two are supposed to connect and interact? And you get to pay for it! How has this not triggered your Jew instincts yet?! It makes you all sound like social robots, and dates almost never go over as well as they could.

You should take her to something you would be doing anyway. It can be as simple and retarded as grocery shopping. Conversation never gets awkward because there's a myriad of other variables around you like people, food, et cetera, that the only way you could possibly fail to generate conversation is if you have Asperger's Syndrome. If you decide you like her, you can either go back to your place (and eat the food on your roof or something; unless it's illegal there for fear of Katyusha rockets) or leave her there—and neither option makes you look like a dick.

My personal favorite is actually meeting up with her at a bookstore, if you have something you need to pick up. You can not only check out her taste in literature, but more often than not, find out about her hobbies.

By the way, Thom Yorke is an incredible musician. I'm not sure how I feel about you yet.

[lahnnabell]

To the OP, no one is saying you have to go out and drop money on a girl. In fact, a lot of girls are far more impressed with a guy that can show them a good time without throwing down money. It shows that you can be creative and innovative, two qualities that I realized are very rarely fostered in men.

Grocery store is a bit of a stretch. "Hey, wanna tag along while I do my personal errands?" Yeah, no. Bookstore could be okay though, that is, if the girl likes to read at all. It could be a nice simple way to see if a girl is really worth your time. Sit down over some coffee and talk, and then go from there.