Advice/opinions please!!

[MancMusician]

Hi there, this is the first time I've posted here so not sure really where to start. I'll start with the story and then go on from there. I could really do with some advice and opinions as it's not straight forward to me.

Basically, in March I started going out with my best friend of about five years. It was going great although because she was on a gap year and I was at university, it was sometimes long distance. But it worked well for us and the relationship was going great. Then I made a mistake. I'd always known she didn't like heavy drinking and that she didn't like people getting drunk. So I cut back my drinking a lot but didn't say anything so she didn't feel like she was making me do it. However a few months into our relationship, I had gone out with some friends at the end of term, got very drunk and ended up throwing up - not a proud moment. Anyway, I knew she wouldn't like it so I didn't say anything as I thought it would make things easier. When she asked me if I had been drunk, I just said that I hadn't been and promised myself not to get drunk again. A couple of days later, someone posted something on my facebook about how I'd thrown up. She texted me and asked me to phone her so I did and she asked me to be honest and tell her if I'd been drunk and thrown up. I panicked and lied and she said she would check with my friend. I phoned back within a minute or two and came clean and admitted I had been drunk and that I had lied because I panicked. I apologised profusely but she said that her trust in me had been broken and that we would have to go back to being friends. I tried to persuade her to just give me a second chance or at least give me until the end of summer to try and regain her trust but she said that if I wanted a relationship to work with her, we couldn't keep it going until she'd regained her trust in me.

I was coming home two days later and I went round to her house and tried one more time to talk her round and explained how I had stopped drinking so she wouldn't have to worry. The trouble is, I'd broken her trust and because of insecurities about trust that have come up from past boyfriends repeatedly breaking her trust, she wouldn't be able to get rid of the fear that if I could lie about drinking then I could lie about cheating on her. She suggested we didn't break up completely but went on a break and considered coming back to things after she'd had a chance to settle into university and regain her trust. I agreed and got on with our friendship. A couple of days later I saw her and she asked me if there was anything else that she should know if we were to get back together in the future. I admitted that the day before she broke up with me, I had been naked in a hot tub with my other two close friends (who are going out) and she was understandably angry. She suggested going back to just being friends permanently but I persuaded her not to do that on the basis that I had made a mistake and that I had admitted it to her because she asked me to open up about everything. Everything was resolved and we went back to being friends on a break. It was going great - we were still really close, she was still being extremely affectionate and she was appreciating my trying to rebuild her trust.

However then things started to go a bit wrong. I started acting very insecure and we argued occasionally. I've just been diagnosed with depression (I've got a very ill family member and that, plus the situation with my best friend hasn't helped) which in hindsight, I think caused me to be insecure. I was telling her about how I had got a little bit of a hard time from some friends about my not drinking and she kept getting worried that she was forcing me to do things that were then causing me to have issues with friends and family. I tried to convince her this wasn't the case, but she couldn't be certain.

We then went to a concert in London and she was acting different - more distant and less affectionate. I was feeling really insecure about this and then on the train back, she asked what was wrong and I told her. She ended up admitting that she was struggling with stress about her nan (who is VERY ill [terminally] at the moment) and that she didn't feel like she had to act like she was fine around me. I apologised and comforted her (she hardly ever opens up so this was a rare event for her).

We continued getting on fine but then about a week and half later, I went round to see her and she eventually turned round and said she felt that we had to go back to being just friends and that she couldn't see us ever being more than friends. Her reasons were that she we had been arguing more and she felt that this was being caused by the possibility of a relationship hanging around. Another reason was that she didn't think we were compatible as a couple. When I asked her in what sense, she struggled to give me a real answer - the nearest to a real reason she could find was that our sense of humour is different. Her other reason is that she's going to university at Oxford and that she would probably be moving there after and therefore it wouldn't be practical. She was crying her eyes out while telling me all this and it was clearly hard for her to hurt me. And I'm pretty sure these weren't the real reasons for ending things completely. I tried to change her mind the next day but she started saying that if I kept doing that, it would harm the friendship. I relented and haven't said anything since but I'm certain there's something else going on. There's definitely no one else, she takes years to become close enough to someone to go out with them so it isn't anything like that but I can't work out what else it could be.

There are several things that might be useful to know. As I mentioned earlier, her nan is very ill and she's very upset about it but doesn't really talk about it. She's also starting at Oxford University in October and she has been worried about Freshers week as she thought that everyone would be going clubbing although I've managed to relax her about that. She's been meeting people that are going to be on her course to get to know people which has helped people too. She is still a bit nervous about leaving home though as she's close to her family.

I'm just wondering what people think as to why she has done what she did and also if anyone had an idea how I might be able to work towards getting back together with her. I'm aware there are probably no short-term fixes but I'd like to think that after she's spent a bit of time at university, she might settle down and then be able to have a relationship with me again. We are very similar in what we look for and I think we work really well together in a relationship. But until she believes this, nothing's going to happen.

Any advice/help would be really appreciated

[MancMusician]

I know it's a long message, but please consider answering it, it would mean so much to me

[kitkitkitty]

well firstly, i think you know as well as anyone else that you shouldn't have lied to her, because she's already partly categorized this into the 'same as other exes' part of her mind. this doesn't happen all the time and you've made a conscious effort to stop so in a way gives you another reason to tell her rather than keep it from her. as for your current situation... i really think you've just gotta let her settle in and just oce in a while txt or something to say that you hope she's doing ok. and i don't see why she's so worried about going out. 1. it's oxford, gotta keep the good name from getting dragged through the mud and 2. you don't need to go out and get hammered to have a good time, she can just ask for a coke or non-alcoholic cocktail. i don't like getting drunk and that's what i do. and yeah she's probably got that other stuff on her mind just let her have some alone time and relax so that all the pieces start slotting back together. she sounds like a reasonable girl, she just needs time to herself.

[MancMusician]

well firstly, i think you know as well as anyone else that you shouldn't have lied to her, because she's already partly categorized this into the 'same as other exes' part of her mind. this doesn't happen all the time and you've made a conscious effort to stop so in a way gives you another reason to tell her rather than keep it from her. as for your current situation... i really think you've just gotta let her settle in and just oce in a while txt or something to say that you hope she's doing ok. and i don't see why she's so worried about going out. 1. it's oxford, gotta keep the good name from getting dragged through the mud and 2. you don't need to go out and get hammered to have a good time, she can just ask for a coke or non-alcoholic cocktail. i don't like getting drunk and that's what i do. and yeah she's probably got that other stuff on her mind just let her have some alone time and relax so that all the pieces start slotting back together. she sounds like a reasonable girl, she just needs time to herself.

Thank you so much for getting back to me on this.

Yes I know I shouldn't have lied. Every friend I've spoken to said she overreacted by ditching me but I stand by her and say she was right because I shouldn't have lied. That was why I phoned her straight back and apologised. I make no excuses for myself. I handled it all very badly and I understand. I've not drunk in months now and don't intend to either. What I don't understand is her suddenly deciding we can never be more than friends. It wasn't so long before that we had been laying on the grass in a park in London before a concert, she was cuddling me and repeatedly kissing my forehead and worrying she was being inappropriate with me. Then suddenly she changed.

I agree about Oxford. She isn't as worried about the Freshers week stuff now. The only thing she worries about it being around people who are drinking because she doesn't even like that. But she seems to have found a group of people who are like her and she's been meeting them at some of the BBC Proms to get to know them. I think she's largely scared of leaving home because she'll miss her family and her nan is very sick so she will feel helpless. (When I started university two years ago, my grandad was also unwell so I know exactly how she felt back then).

In terms of how often I contact her, we have been talking every day for years. Before, during and since going out. But recently she's been much more closed and I worried she was drifting away as a friend but I phoned her and she explained that when she gets really stressed and upset, she tends to hide away from those she's close to and instead talk nonsense to people she doesn't know as well. We're still best friends and I feel that I should probably try to talk to her all the time to be there for her. Would you say that I may be a better friend by stepping away for a while even if it hurts me a bit?

And in terms of hope for a future getting back together, do you reckon with time, once she's sorted stuff out in her head, like her nan, has settled into uni, etc. there may be a chance of us getting back together?

[kitkitkitty]

i honestly don't know if there's a chance that's a decision namely for her and you but don't concentrate on that. but with the uni thing.... she's going out into the real world, just cos she doesn't like watching people drink doesn't mean they're gona stop for her.. i don't like watching my mum smoke but its her life she can do what she wants with it, same as these new people she's going to meet, do you not agree? she's gona have a few problems getting on with people otherwise. i'm going to birmingham uni this year and i know people will do stuff i don't approve of but what can i do? i won't lock myself away in my room.
have a phone/ face to face chat with her before she leaves and talk about the similarities of your situations going into uni. the fact you've experienced similar things will be sure to help her. but you've gotta leave her to it, i know it must be hard. but concentrate on yourself too, you're not living for her/ through her and you've gotta think of yourself once in a while.

[MancMusician]

Well this is true. I suppose I'm wondering if her reasons for suddenly deciding to stay as just friends forever seemed set and inflexible. Whether her real reason could be all her stress she's going under and hence when that stress has gone, maybe she'd be open to a relationship again?

She's aware of the fact that people aren't going to stop for her. It threw her a lot when I stopped drinking partially for her. She doesn't want people to change for her but she makes the decision not to be around people who are drinking heavily. And ironically, while you and I both agree on the fact we wouldn't lock ourselves in our rooms, she would do precisely that. She's already said that she's so determined to get a 1st that she will be studying all day and when she isn't studying, she'll be practicing piano or in the library. I remember when she was still at school and she was exactly like this. NOTHING comes in between her and work. In the holidays, she sees friends as much as she can. But during term time, aside from maybe half an hour for a coffee, she'll be working/practicing.

In terms of telling her about our similar experiences, I've done that and I've told her that I won't push her to talk if she doesn't want to but that it could help and if she ever wants to then she only has to call me but I think she's happier bottling things up. At the moment, I'm aware that if we do get back together, it won't be for a while. So for the meantime I want to keep our friendship as close as it ever was so that something has the chance to develop from there

[kitkitkitty]

the thing i was thinking about is that while she may see friends in the holidays, she has to make new ones at uni. hopefully people will have the same mindset as her, i'm sure they will i know people who are going to oxford.
i think with the whole friends thing.. i think she's trying to push it to the back of her mind. not because it's not important but cos everything else is a lot more pressing and hasn't been going on for quite as long. you can't really do much but wait until she's settled in. as usual, make your presence visible but don't push. oxford students haven't started yet have they? if not, you can propose to go out together to get some last minute bits and bobs for her new room and have a nice chat together.

[MancMusician]

Yeah absolutely. And she's doing that now by meeting a small group at the BBC Proms and that's great for her. She's now going to know about 3 or 4 people and she's happy with this. It's making her feel more relaxed about knowing people up there. Especially as she'll never be one for wanting to know lots of people, but rather a small group of like-minded people who won't mind that in term-time she's going to work non-stop.

So you think she seems distant because the stress of her nan and things is taking over in her mind? It's confusing because in her position, I'd want to be really close to my close friends, rather than gravitate more to the random ones I barely know and talk nonsense to them. But I can't work out why she's doing that. I'm hopefully phoning her tonight to try and work out some of this with her. I'm also on Benzodiazipinies to cope with the anxiety so hopefully I'll see things in better perspective and once I understand completely what she's saying then I think I'll relax about that more.

You're right, Oxford students don't start until October, whereas I start at the end of next week. So I'm hoping to see her some time this week and some time the following week before I go away myself.

So in terms of a potential future relationship, obviously you can't say, but from what I outlined in my first post, would you think her sudden break-up was more to do with not being able to handle the number of issues she had going on and hence is just pushing away instinctively. And if so, how should I approach things? Just act normal and stay as friendly as possible or maybe take a step back for a while to give her a bit of time to herself, then start to get closer again and hope that she's able to see me as more than a friend one day?

[kitkitkitty]

i think that these other factors have had an impact on her but the only way to find out to what degree this is affecting her is obviously by asking.
and i go up on 25th september, can't wait!
from what you wrote, i think that she's still not entirely sure what to do herself and i'd feel bad predicting and it turning out completely differently. i think that however minor, you doing all of this for her will remind er why she fell for you in the 1st place. no need to change yourself/ try too hard, she likes you for who you are now.

[MancMusician]

Well that's the thing. When she initially said about calling off everything permanently rather than continuing on a break, she gave a few reasons as I mentioned in the first post but when I asked about these, they seemed flimsy and I could tell by her body language and how she was being around me that there was something else. I'd put money on there being a deeper reason to it all. But I doubt asking her would yield gold tbh. She's an extremely private person and won't even talk to her closest friends about things that upset her a lot.

When you say she's not sure what to do herself, do you mean in terms of relationship/considering getting back together or something else? I will keep doing what I can for her all the time as usual although I do need to try and understand why she sometimes drifts away from her closest friends and claims she needs space, while happily talking for ages with people she barely knows.

I won't change myself any more than I have - I stopped drinking and stopped telling poor taste jokes - so not major changes but I'm just hoping that after she develops emotionally at university, she may be brave and take the risk of giving things another shot. The trouble is she's got a massive fear of being hurt and until she learns to deal with that, I doubt she'll really take a risk.

[kitkitkitty]

im thinking she's not sure what she wants in terms of you 2. as with the rest of it, go with the flow.
and i hope for you she'll open up, it can't be easy for you to work her out. i don't really know what else to say really.

[MancMusician]

Ah I see. So you'd say just be patient, wait, keep good friends with her and see if anything materialises in the long run?

[Lite]

My advice? Find someone else to date.

It's great that you're friends, and it's great that you love her.

However that does not mean that you are great as a couple, and that's where the disconnect happens. So, basically either you have the choice of being yourself because that's who you are, and finding someone who accepts you for being you. Or, you can change yourself for someone, and then eventually end up bitter that you're not the person you want to be. Which would you rather have? A close friend who's concerned about her ill Nan, or a girlfriend who you're forcing yourself to be someone you're not in order to be with them?

Whenever anyone asks me what I think the key to a successful relationship is I always respond with: "Date someone whose neuroses are compatible with your own."

She's not OK with your drinking, and it's something you are not willing to change for yourself. Not only that, but it affects her opinion so much that you're willing to lie about it and cover it up. Either you're ok with you not drinking, or you're not. Which is it? You cannot legitimately make the decision to change yourself for someone else. In the end, you'll just resent that person and make both of you miserable in the relationship. Either you want to change because you want to be a better you, for yourself, or you're just not going to be happy.

I think you're trying too hard to fit yourself into her relationship mold, and she's not trying to fit herself into your relationship mold. It isn't going to work long term, and you'll end up just losing your friend and your lover.

[MancMusician]

My advice? Find someone else to date.

It's great that you're friends, and it's great that you love her.

However that does not mean that you are great as a couple, and that's where the disconnect happens. So, basically either you have the choice of being yourself because that's who you are, and finding someone who accepts you for being you. Or, you can change yourself for someone, and then eventually end up bitter that you're not the person you want to be. Which would you rather have? A close friend who's concerned about her ill Nan, or a girlfriend who you're forcing yourself to be someone you're not in order to be with them?

Whenever anyone asks me what I think the key to a successful relationship is I always respond with: "Date someone whose neuroses are compatible with your own."

She's not OK with your drinking, and it's something you are not willing to change for yourself. Not only that, but it affects her opinion so much that you're willing to lie about it and cover it up. Either you're ok with you not drinking, or you're not. Which is it? You cannot legitimately make the decision to change yourself for someone else. In the end, you'll just resent that person and make both of you miserable in the relationship. Either you want to change because you want to be a better you, for yourself, or you're just not going to be happy.

I think you're trying too hard to fit yourself into her relationship mold, and she's not trying to fit herself into your relationship mold. It isn't going to work long term, and you'll end up just losing your friend and your lover.

Very interesting reply, thank you!

I must admit I do think we are great as a couple. We are both inexperienced and I think we are at a good level for eachother. I learn from my mistakes very quickly and I know they won't happen again. In answer to your question, I think I would currently rather have a close friend who's concerned about her ill nan but in the long term, i.e. months in the future, I'd rather have a girlfriend who I wouldn't have to be forcing myself to be someone I'm not because the stopping drinking was also based on medical reasons and the fact that drink is responsible for my grandad's illness it seems. Just looking at all the facts and the recent research I've come across, I'm happier not drinking.

I'm interested by what you say about the neuroses because ours are very similar, and I'm not just saying that. That was one of the things I always liked about her in the first place.

She was always okay with me drinking but she didn't like people getting excessively drunk. This is something that I did take note of and aside from that fateful time, I didn't have more than a pint and was happy with that as it allowed me to drive to the pub and not walk home in freezing Manchester conditions!! My reason for lying was that I never got that drunk and never intended to do so again in the future so I thought it would be easier just to say nothing. It was silly of me really and in hindsight I should have just explained that. I want to change for a better me and since not drinking I've been healthier and happier for it. As I say, I haven't just stopped drinking for her.

I'm trying not to fit into her relationship mould and instead just go along as close friends but I'm interested as to whether, with time at university, she'll come around to the idea of going out with me again.

[Lite]

I did not say similar neuroses. I said compatible. As in your problems are not going to exacerbate her problem...and her issues are not going to exacerbate your problems.

If trust is a lynch pin of a relationship, so is communication, and understanding. By failing to say, "Yeah, I had a bit too much and I feel stupid." you panicked and tried to hide it from her. You failed communication, and trust, she failed understanding. I wouldn't force any kind of relationship with her right now, nor even ask for one. Just be her friend, and go on with your life. If the timing works out and you get back together later, great. If not, you didn't waste your time waiting on what would/could never be.

I once dated a girl who was utterly anti-drinking, and well, I wanted to drink. I didn't get drunk, I didn't drink and drive. I'd just have a pint with co-workers before going home. She was still in college, so it wasn't like she was waiting on me to come home or anything. However, it caused more than a little friction in our relationship. But the basic failure you're having is that you can't be honest about what you're doing, and she's not being understanding. If you going out and getting drunk, and lying about it once is such a deal breaker, she's probably got much bigger issues to sort through and she's not doing it.