Completely Numb Right Now

[the_robot]

Hmm he's not coming to LF since few days... It could be a bad sign.

I hope he didn't get in any trouble..

[sookie6]

I think Vincenzo is doing what we should all do on this forum...he has come for advice, received plenty and is now dealing with his 'situation' with th benefits of our opinions but deciding on his own what the best path should be for him now...when he comes back and I hope he will we'll just have to continue to offer support and respect his choices.

[VincenzoG91]

An update for all of you:

I have since met with her three more times.

The first time was good, I got to ask a lot more questions, and I think that the answers that I got were honest, given that some of the answers were upsetting to hear. We did get interrupted a couple of times, because there was a locksmith working on changing the locks when we first started talking. I gave her a copy of the official paperwork kicking her off our apartment lease, due to "abandonment of the apartment." I told her that I still loved her, but I also officially broke up with her. I said that I can't have a girlfriend who lives with another man like this, and she said that she understood. She also made it clear that she is definitely leaving this guy, and I said that I would help her when she is ready. We both came up with a plan for how she should leave him, based on the assumption that he is a control freak and stalker. She told me her plan first, and it was similar to mine. Unfortunately, she wants to wait until the end of the semester to move out, which would be in mid-May. The last five minutes that she was at my place, Craig called five times. She left in a hurry, looking a little scared.

The second time was harder, because all I wanted to talk about was the plan to move and also ask some more questions about the past. She was very forthcoming with details, even with really invasive questions. After the first hour, she wanted to lighten things up and just talk about other stuff, and I tried to roll with it, but I was just too obsessed with the situation. And I was troubled when she raised the possibility of couples counseling for her and Craig... not because she wants to fix their relationship, but because she wants a therapist to tell Craig that he is wrong to abuse her. I told her to forget it, he would never agree to counseling. Or if he did go, he would pick up some of the jargon and use it to manipulate her, dragging this mess out for another year. The abuse is mostly verbal, but sometimes he grabs her arm or pushes her or takes away her phone/car keys/purse. By this point, we both suspected that Craig is tracking her movements by GPS, either on her car or phone. He called twice towards the end of our meal, and she wanted us to leave separately in case he was out in the parking lot.

The third time, she called me just before I was going to leave work the other day. I was going to run a couple of errands in the area, and she wanted to tag along, just to hang out. We talked about some serious stuff in the car, but kept it light while in the stores. She is now talking about waiting until August to move out, because she is planning on living on campus next fall and doesn't want to move twice. I told her that I am really stressed out about her situation and it would be really painful to wait that long to get her out of there safely. She backed away from the idea and said that she might move out in May. Now I'm thinking that she has somewhat exaggerated the abuse, or at least the frequency of it, because I can't imagine waiting six months to leave if things were that bad.

She has also been complaining about her cash situation. Craig is punishing her by not helping her with anything. So am I. She says that she doesn't expect me to help her under the circumstances, but without Craig's help, she doesn't know how she is going to get by before the end of the semester. I told her that if she is going to be Craig's little slave, she should ask her master for support. That was kind of brutal, given that she is half Kenyan and it's black history month. But I was serious. Craig might be a control freak, but if he seriously had to support Amy, I think that he would finally lose interest in her. I think that going broke will force her to move up her timetable. Besides, if she doesn't go broke soon, Craig will get suspicious about that, too.

This situation is really hard for me. In the past, I have usually moved on pretty quickly after a breakup, but then I've never before been in a relationship that lasted so many years. Logic be damned, I still love her. I feel like a drug addict lately. When I see her, I'm so happy. And she is so happy to be around me too, even more so than she has been in the months leading up to this. Whatever you might think from reading this thread, Amy is not a subtle manipulator. When she turns on the charm, it is as obvious as hearing a bell ring. In times past, when I asked questions that might have led to discovering Craig, she didn't charm her way out, she tended to change the topic abruptly or give me an unfriendly look and silence, to discourage the question. I decided years ago to pick my battles, but I picked the wrong ones.

I think that she really was planning to leave Craig, but was probably hoping that I would never find out about him. That's why she spent so much more time with me starting last fall, and that's why he felt threatened enough to finally confront me after all these years. Like my neighbor observed, he was very forceful whenever he used the word "fiance," like he was trying to bluff me.

And when a couple of days go by without contact, I start feeling sad and angry again. Every day, I battle the urge to drive over to their house and beat the hell out of Craig. I'm 100% sure now that he's the one who stole my shoes last year when she moved out (look for a really old thread of mine here), and there are some other incidents from the past few years that now make more sense if I assume that Craig was lurking around. But after a long talk with an old friend the other day, I finally realized a bitter truth: I'm sinking down to their level. Amy is still lying and sneaking around, the only thing that has changed is who she is lying to and who she is sneaking around with.

She wanted to get together with me tomorrow. She feels bad that we can't do Valentine's Day together, because Craig has plans for her and will continue to be super-suspicious of her every move. But I already made plans with friends for tomorrow night, and am sticking to those plans. (We're going to a gothic fashion show called Love is the New Black.) Then she asked if I could take a half-day off from work and spend tomorrow afternoon with her, and I said no to that, too. January and February are really busy at work, and I already took a couple of half-days off dealing with this mess. To stay caught up, I've only taken one full day off from work in the last three weeks.

What does she want? She wants to leave Craig and get back together with me, but not yet. I think that it's a combination of fear and her usual procrastination.

What do I want? I actually want the same thing, more or less. I want her to leave Craig. And if she is willing to meet my conditions (restraining order, couples counseling for us, etc), I want to try dating her again. I know, it's clearly a bad idea, but I've still got such strong feelings for her that I at least want to try.

[VincenzoG91]

By the way, in an effort to get over all of this, I did make a serious effort to hook up with a woman who posted here some last fall. She and I stayed in touch in a friendly way and talked a lot about meeting up, but she started dating someone new recently, so it's probably not going to happen for us. If you mods have the ability to peek into our private messages here, you will know who I'm talking about.

Otherwise, I really haven't had any enthusiasm for meeting anybody new.

[SelflessnHumble]

Well, Hello there. And, then: Wow dude.

You're dangerously close to being her Master when it comes to emotional support as she leans on him for financial support.

See, SHE doesn't need your help: and you don't really want to help her dude. I know you are using this situation to win
one against Craig but the reality of this is: It's a brow beating contest and you want to win it: so badly that you will
get impatient and even force your own wants onto her while she obviously lied to you about even more things to keep you
at bay while she continues to play the both of you.

How simple is life: She gets abused: She leaves. Simple.
She is actually opening up to you: and your only primary focus is: to get your way: she leaving him
and you are using the abuse card to get her to see your way: and the reason why this doesn't fly is because:

She exaggerated what he was assumed to be doing to her: because she knew you'd put 2 and 2 together.
A controlling jerk would go through great lengths, even tracking or following her.

What does she CHOOSE TO DO? Use you when she's been outed as an untrustworthy liar.
What do you want? You want her to leave Craig. She'd rather take him to counseling just so she can get validation of his
so called abuse...It's your choice: just don't be all that surprised: or hurt NOR yell, argue nor fight with her if she:

-never leaves him
-meets someone else
-never meets your *conditions*

She is who she is: and nothing you do: infer nor imply is going to change that.
Is She wants to change: She will change for herself; not for you based on what YOU want her to do.
If you already know that then you should know she's experiencing cognitive dissonance. The ball is in her court.

Spending a special day (even considering it) with someone like her is a no no dude.
I wish you the best, but you are going down the wrong path for the wrong reasons. It's sad. Been there. Not a good place.

[curly1118]

Wow. I just spent over an hour reading these posts and oh my goodness. I am totally and completely baffled. I hope everything works out for you and I can't really give you any advice as I have not been in a relationship for that long and I wouldn't be able to relate with how that would effect your feelings for someone. I mean, if I had to say I would not get back together with her. She just seems really really... shady I guess. It almost sounds like she wants to get back together with you because she feels bad. And she's using the way you feel against you so that you'll want the same thing, which you admitted you did.

[MerryH]

Welcome back.

I was really hoping for an update where you tell us how you're now thinking clearly and you've decided that you'll have nothing more to do with Amy's self-created shitstorm. It's tough to see a good person value themselves so little. I know you really care about her, but you're better than this.

Good luck with everything.

[zenots]

so sorry to read your problems.. mine is nothing when compared to yours, though it hurts as hell as well..

good luck for all of us dude and take care

[sookie6]

By the way, in an effort to get over all of this, I did make a serious effort to hook up with a woman who posted here some last fall. She and I stayed in touch in a friendly way and talked a lot about meeting up, but she started dating someone new recently, so it's probably not going to happen for us. If you mods have the ability to peek into our private messages here, you will know who I'm talking about.

Otherwise, I really haven't had any enthusiasm for meeting anybody new.

Even if you dated someone now...it would be rebound BIG TIME I'm afraid...this Amy got under your skin...the only way out for you is to put a brutal and an impossible geographical distance between the two of you.
I don't recommend you marry this woman or have children with her (I know you're hoping to have children some day) but she is not mother material...she is a mess...she can't even take care of herself...don't add up on poor decisions..

Again Vicenzo...don't ever make her the mother of your children...

A clean cut is your only hope to start afresh...be strong my friend.

[alwaystryin]

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this. Nothing hurts worse than being betrayed by someone you love. I wish you the best in dealing, stay strong. I know this is much easier said then done, but try to keep a tough resolve, logically this is so wrong. Don't let yourself forget that for a second, the heart depends on the mind to take over sometimes...

[SelflessnHumble]

I'm so sorry you're going through all of this. Nothing hurts worse than being betrayed by someone you love. I wish you the best in dealing, stay strong. I know this is much easier said then done, but try to keep a tough resolve, logically this is so wrong. Don't let yourself forget that for a second, the heart depends on the mind to take over sometimes...

I think you're wrong...There is something worse than being betrayed by someone you love:

Sticking around using "answers" "explanations" and helping the one that betrayed you to get out of that
supposed abusive relationship while she claimed she loved him.

[misombra]

i cannot believe you're falling for all this bullshit.

[Petit Papillon]

This is probably the worse case of naivete that I have seen on LF ever. I thought that vince doesn't belong to such cases... And I'm not making fun of this, it's seriously sad. But well you get what you ask for right? Some stupid forum and virtual people will not change his mind...

[alwaystryin]

I think you're wrong...There is something worse than being betrayed by someone you love:

Sticking around using "answers" "explanations" and helping the one that betrayed you to get out of that
supposed abusive relationship while she claimed she loved him.

You're right, I wasn't thinking of self abuse at the time. That is worse.. or at least more sad. But then, we're all guilty of that.

[purpletwist]

i cant even think of a response, could only imagine how you're feeling