Completely Numb Right Now

[VincenzoG91]

My previous ex-girlfriend had kids, and there was never a moment when I doubted that her kids came first and I was third-place. They were great kids, I hung in there extra years just for their sake, but their mother was too much trouble for me to handle.

[vashti]

My previous ex-girlfriend had kids, and there was never a moment when I doubted that her kids came first and I was third-place.

Yes, that is as it SHOULD be. It's very hard for people without kids to understand this.

I think the problem you will have is that dating a woman who has kids (and is a good mother) renders your needs as being somewhat less important that theirs, and dating women without kids (in an age-bracket most appropriate for you) means she probably doesn't want any.

Of course, there are exceptions.

[xxazurexx]

You aren't too old to meet someone else and go on to have kids.

My dad met my step mum when he was your age and after he and my mum split. She already had 2 kids to a previous marriage, but they went on to have 3 kids.

[SelflessnHumble]

Exactly, this was my point. How this can allowed to be dragged on due to her uh "scheduling" seems out of this world to me.
This is why I've always been apprehensive about "online" dating in general. They can create a profile somewhere else, they can become someone else
and no one will be none the wiser...Of course good people would never pull this kind of crap on other people either.

[Take2]

This is why I've always been apprehensive about "online" dating in general. They can create a profile somewhere else, they can become someone else
and no one will be none the wiser...Of course good people would never pull this kind of crap on other people either.

It's not the online nature of meeting, nor is it online dating, that makes this a possibility. It is the conniving and dishonest nature of the person who does this crap. Well before there was an internet, people pulled this crap and had dual lives. Vince's girlfriend was doing it online AND in real life. Let's put the blame and the risk where they belong. Dishonest people are to blame for their dishonest actions, and they will find a way to be dishonest with whatever technology or methods are available where and when they live. We all risk being duped when we trust another person. We can look for warning signs and keep our eyes open, but trust is risk by its nature. Fortunately, most people are not nefariously dishonest, and most people have some level of integrity. People like the woman in this situation are seriously messed up, and exceedingly rare. That's why this is such a shock to read about, because it is rare.

[SelflessnHumble]

Seriously bro, the age isn't the problem: it's her experiences but even more important is what she's learned (and applied) from them.
Depending on who you meet: some women will put their own kids on the back burner: which isn't cool, while others make it known their priorities lie
with their children, but then again: they too have failed relationships under their belt for some reason. Sometimes, sure, they've made bad decisions...

With other women it is glaringly obvious why they are single, but it is almost next to impossible to superimpose what we've experienced and slab it onto people you know.
We can sniff out the behaviors as to what people do (and how they do it) but it is impossible to know the "why."

Your sig quote says it all, man.
Inside you: you KNOW what you want, what you deserve and you KNOW that how she treats you; that these seasonal and spontaneous gaps in your relationship (she initiates) are complete BS.

The best advice: is to always hear them out BUT time is of the essence. While I realize human emotions aren't akin to warfare: I've learned how to reveal the truth in these types of scenarios.
It almost takes a sneak to know one and it sucks when you're the nice guy in all this providing love, compassion and a supportive environment but give a mouse a cookie and he's gonna want some milk.

Not meeting her friends and family: is a red flag.
Even when a person she is "living" with hates you: this is too a red flag, the same with her being ashamed of your age gap.
How convenient the circumstances involved with how things end up: preclude you from being around her closest people in her life???? -this makes zero sense-
UNLESS she's lying to you. For whatever reason, a lie, is a lie -is a lie!

My ex did the very same thing to this older gent.
At the time she would come to me, and tell me how she did love him (but it was clear it wasn't passionate/physical love) it was
the kind of love that was was thankful for the security and support (and the money of course) BUT she came to me for sex
and since I was nuts myself (back then) -I never took into consideration his feelings at all.

I just don't understand why you aren't expediting this meet to NOW?
Why aren't you two speaking NOW, face to face in person on even ground?
Honestly dude, closure doesn't need her admissions of transgressions against you.
True closure happens when you look in the mirror, and realize that YOU did everything you possibly could for this relationship...
and that she didn't love you, respect you enough to be true to you OR have the fortitude to tell you to your face she didn't want to be exclusive with you anymore (whenever she felt it)

THIS ^^^ is the moment you begin to move on.
The hurt that you feel subsides when you KNOW that what you provide to a woman and who you are: is deserving of a true relationship chalk full of love, affection, respect and most of all
exclusivity in knowing that when she is out: she's either thinking of you or can't wait to come home to you. -This snake-bag of scum doesn't deserve you. It's time you realize the truth
whether or not her BS provides confirmation...

[SelflessnHumble]

Truth be told: you've been subjected to think and feel this is "rare" but it isn't when it comes to online dating in my experience(s)

Of course this is solely on her: but these kinds of people HIDE from who they are correct? What better medium than an online dating site
emailing and "chatting" (back and forth) in order to create a false reality to hook the reader? My ex is currently locked up for attempted murder.
She had a huge group of friends who did the same as her: USED people for whatever means they could squeeze out their targets.

Some women who've been burned (in their case they were raped) move on. Others use other people to repair their internal hurt because it makes
them feel better about being who they are.

[Take2]

Truth be told: you've been subjected to think and feel this is "rare" but it isn't when it comes to online dating in my experience(s)

Of course this is solely on her: but these kinds of people HIDE from who they are correct? What better medium than an online dating site
emailing and "chatting" (back and forth) in order to create a false reality to hook the reader? My ex is currently locked up for attempted murder.
She had a huge group of friends who did the same as her: USED people for whatever means they could squeeze out their targets.

Some women who've been burned (in their case they were raped) move on. Others use other people to repair their internal hurt because it makes
them feel better about being who they are.

I've "been subjected to think," what does that even mean? My online dating experience is that it is a means to meet people, and once you meet it is no iddferent from meeting anywhere else. A person who wants to hide who he/she is can hook up in a bar or club or online or through a local pottery club. It makes no difference.
Hiding through online dating would only work if you never took it to real life and had a date. And yeah, I would assume that "relationships" where the parties never meet are far more likely to involve dishonest people than normal relationships.

And OK, you know of one group of dishonest people who use online dating as their trap and tried to use people they met that way. That doesn't mean that this is common. I've found online dating to return the exact same variety of people and motives and the same percentages of honesty and integrity and everything else as any other cross-section of humanity. Now, users are common. Humankind is fundamentally greedy and lazy, but most people have some limits they place on that sort of behavior that stops well before the kind of thing in the OP.

[sookie6]

For now, the meaning of my life is simpler. The reason I will get up tomorrow is to feed my cat. He's a really nice cat, and he loves me. The idea of him sniffing my dead body saddens me so much that I will force myself to live and get up every morning. The day he dies, I will be staring into an abyss of loneliness. Fortunately, he is a young cat, maybe 3 years old.

Oh please can I keep this as my signature as this is exactly how I feel except I don't even own a cat... ???

[SelflessnHumble]

I'm not understanding why you're not understanding this?

You have your opinion as I have mine.
Both are from experience. Do I have more experience, possibly.

A face to face meet means there aren't ANY sort of means where you can "set" up the meet
before hand with dialogue...Breaking the ice...whereas meeting face to face means (at least for me) no wing man:
who you are entirely either attracts women OR you go online for this reason, or because of a scheduling conflict/busy lifestyle or other reasons.

See a manipulating liar like Amy can say things to put inside his head to preface her future actions to be overlooked...
"I work long hours" or "sometimes I'm called into work at a moment's notice" or "I don't know why but my friends never like by BF's" or
"I choose to separate my life's friends/family with my BF's" "it's just the way I am, I guess" and other kinds of BS. Of course she could say this
in real life but it's easier to walk away when this is said up front, as opposed to her conditioning her ideal mate. She can even say:
"Sometimes, I just take off from work and go off by myself and enjoy life and myself." All of these are excuses if left unchecked will enable her to
further lie and cheat unimpeded with impunity or consequence.

I guess I just know how to pick psychopaths, right? I could go on but this isn't about me or you.
It's about Vince getting closure AND then it's about him identifying potential psychopaths for him to pass by and avoid.
There are always signs ALWAYS.

And Vince: YOU AREN'T ALONE BRO!!!!
Not only do you have yourself (which should be enough) but you have the forum's support as well as your cats!
Stay positive.

[VincenzoG91]

To be honest, during my peak dating years, my friends and I used to joke about the damaged goods discount. Meaning, you could sometimes date a really hot woman who was out of your league if she had some serious issues. Unfortunately, I seem to have tendencies towards enabling behavior. I take care of things and make excuses for the damaged woman. Feeling needed makes me feel like a hero. Shining Knight syndrome.

[xxazurexx]

Unfortunately, I seem to have tendencies towards enabling behavior. I take care of things and make excuses for the damaged woman. Feeling needed makes me feel like a hero. Shining Knight syndrome.

Unfortunately, men like this often tend to get used by women.

Used and while she wants your help....cast aside and when she's back on her feet again.

The 'leech' will keep you around, particularly if you are a man who has been generous with money and continue to take you for all they can.

[sookie6]

To be honest, during my peak dating years, my friends and I used to joke about the damaged goods discount. Meaning, you could sometimes date a really hot woman who was out of your league if she had some serious issues. Unfortunately, I seem to have tendencies towards enabling behavior. I take care of things and make excuses for the damaged woman. Feeling needed makes me feel like a hero. Shining Knight syndrome.

I was surprised reading your description of your exes because I always pictured you with a well-together woman...maybe this shining Knight syndrome is what you need to get rid off to succeed in finding the right match for you...

There are A LOT of trustworthy and available women out there maybe not as sassy or sexy as your exes or as needy but some other traits are attractive too: a kind heart/unselfishness and intelligence...

I think when you start dating again you should look for someone who is a giver rather than a taker...it should be the major trait you look for...

[SelflessnHumble]

I get that, and at one point it fueled my very existence but consider this:
Helping other people with their problems (when you haven't faced yours) is a sort of deflection because
what you do and who you are should give you purpose, satisfaction and the feeling that you get from helping damaged people.

My ex who is an honest superficial 9 (exterior wise) damn near perfect did the same thing.
She looked for men to take "care" of her. Later, she became the hero, helping people: but she focused her help on her exes.
Sadly she's never learned, nearly 30, single and countless failed relationships. It never occurred to her -that her failures were due to her own choices.

Not to be off topic but since you really care about your cat...I'd really love it if you took a look at this site, k?
I too have a kitty and he's 15 -but acts like a healthy kitten...Cats are strict obligate carnivores, they NEED animal based protein,
not fortified fruits and veggies and grains! -Definitely not dry kibble- ever!
I plan on my cat living until he's 25-which is possible with a natural food/raw diet.

[url=http://www.catnutrition.org/index.php]Cat Nutrition.Org[/url]

[VincenzoG91]

Meeting delayed until Friday night. Her work and class schedule are in the way, and I'm exhausted from sleep deprivation. She is going to slide the keys under the door, so I can get those back to our landlord tomorrow.