is it cheating? - Help a girl understand.

[mountaineer]

Hello, I'm new to this forum. I joined because I'm really trying to understand the situation I am in. My friends of course agree with what I already believe, but I want to give "him" the benefit of the doubt and I figured if I ask complete strangers they may help me.

Here's the situation summarized:

-The guy and I have been friends for 4 years.
-We dated the last 1.5 years of this friendship
-He broke up with me after a big fight 3 months ago, but we continued to see each other.
- About a month ago, we started seeing each other more frequently and we became intimate again.
- I am not one to be sharing, and I knew that though he didn't want to define our relationship
I needed to set my boundaries. So I had a conversation with him and I said that what we were doing
was fine, and that we could be friends who were intimate for a while, and that I had no expectations
of him that we could both be independent, BUT I made it clear that if we were to be like this
we would have to be mutually exclusive. I said that even kissing someone else would not be ok with me,
and i said that if he didn't agree, that would be fine but that I would want to know immediately, so we could
be normal friends.
-He agreed to being mutually exclusive.
-We were happy, he sought my company quite often, he was very sweet to me, in fact nicer than when we were officially dating. His family has always loved me, and continued to love me. I was nice to him and to his family.
-I noticed that he didn't want to have sex as often. I jokingly said that's a sign of him cheating. He said he'd never do that, and that he only wants to be with me, nobody else.
-A week ago he called to say how much he loves me, and how happy he is to be with me. He said I'm his best friend and that he'd never want to hurt me.

That's the background information.

here's the deal
-Two days ago I found out that he was seeing a girl who, when we were together was harassing me and trying to flirt with him
- I questioned him about the rumors, asking him if it was true that they kissed. He denied it calling me crazy. I believed him. He told me he loves me and that he hadn't kissed or done anything with any other woman while we were broken up
-Though I believed him, my intuition told me otherwise, so I, very politely called this other woman to ask her. Apparently they had been seeing each other and being intimate for a month..She had asked him if he was exclusive with anyone else and he said no.
-I once again confronted him letting him know I knew the truth. I felt betrayed and very angry, but my nature is that when i'm very angry I remain calm and i become extra polite and proper. He called me a psychobitch.
-Now he's saying that it was not cheating because we weren't officially dating. He admits to lying to me about her, lying about being mutually exclusive and having played games with me.

SO, as guys, do you think it is true that he wasn't cheating because we weren't official?

[mountaineer]

(i posted this in the ask a guy forum too, but i really want to seek understanding... so i'll post it here as well)
Hello, I'm new to this forum. I joined because I'm really trying to understand the situation I am in. My friends of course agree with what I already believe, but I want to give "him" the benefit of the doubt and I figured if I ask complete strangers they may help me.

Here's the situation summarized:

-The guy and I have been friends for 4 years.
-We dated the last 1.5 years of this friendship
-He broke up with me after a big fight 3 months ago, but we continued to see each other.
- About a month ago, we started seeing each other more frequently and we became intimate again.
- I am not one to be sharing, and I knew that though he didn't want to define our relationship
I needed to set my boundaries. So I had a conversation with him and I said that what we were doing
was fine, and that we could be friends who were intimate for a while, and that I had no expectations
of him that we could both be independent, BUT I made it clear that if we were to be like this
we would have to be mutually exclusive. I said that even kissing someone else would not be ok with me,
and i said that if he didn't agree, that would be fine but that I would want to know immediately, so we could
be normal friends.
-He agreed to being mutually exclusive.
-We were happy, he sought my company quite often, he was very sweet to me, in fact nicer than when we were officially dating. His family has always loved me, and continued to love me. I was nice to him and to his family.
-I noticed that he didn't want to have sex as often. I jokingly said that's a sign of him cheating. He said he'd never do that, and that he only wants to be with me, nobody else.
-A week ago he called to say how much he loves me, and how happy he is to be with me. He said I'm his best friend and that he'd never want to hurt me.

That's the background information.

here's the deal
-Two days ago I found out that he was seeing a girl who, when we were together was harassing me and trying to flirt with him
- I questioned him about the rumors, asking him if it was true that they kissed. He denied it calling me crazy. I believed him. He told me he loves me and that he hadn't kissed or done anything with any other woman while we were broken up
-Though I believed him, my intuition told me otherwise, so I, very politely called this other woman to ask her. Apparently they had been seeing each other and being intimate for a month..She had asked him if he was exclusive with anyone else and he said no.
-I once again confronted him letting him know I knew the truth. I felt betrayed and very angry, but my nature is that when i'm very angry I remain calm and i become extra polite and proper. He called me a psychobitch.
-Now he's saying that it was not cheating because we weren't officially dating. He admits to lying to me about her, lying about being mutually exclusive and having played games with me.

SO, as guys, do you think it is true that he wasn't cheating because we weren't official?



what i did: I cut ties with him. I was very hurt, and especially that he lied for so long. I have always told him, from the beginning of our relationship that I could forgive everything (and i've forgiven him for a lot) but I could never forgive an infidelity.

[SelflessnHumble]

Do you not see what you did (to yourself?)
He dumped you: check.
YOU: chose to become intimate with a guy who was/is single: check.

You had wanted a person (who was perfectly fine with the idea of banging you without ANY title attached to it) to basically commit ONLY to
mutually having meaningless SEX with one another: while technically being single? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

You basically wanted a liar to live a lie that was convenient (for you) because of what you had wanted: a committed relationship that wasn't going to jive with what he wanted: which is why he dumped you in the 1st place....so you feel he cheated on you: WHILE YOU TWO MADE IT CLEAR YOU HAD NO COMMITMENT???? -This makes no sense-

This is what happened:
You had an arrangement, a contract.
He breached that contract. He didn't cheat at all.
Now the ball is in your court:

IN the end: you cheated yourself out of what you knew you'd wanted to satisfy your hunger for intimacy WITHOUT a commitment because
this was all he was willing to provide you with: and you were good with that due to your "time invested into this relationship." Sound about right?

[romeo4]

i dont see any good in this guy really!!...thats the truth ,im sorry!!

[smackie9]

Cut ties....if it don't feel right, it's not. He didn't want to define your relationship because why by the cow when you can get the milk for free. When you confronted him, he just lied so he can have a steady supply of sex. Now that there is another interest, he's probably hoping you will finally cut him loose so he doesn't look likt he bad guy.

Tip: don't date friends. There isn't enough spark there to really sustain a true relationship because you already know everything about each other so that "discovery" part of courtship is missing, which helps build a connection. I see too many times people get taken advantage of when it turns into a relationship. It ends up being just freinds with benefits, then someone gets burned.

[girl68]

Nope he didn't cheat. You can't cheat if you're not in a relationship. Sorry, I think it was super stupid to sleep and be all romatic lovey dovey while saying it's all good we're not an official couple. I do think he wronged you but he definately didn't cheat on you.

[Petit Papillon]

Don't post the same thread twice, it's really annoying and against logic => Anyway people read all threads so it's not a big difference if you post it here or there. Just post it once,cause it's annoying to read the same thread 5000 times.

[Take2]

Yeah, cheating is about betraying agreed upon standards of romantic/emotional/physical behavior. It doesn't matter your official status: a married couple can agree to be open to other partners and then sex outside the marriage ISN'T cheating. You guys were not calling each otehr bf and gf but HAD agreed to be sexually exclusive, so his sex with another woman was cheating.

[mountaineer]

ok! sorry won't do it again! =)

[mountaineer]

well that's my take on it as well.

[mountaineer]

Thank you very much for your honest reply, it was indeed helpful.

While this may sound incredibly naive, I did not think that the sex we had was meaningless. Indeed because he -without my asking him - told me he loved me constantly, and told his parents I was his girlfriend, and talked about working our issues out and eventually being more serious, I thought that it was meaningful sex.

Beside whether it was meaningless to him or not, cheating involves lying, which he did.

I also think you're right about me taking what he was willing to provide because is what i wanted. It was my mistake, and I am dealing with the consequences.

[xxazurexx]

What the hell does 'mutually exlusive' mean?

IMO, you either EXCLUSIVE or you are not....no inbetween.

[SelflessnHumble]

Thank you very much for your honest reply, it was indeed helpful.

You're welcome.

While this may sound incredibly naive, I did not think that the sex we had was meaningless. Indeed because he -without my asking him - told me he loved me constantly, and told his parents I was his girlfriend, and talked about working our issues out and eventually being more serious, I thought that it was meaningful sex.

Here's a hint from a former player, manipulator, lying cheating deceitful SOB:
MEN will use sex against a woman: because they know that to a woman:
"saying I love you" and having sex to a woman means *LOVE* when in fact a man
could have sex with you while wondering if the Packers made the 1st down with 2:18 left to play!

Men use it to their advantage all the time. and women fall for it hook, line and sinker.

Beside whether it was meaningless to him or not, cheating involves lying, which he did.

I don't agree. They are synonymous with deceit: CHEATING means both of you are in a committed relationship
and one of you CHEATS or gets with/even kisses another person outside the relationship. Of course he lied, but considering how people can cheat without *telling* lies (the most common form of lying) one can exist without the other.

If we are talking about lying by omission, I completely agree with you.

I also think you're right about me taking what he was willing to provide because is what i wanted. It was my mistake, and I am dealing with the consequences.

The fact you see this speaks volumes about you, which is great!
Sure it will hurt: I agree with your pain and anger being lied to (which you were)
BUT he has shown his true colors: and as long as you see this and don't give away your sexuality:
you can move forward and find someone who values mahogany as a type of wood and monogamy
as something you don't mess with.

Take2 has some very liberal views on Marriage, but if you actually READ the vows and see what they mean:
Marriage was meant for TWO people: to be in ONE relationship, not for two people to be sexually open to others
coming and going into their bed for sexual gratification.

[Take2]

To clarify, I don't have liberal views about any marriage I am in, nor any relationship I am in. I am only willing to be sexually exclusive or not sexually involved. There is no in between.

I just don't personally care to enforce my standards on any relationship I am not personally involved in. Everyone else can work out their details for themselves. I have known polyamorous trios who seemed more happily married than many traditional couples I have known. "The vows" actually vary and many couples write their own, but they don't say that the couple cannot agree or should not agree to swing or switch or just have an open marriage, if they both want to.

[Kaius]

No such thing as cheating if there is no commitment. He is free to have sex with anyone he wants. You are free to have sex with anyone you want.
I really don't believe it is considered cheating during the dating stage, as either party can go at any time.
However, that said, each party should be honest about the situation, and allow the other party to accept or reject.