Have you ever been stalked?

[VincenzoG91]

SH, I own a translated edition of The Art of War, and I did read it cover to cover about a decade ago. I remember the basics okay, things like, when your enemy attacks, retreat, and when your enemy retreats, attack.

Over the last five weeks, my thinking has moved from trying to win back my girlfriend to simply getting her out of an abusive environment and staying in touch as a friend, with a small chance that we might get back together some day. I've been meeting up with her once a week just to boost her morale, and to try to talk details about the move, but she doesn't like to talk about the move. Finally, when I realized that she was planning on staying there until the end of the summer instead of just the end of this semester, I gave her an ultimatum today: promise to move out in May or I'm no longer interested in helping. In a lengthy series of text messages, we debated the matter, and she wouldn't budge. I was going to leave her hanging for a while, No Contact, and let her decide if she would change her mind. I fully expected her to give up on me, and I was finally okay with that.

Tonight, I went to a concert with my best friend. I bought the tickets online last January for Amy and I, but the tickets didn't arrive until after I had my first encounter with Craig. Amy and I were still planning to go to the show as friends tonight, but then she remembered a few days ago that today is also Craig's birthday. We agreed that it would be a good idea for her to stick around for his birthday plans, whatever they were. So I gave her ticket to my friend two days ago.

While at the show tonight, I received three text messages from Craig and two from Amy. I have had zero contact with Craig since January 21, the day that I heard her side of the story:

Craig at 8:12 PM:
"Mike, it's Craig. Amy tells me u continue to call and text and harass her, and how upset u were that she wasn't going to the concert tonight with u..."

Craig at 8:13 PM:
"This is the only warning that I am giving u to leave us alone and stop the harassment. Amy doesn't care about u, she just used u for a place to live and for extra money."

Craig at 8:14 PM:
"Lets not force things to get ugly, neither of us wants that."

Amy at 8:20 PM:
"You called Craig today? Why? I trusted confiding in you."

Me at 8:26 PM:
"I did not call Craig today. I haven't texted, called or spoken to him since January 21. Ask him to show you his phone."

Amy at 8:30 PM:
"He said you did and he knew about the concert."

Me at 8:44 PM:
"Ask to see it on his phone. I see that he has sent me threatening texts tonight, but I'm not responding to him. Somehow, he has been spying on you."

Anybody here still think that Craig is harmless? I believe that he has cloned her phone. He knows too much about our recent text messages, even though Amy has been deleting them from her phone.

[url=http://www.spyreview.co.uk/2009/03/03/how-to-clone-your-mobile-phone/]How To Clone Your Mobile Phone Spy Review[/url]

“And then there are people who want to spy on others for any covert reason. In this case if you clone somebody’s mobile, you can read their received and sent text messages as well as the phone numbers. You can even use the phone pretending to be the other person. If the person with the original phone is using it while you try to use the cloned one, you can eavesdrop on the conversations. People who are suspicious of their partners or spouses sometimes do this.”

[VincenzoG91]

I stayed for the whole concert. At first, my friend and I had a big laugh about the text messages. Then I felt sick to my stomach with fear for Amy, but that passed when I reflected on how she caused this entire mess. Then I called my next door neighbor and advised him of the threats and asked him to check to make the front door to our section of the building is still locked. He suggested that I park a few streets away, and said that he would call 911 if he hears anything like breaking and entering. Finally, I started to feel extreme anger towards Craig, and my friend had to calm me down and talk me out of charging over there to beat him into a coma.

I have now gone No Contact with Amy. Between GPS, phone cloning and old-fashioned following people around, I don't see any reasonable way to stay in touch. She might think that email is still secure, but I wouldn't put it past this guy to find out that he can track her keystrokes with software, too. I would like to show her the texts on my phone so that she can see that he is lying to both of us to drive a wedge between us, but for now, I think that No Contact is necessary. More than ever, I want to help her get away from the abuse so she can be safe and happy, with or without me around. But unless she is ready to move now, I think the right course of action is to wait, and then wait some more. That said, I still like the idea of breaking his skull open on the pavement. But I know that isn't the right thing to do, so I'm not going to do it.

Otherwise, I'm going to be carrying around that pepper spray, staying alert, and planning ahead. SH and Charisma, I really appreciate your recent posts (except for the shouty one), you have given me much to think about. If you have any more ideas, keep them coming.

[MerryH]

Anybody here still think that Craig is harmless?

Yes, I still think he's harmless to you. For now, at least. That response is what any guy would say to someone who he thinks is harassing his own girlfriend. It's even a lot more courteous than what a lot of boyfriends would say. It wasn't aggressive, he didn't use profanity or threats of violence. He just asked you to leave his girlfriend alone, and rightly so. I honestly can't see any reason you should be so scared of him.

But I am glad to see that you've decided to drop her. Although I think he doesn't pose a threat to you now, if you keep involving yourself in their relationship, it could get ugly. Good luck with the no contact thing. I sincerely hope you stick with it.

[VincenzoG91]

It will be ugly when he spits out fragments of his shattered teeth. He is a pathological liar, control freak and abuser. I have not harassed Amy, though I have refused to give her money recently. And I wasn't upset about her missing the show, I agreed with her that she should spend the evening with Craig. He is an idiot to lie to me about what I said. I know what I said to Amy. He has read some text messages and made guesses, some right and some wrong.

I admit that I am nervous that this guy will do something stupid to either Amy or myself. He's in the National Guard and owns a gun. He may have PTSD from his tour in Iraq. But the thing that really scares me is that I might do something to him that lands me in jail. I would lose my job and my professional license, and the fleeting sense of vengeance wouldn't be worth the years of lost freedom and income. But I have never been pushed around in my life (except by employers who paid me well), and I'm not willing to become a pushover now.

[sookie6]

. More than ever, I want to help her get away from the abuse so she can be safe and happy, with or without me around.

Vincenzo...stop with the 'Knight in shining armour' syndrome...she is sleeping with another guy everyday and everynight for all you know...does not deserve a single thought o yours...

I hope you know that your welfare is if you open yourself to other women...your attention will focus on someone else...at last.

[MerryH]

He is a pathological liar, control freak and abuser.

You have no proof of this! All you have is what Amy tells you and if you take anything that comes out of her mouth at face value, you're insane!

Earlier in the thread people were telling you, "Hey, maybe she's telling him that you're stalking her" you were like, "No, I don't think so." That text he sent you is proof that she told him something very similar to this, so he's acting in a way that you would expect a guy to react considering everything that's happened.

It is so tempting to go through your posts and refute things point by point. The way you assess all this shit amazes me. You have not been thinking rationally about any of this. You're too involved. It's like you're trying to blame him for all the shit she's put you through. You need someone to be mad at, and for whatever reason that person is Craig, when it should be Amy. You're all mixed up. Getting rid of her completely is a step in the right direction.

Why don't you text him back and just say, "Okay. You have my word that I will no longer speak to her. I hope that settles any conflict between us and that this is the last time we'll communicate. Take care." There. Done. Nothing to fight over anymore and you can move on with your life.

[sookie6]

You have no proof of this! All you have is what Amy tells you and if you take anything that comes out of her mouth at face value, you're insane!

Earlier in the thread people were telling you, "Hey, maybe she's telling him that you're stalking her" you were like, "No, I don't think so." That text he sent you is proof that she told him something very similar to this, so he's acting in a way that you would expect a guy to react considering everything that's happened.

It is so tempting to go through your posts and refute things point by point. The way you assess all this shit amazes me. You have not been thinking rationally about any of this. You're too involved. It's like you're trying to blame him for all the shit she's put you through. You need someone to be mad at, and for whatever reason that person is Craig, when it should be Amy. You're all mixed up. Getting rid of her completely is a step in the right direction.

Why don't you text him back and just say, "Okay. You have my word that I will no longer speak to her. I hope that settles any conflict between us and that this is the last time we'll communicate. Take care." There. Done. Nothing to fight over anymore and you can move on with your life.

Merry said it all...if you're looking for clarity and neutral advice...this is it...Vincenzo please there is a whole life waiting for you out there...don't waste anymore time...

[VincenzoG91]

You have no proof of this! All you have is what Amy tells you and if you take anything that comes out of her mouth at face value, you're insane!

Earlier in the thread people were telling you, "Hey, maybe she's telling him that you're stalking her" you were like, "No, I don't think so." That text he sent you is proof that she told him something very similar to this, so he's acting in a way that you would expect a guy to react considering everything that's happened.

It is so tempting to go through your posts and refute things point by point. The way you assess all this shit amazes me. You have not been thinking rationally about any of this. You're too involved. It's like you're trying to blame him for all the shit she's put you through. You need someone to be mad at, and for whatever reason that person is Craig, when it should be Amy. You're all mixed up. Getting rid of her completely is a step in the right direction.

Why don't you text him back and just say, "Okay. You have my word that I will no longer speak to her. I hope that settles any conflict between us and that this is the last time we'll communicate. Take care." There. Done. Nothing to fight over anymore and you can move on with your life.

Merry, I have a great deal of respect for your very sensible advice, but you are out of your depth here. Have you ever been stalked? As I explained, this idiot lied to me about things that I said with my own mouth. I know what I said, and I know that he's lying. I find it amazing that people here are so ignorant about domestic abuse, though I admit that I too was ignorant about such things until recently. There is a guy who knows where I live, and now he has sent me a threat by text. These are facts, and if you are so biased that you can't process facts, then you are not helpful in this matter.

[VincenzoG91]

Just received another hangup call at my work number. I have had an unusual number of hangup calls at my work number since Tuesday morning, like a total of 9 now. I'm going to assume from here on out that he knows where I work, since my voice mail greeting identifies my company.

[sookie6]

Why don't you text him back and just say, "Okay. You have my word that I will no longer speak to her. I hope that settles any conflict between us and that this is the last time we'll communicate. Take care." There. Done. Nothing to fight over anymore and you can move on with your life.

Vincenzo we hear you...but have you tried this approach at all?

[VincenzoG91]

Vincenzo we hear you...but have you tried this approach at all?

Fair question. I don't think it would necessarily work, at least not right away, because liars have trouble believing normal people. They assume that everybody else is a liar, too.

I believe that she is being abused by this guy, and I believe that she wants to leave him. Why would she say those things if she was really happy with him and planning to get married to him? I'm not giving her any more money, except that I offered to pay for anything related to leaving him, such as attorney fees, professional movers and even the cost of renting a room somewhere neutral for a few months. She doesn't want to move until she is ready to live on campus next August if her transfer goes through, so I gave her an ultimatum yesterday... move at the end of this semester or I can't help her. She refused to even promise that she would move in May, though she said she would move even sooner than that if the abuse got worse.

Anyway, the point is this: I don't turn my back on the people that I care about when they are in trouble.

If the situation isn't that bad, and she feels that she can hang out there until August, then the trouble must not be that bad, and I can move on without worrying about her. But if things are bad enough that she is ready to move out in the next three months, than I'm ready to help. It's arbitrary, but I feel that having a clear decision point and timeline will help me navigate this messy situation.

[Charisma]

I think the point that people are trying to make is that she has to put more effort into actually physically leaving him. Regardless of how much he's stalking, abusing, controlling, lying, etc, she has to be the one who leaves the situation, not by promising to leave.

There's nothing wrong at all with wanting to help someone. There isn't even anything wrong with being there for her if she does leave that guy, and giving her strong felt advice on what to do. Ultimately she has to follow through. She needs to get the guts and the preperation to do it, and with people like you around then it's gonna be easier and safer for her to do it successfully with no consequences.

The problem, even if she really is being abused and all that, is that she lied. She carried on a double life, either by choice or reluctantly, and now everything she's said has to be taken with a pinch of salt. The situation should have been resolved soon after Craig found your house by getting all 3 of you in a room to sit and talk. This didn't happen, hell Amy even avoided talking to you at first. So now, Craig is mad at you and is likely paranoid and suspicious of anything that comes out of Amy's mouth, Amy is tip toeing around both of you because the big secret is out, and you've got all this hassle and stress from just being around to help her out.

The texts have freaked me out tho, and what I'd most likely do is change your number. Of course, this probably isn't a great option for you. Either way, it's a great time for you to do a no contact moment. Whatever Amy is saying is either not convincing enough to Craig, or is a total lie and Craig has sucked it up. He's a dumb ass to keep her around, because she'll never be fully trusted, and he thinks he has to go about warning everyone away in case they are her other fiance.

[VincenzoG91]

Great points, Charisma. I think that I will keep my current number so that I can receive and archive any future contact from Craig, in case I need to get a restraining order. But this morning, I bought a cheap prepaid phone to use for now, just in case.

I won't be taking any more calls from Amy or responding to any more texts, under the assumption that he will be able to monitor that activity. If she calls my workphone from her workphone, I will advise her that her phone has probably been cloned, and offer to show her Craig's dishonest and threatening text messages, just so she knows what is really going on. Then I will give her the cheap prepaid phone so she has a way to reach people in secrecy or in case of an emergency. And then, I take a big step back from this drama. She knows that I'm ready to help her leave, and until she is ready, any additional contact is a waste of time and a potential risk.

[sweetkissesforu]

I think you are trying to be the hero and have been dubed maybe by both of them
they are sitting conspiring your so easy to believe it
if she is abused by him she wont leave until she is ready sadly this is true for most women who are abused

[sookie6]

Vincenzo I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the next thread you're opening is about you going out, meeting new people (new women) and having fun socialising...and flirting...

Please make it your next mission.