Is he only interested in sex?

[ShellyZ]

Nope. Look back through this thread, I only joined it recently. You're getting the ladies mixed up.

[Wakeup]

Perhaps he's mixing threads up.. you're certainly advocating what Heart is suggesting in the "What Do You Think About This" thread.

Even if you don't think (or believe) that you are.

[ConniptionFit]

The best person to ask what he is looking for is him.

[ShellyZ]

Perhaps he's mixing threads up.. you're certainly advocating what Heart is suggesting in the "What Do You Think About This" thread.

Um no, in that thread I'm arguing that women have the right to say no to sex whenever they want. Men have the same right. It's really very simple. Please don't bring that thread into this one, you'll confuse everyone.

[Wakeup]

As I said: "even if you don't think you are."

[davedlt]

I know. I've had wonderful relationships like this. And I've figured out a great way to get it: Take it slow, proceed with caution. I wait a long time for sex, and so I easily weed out the men who don't want a relationship.

If this is working for you then keep doing it.

I don't think anyone is suggesting playing games to get what you want.

This was the theme going on earlier in the thread.

Many people believe that a woman who waits for sex is playing games or being manipulative, but she's not. She just prefers to wait.

Some women do it because they prefer to wait, some women do it to play games and be manipulative. Some women do it because they have issues around sex. Some women do it because they are frightened of not having a commitment. Some women do it because they have found that works best for them for whatever reason.

It is not the physical act of waiting for sex which is being manipulative. It is the intention you have when you do it, if your intention is to be manipulative. I know some women who go the other way. They think the best way to manipulate a guy is to rush into sex early on and then pretend that now he has an obligation to her to be committed and exclusive to her because she had sex with him. You can use anything to be manipulative, and the same thing you could be doing without the intention of being manipulative.

Deserve sex? It's not a reward for good behavior. It's something to be shared between two people. It's not like "Here, you've been good, so I'll give you sex now."

Exactly - my point about mutual sharing. You both want to do it so you do it. Where low self-esteem snakes its way in is where someone believes for some reason they DON'T deserve something.

Everyone? I've known some truly terrible people who have done horrible things. I don't think they deserve to get whatever they want.

This is another long complicated discussion, so I won't go into all the details now. But all the people who have done horrible things have done them out of low self-esteem, and this has come by them believing that they don't deserve what they want. So it was because they believed that they don't deserve to get what they want in the first place that led them to feel so bad about themselves and life that they did the horrible things.

If you take rape for example, people don't rape other people when they are feeling really good about themselves and love themselves and the world and everything in it. What is not understood is what causes the majority of rapes is that some guy finds that he feels sexual attraction towards girls, and people keep telling him that he is wrong for feeling that way and having sex with girls is wrong and bad and disrespectful and he shouldn't dare presume that he is attractive enough for the girls he finds attractive and that these girls are so much better and nicer and purer than him and if he had sex with them then he would be defiling them, while they would be doing him a favour. So he ends up feeling a lot of shame around his sexual desires and then he starts hating women for being so much better than him. So the emotional pain builds up like water in a dam until the point where it gets too hard to handle and it becomes the only solution to burst out and rape a girl, both releasing his sex drive and defiling this girl he hates in one go.

If this guy never had those beliefs in the first place. If he knew that it was all right to have sex with girls whenever he wanted and it is not defiling them and they are not better or worse than him, he wouldn't have gotten to the point where he lashed out and raped a girl. He would have had happy, mutually sexual relationships instead. So believing someone doesn't deserve to get what they want is adding fuel to the fire.

I don't think it's hard to find an honest person, I just think it's hard to determine if a person is honest or dishonest when you've just met. You can't tell right away, you have to get to know them first.

I guess I have the advantage of knowing straight away when someone is lying. That has come from my job being to know what someone is really thinking behind all the BS they tell me. But no, seriously, I agree that it is a good idea to give yourself time to get to know someone, in other points as well as honesty.

The problem is, most people don't wait long enough to discover their partner's true personality. This is an advantage of waiting for sex. I know the guy is honest BEFORE we have sex, because we've gotten to know each other first. I like it that way. No one is being punished or manipulated, and everyone is happy.

If everyone is happy then it is working for you. If waiting for sex is an advantage for you, then keep waiting. It is not an advantage for everyone though. For myself, to have an ongoing relationship instead of a one night stand, one important factor is that we are sexually compatible and she does not have any issues around sex. The quicker we have sex, the sooner I find all that out. If we have sex really early on and she has a lot of fun and lets herself go, I know she doesn't have too many issues around sex, and she sees sex the same way I do. This means we are compatible, at least in the sexual area. I don't do committed relationships, but if I was going to commit to one girl, I would never make the commitment without first knowing that we are sexually compatible and that she has no issues around sex.

Those qualities come from respect - both for yourself and for the other person. I am completely incapable of lying to my wife, even a lie of omission, because I have far too much respect for her to lie.

Respect for yourself and others. Real respect, one that you feel and are motivated to give, not respect out of obligation, comes as a result of high self-esteem. No exceptions.

Even if you don't think (or believe) that you are.

It is good that Wakeup understands the factor that a lot of what people think and say they think, is not what they are really subconsciously believing. That is why it is my job to find out for people what they really believe and change those beliefs, when they don't know that that is what they were subconsciously believing. I have to know how someone really thinks better than they do.

I could point out all the subconscious beliefs people in this thread have, especially around men and women, and sex, and relationships, but that would open up another 783 cans of worms (plus probably offend a few), so I will leave that for now (but I am tempted to in another thread going on...).

[Simonsaysyes]

He wants to be a "special friend"