Help me, Is My Problem With Women What I Think It Is?

[TheSingleGuy]

I have been EXTREMELY frustrated over the last few years and I am just now thinking I've figured out my problem. Would really like to get some female input. I realize without meeting me in person, it will be nearly impossible. But I will post here and hope for help.

The background: My ex-wife divorced me 4.5 years ago. At the time, I was for a fact a bad husband. I didn't take care of myself. I was pale skinned, over weight, my teeth were stained yellow from coffee. I had gum disease issues. I think I was up to a size 40 in pants at the waist. I'd go months between hair cuts. My toe nails were curled around the front of my toes. Nasty, white callouses all over my heals and toes. I didn't spend money on stylish clothes. I wore my shirts tucked in and usually wore work boots around all the time. My self confidence was lower than low. I avoided social scenes like the plague. I was very shy. I talked with a nasal, beta-male voice tone. My income was horrible, as I was starting a business. I made $10,000 three years prior to our divorce and $20,000 the next. The year of our divorce, I plowed all the cash flow back into the business, so my income amounted to $0. I was addicted to porn. I ignored my wife. Towards the end, we would only have sex once or twice a year. I don't think we had sex the last year of the marriage. My idea of sex was no foreplay, just stick it in and start thrusting, and maybe during halftime of the NFL game with the TV on so I wouldn't miss any of the third quarter. (I just didn't know any better.)

The improvement: I don't recognize myself anymore. I'm a completely different person. My friends agree. My business has turned the corner in a huge way. My income is in the top 1%. I've worked very, very hard to make myself more attractive to women. I bought e-books on self improvement. I changed my voice (soar throats for weeks to do this btw) to a more deep, masculine tone. (Women tell me my voice is sexy all the time.) My clothes are very stylish now. I keep my skin tanned. I get a hair cut every 2-2.5 weeks. I shave every day. My teeth are white and I get them laser whitened once a year. I get pedicures twice a month. Luckily, I have a full head of hair with no gray. I've been hitting the gym for the last 4+ years, I have six pack abs. I'm very proud of my body now. Women tell me I'm handsome, hot, sexy...I get this all the time...and I have gotten this for the last few years. Women tell me I'm good in bed and I believe them based on the wetness of the sheets before penetration. In a nutshell, my value on the mating market has skyrocketed. There is just no doubt in my mind.

The Confidence: I think my self confidence is finally starting to catch up with my outward appearance. Finally. It has been a very, very slow process. Women say they are more attracted to a man's personality than any thing else and confidence is a huge component of that. I think my confidence is finally...or at least getting... to where I want it to be. There is a fine line between confidence and cocky. Cocky is a huge turn off for most women. The last girl who slept with me said she thought I was cocky and arrogant but because she got to know me, she knows I'm not. There is something about my body language that is communicating cocky and arrogant. Even though, on the inside, I'm still somewhat afraid of what others think...seeking others approval. Like I say, my self confidence is way better now, but I don't want to come off as cocky or arrogant. Truth be told, I am still a somewhat shy person.

The Problem: The only women I am dating are women who I'm not really attracted to. They are either over weight or just not that beautiful. One of the girls I was dating a year ago, told me that I should be dating a 10. I am sorry to say it ladies, but men are attracted to looks first and foremost. God just made us this way, I can't help it. I realize beauty is only skin deep, but I want a girlfriend that I'm physically attracted to. But to this day, this still eludes me. I have been trying like mad to figure out why the beautiful women always blow me off and the less attractive ones don't. The uglier women will go out on dates with me, they don't flake, they answer the phone when I call. They text me all the time. They invite me to things. They show massive interest. They manufacture reasons to spend time with me. The beautiful women are 100% polar opposite.

I am certain, it's not that I don't have enough attraction value to get a beautiful woman. I am 100% certain of that.

I was reading a men's forum the other day, and one of the dating coach guru's said something that has me really thinking. He said with women, you have to set the expectation for them from the beginning. In other words, communicate to them that I see you as a potential friend with benefits or I see you as a potential girlfriend. That way, she knows how to behave in a manner that is pleasing and attractive to the guy. The whole friend with benefits thing isn't something I'm really interested in, to be honest. I want a good girlfriend. But ultimately, that's what I've got...a bunch of less attractive friends with benefits.

My Theory: Since I read that on the forum, I have been giving myself and my situation a lot of thought. This is what I'm starting to theorize: A woman meets me. Likes me. Is attracted to me. We exchange numbers. Now, if she's got a fairly obvious beauty flaw, such as...50 pounds over weight with a double chin...she can easily look at me and look at her and see that we just don't match. She realizes there is no way she's gonna get me into a committed relationship. So she goes out with me but puts me in the "friends" category within her female brain. Somehow, she thinks this will protect her from getting hurt, and, hopefully, she doesn't end up getting hurt.

When the same thing happens to a much more beautiful woman, the kind of woman I'd ultimately like to be with, she doesn't know which category she's going in to. I haven't been communicating this up front, I really don't know how to. So she blows me off because she wants to avoid getting hurt.

Ultimately, I think the women are trying to figure out if I'm "catch-able". If there is too much doubt in her mind, she runs to protect herself. When there is an obvious beauty flaw, she realizes I am uncatch-able and somehow checks her emotions at the door and goes out with me anyway. She knows we're not gonna end up as boyfriend/girlfriend.

Evidence To Support My Theory: My ex-girlfriend, on and off, over the last two years, told me that when we first started dating, ALL of her friends told her not to go out with me. They told her she would just get hurt.

A few weeks ago, I met this girl at a bar that I was super attracted to. She ended up coming home with me that night (no sex). I wanted to see her again, but she totally blew me off. I remember her saying, after we got to my house, something along the lines of "There is no way I can fall for you."

Two of the women who really hurt me, who I pursued for months only to get blown off, both of them, at one time or another, had their female friends call to ask me "What are your intentions with _________". (I had no idea how to answer that question so I guess I screwed it up.)

Over and over this pattern repeats: If she's beautiful, and someone I'd really be interested in dating, she blows me off and breaks my heart. If she's not, she'll go out with me and show me tons of interest.

Does my theory make any sense?

Or should I continue to psycho-analyze myself to figure out if my confidence is still lacking such that I seem attractive to less beautiful women, because I don't care as much, but I am acting nervous and insecure around the more attractive women that I'd actually like to date? (Honestly, I think that used to be a problem but not so much any more.)

All input is appreciated.

[tremolo]

Perhaps there's something to your theory. I don't know. Clearly there is something about you that makes women hesitant to get into a relationship.

It's obvious that your primary goal right now is to get yourself an attractive girlfriend. And, naturally, that's what every guy wants. But I wonder just what kind of women you're trying to get? Are you only considering perfect 10s, or are your expectations more reasonable?

[DannyH]

Its your self confidence. I can tell just by how you worded it. "I think my self confidence is finally". If that's how you actually feel your not being confident your acting it which is why some women think you come off as cocky. It's awesome that your changed your life up like that and your almost there once you change that mindset from thinking your confident to being confident.

[TheSingleGuy]

+++Its your self confidence. I can tell just by how you worded it. "I think my self confidence is finally".+++

I doubt it. I am pretty self confident these days. Way more so than before the divorce. Ultimately, these beautiful women are gonna end up dating humans, and looking at my self confidence with other human guys as the measuring stick, I can't see how that could be the issue at all. My self confidence is well above average these days.

Would it make any difference if I mentioned that one of the girls who told me I should be with a 10 is one of the attractive girls who broke my heart and blew me off?

Looking back on the two girls who broke my heart and blew me off, recently, I am almost fairly certain that both just didn't know which category I wanted them in and so they blew me off. That's why they had their friends call to ask the question specifically (which I obviously failed to answer correctly).

Maybe I should call them and ask them. It would be awkward as hell, but I've thought about it.

I've always been scared of bringing up any relationship talk early on because I've talked to attractive women...and read about it too...who say that they are bored to tears with guys who want to date them and marry them and guys who are a non-challenge. Women want a challenge but maybe if they see sooooo many attraction points in one guy, they automatically assume the challenge is at hand??? Very confusing for me.

++++Are you only considering perfect 10s, or are your expectations more reasonable?++++

No, not at all. Any woman I'd rate an 8, 8.5 or higher would be great for me. She doesn't have to be perfect. I just want to have a lot of physical attraction with my next girlfriend. All the women I'm seeing and have dated previously would probably be rated an average of 6.5 to 7 by most guys.

[DannyH]

Now that I got a little more time I'll get in to a few other points.

Your settling for less then what you want.
Right there is a big issue. That's like sabotaging your own happiness. protecting yourself from rejection.
Again if your settling thats really not being confident.

Your putting women your attracted to on a pedestal.
The way you said it its like your putting them on a pedestal making women your attacted out of reach for you to get. Your still thinking like a beta.

"Ultimately, I think the women are trying to figure out if I'm "catch-able". If there is too much doubt in her mind, she runs to protect herself. When there is an obvious beauty flaw, she realizes I am uncatch-able and somehow checks her emotions at the door and goes out with me anyway. She knows we're not gonna end up as boyfriend/girlfriend." That is by far one of the most cockiest thing I have heard anybody say ever. straight up narcissistic. The way you talk about yourself narcissistic. It's all good to have a little pride about yourself but damn your coming off like you think your god's gift to women then when they don't want you because of what they see its because they are scared to be hurt? I'm so awesome women that beautiful are scared to be with me but "ugly" women aren't. That just screams run the f away.

I mean if I see somebody who has that sort of range of thought I wonder what the women see? In you I don't see a well adjusted man. I see a guy who doesn't like himself all that much, that puts material things over everything else. Money clothes and all that good stuff do help if you have the personal and right mindset to go with it.

[TheSingleGuy]

See, that's what I was afraid of. I don't think meeting me via a description of myself is the right way to handle this. The problem is, when I try to describe my attraction points over text like this, it comes off as arrogant and cocky. Maybe I'm bad with writing, maybe there's no way to explain my attractive qualities without coming off as try hard and cocky.

I promise, if you came into my house, saw my lifestyle, saw me, met me, you'd assume I was dating only 9's and 10's. That would totally be your assumption. It just isn't happening in my life, for whatever reason.

I'll call the therapist tomorrow. Maybe a female who meets me in person could pin point my problem with accuracy. I am guessing this will help. I don't know what else to do.

[DannyH]

How you write something is a good way to know a person. It's always gonna be more about the how you wrote it and not the actual content because of the filter that people use when they sit and write things down because they have a chance to think before it comes out.

"I promise, if you came into my house, saw my lifestyle, saw me, met me, you'd assume I was dating only 9's and 10's. That would totally be your assumption. It just isn't happening in my life, for whatever reason"
No because I do not look at women the same way you do. You rate them on a scale of 1 - 10. I go by if I am attracted to them or not. I wouldn't compare them but saying such and such is uglier then the next one. I would go
I am more attracted to her then the other. Saying the same exact thing but in a different way. I would assume however that you would have women that you are attracted to.

No it is not badly written at all. I would even print this whole thing out and bring it with you.

[IndiReloaded]

Maybe you should be searching for an '8' who has other qualities that you might find mutually appealing. Have you made a list of the things you are looking for in a partner?

BTW, just to rule it out, but how do you feel about your wife? How did she rate on your scale?

[MerryH]

See, that's what I was afraid of. I don't think meeting me via a description of myself is the right way to handle this. The problem is, when I try to describe my attraction points over text like this, it comes off as arrogant and cocky. Maybe I'm bad with writing, maybe there's no way to explain my attractive qualities without coming off as try hard and cocky.

You're all like, Guys, I'm really not arrogant or cocky. Maybe I'm bad with writing, but:

I promise, if you came into my house, saw my lifestyle, saw me, met me, you'd assume I was dating only 9's and 10's. That would totally be your assumption. It just isn't happening in my life, for whatever reason.

You ARE arrogant and cocky. All of your posts are saturated with it. Maybe you turn people off with that. That's not such a stretch, is it?

Stop measuring yourself against others, stop reading dumbass online literature about what women think, stop trying to analyze people. Relax. Go with it.

[Bonfire]

I am sorry to say it ladies, but men are attracted to looks first and foremost. God just made us this way, I can't help it. I realize beauty is only skin deep, but I want a girlfriend that I'm physically attracted to. But to this day, this still eludes me.

Here's a thought. God also made women with the desire to find a great man. Women want the real thing. They don't want a poser who is trying to play the part of a good catch. Women are pretty intuitive. Given enough time, they'll figure out the real gold from the fake gold. That's my theory.

[surfhb]

Pffsstt...LOL Your theory is whacked and arrogant

I hate to say it bro but your writing screams "Im a Beta Male" Your lack of self confidence is very evident....thats why these girl blew you off.....just my opinion though. These girls are good looking which gives them plenty of options. Once they get to know your lack of self esteem (no matter how slight)...shes out the door.

The reason I say this is because someone with a true sense of self worth would never been over analyzing such a topic on a public forum.

Here's a thought. God also made women with the desire to find a great man. Women want the real thing. They don't want a poser who is trying to play the part of a good catch. Women are pretty intuitive. Given enough time, they'll figure out the real gold from the fake gold. That's my theory.

Yep! Women have a sixth sense for poserness. Be yourself and be fun. I'd also be willing to bet your not dating 9 and 10 since you find them "unapproachable"? You put these girls on pedestals....yes? Less attractive women are less threatening? Although there's one generality that is true.....better looking women are bigger pains in the ass.

Just relax and go out to have a good time....if you go with the intention of having a good time and no motive other than that, it will help you out.

Another thing.....only 2 girls blew you off? Thats it? You need to date more my friend.........and what is this 6 6.5 8 8.5 bullshit!! Cmon Bro!

[oldskool83]

1st off i wouldnt even go there with placing a women on a number scale. thats just stupid im my mind. it kinda seems like you want to use the hottest women to boost your ego status. personaly i could careless. I'll like who i like, no numbers on them. dont be a tool, just find a cute girl who likes your and be happy. whats wrong with that.

[TheSingleGuy]

Trust me, I'm not so socially stupid that I would ever say the things I've said in this thread with real people in real life. Seriously. Who the f*** would do that? Give me some friggin' credit, folks.

"Look at me. I'm hot. I'm rich. Why won't you go out on a date with me? What the hell is wrong with you?" ---As if anyone would say something that stupid in real life. C'mon!!!

That's why I'm gonna call a female therapist to get help with this. I won't have to tell her anything, she can see it for herself. She can analyze my body language, my voice tone, my eye contact...everything. I think a woman would be able to tell me what my issue is right away.

Honestly, I think it's the issue of the placement with these women. They don't know how to behave, in what role do I see them? FWB or girlfriend.

Doesn't that go through a woman's mind when she meets a new guy? I mean, like, if she wants to be the girlfriend and possible wife in the future, there is one way to act but if she's just gonna be a FWB she needs to act a different way? I mean, just me, but if a girl is up for a FWB relationship she isn't wife material for me. Just my own personal thing. I've got a whole laundry list of criteria for a potential wife. But if she won't even go on a date with me, I'll never know. Generally speaking, the better looking ones won't.

Yes, I rate women on a scale of one to ten. Most guys do. Of course I never tell the women how I rate them...I'm not that stupid. It's just a number in a guy's mind. I don't apologize for that.

[DannyH]

This is why therapists ask questions like is the glass half empty or half full. Not to know the answer but how the answer comes out. When people write about themselves they do not want to believe they are imperfect. You remartks are arrogant and cocky but I do not see them making you arrogant or cocky becausae of how it is written. You wrote it as if you are unsure of your self. You go and settle for women you are not attracted to. That is protecting your self against pain. Which again points to self confidence being low. You change focus of the blame of not being able to hook up with women your attracted on the wrong source. You blame them for having issues. Another sign of low confidence.

Now you want to go to a female therapist and not talk and have them figure you out without speaking? You said you can get numbers and what not and get them back to your place that means your body language eye contact voice gets their attention attracting them to you. That is not the problem. The problem is your confidence is an act. They spend a little time with you and they see that. Which is why they will run.

You just need more practice getting out of your safe zone and need to stop protecting yourself as much from getting hurt. Every single post you write has the same things in it. Your unsure of yourself and your trying to prove yourself and us wrong.

[surfhb]

.....and who indicated you would literally say what you've been talking about in this thread to a lady?

You don't need to. You might as well wear a sign saying " I'm a manipulative person with low self confidence.". No offense but that's what Your writing screams to everyone posting on this thread.

I was the same way in my 20s. It took practice and therepy for me to get out of my shell.