Do I have a disorder

[MynameisJesus]

I wonder. Not to give myself a label, but to figure out what I can do to change.

I gave up writing endless threads about women I was in love with, or even obsessed with to be honest.
It's a thin line sometimes. There are women that I banned from my life because feelings kept coming back. For someone I haven't even dated but I could have had or wanted to have. Yet after many months with no contact, an intimate picture of them making out with their lovers is enough to ruin my evening.

I am sexually very attracted to some women. It messes with my head and it confuses me. I don't think it's love but I think about it very often.
Even though I have this strong desire for physical contact, I am extremely afraid of giving in to it. As if giving in is offensive or dangerous.

If I hadn't been so nervous on all these occasions, I would probably be a happy man instead of an insecure 25 year old virgin.

Is there anything I can do to get rid of the extreme anxiety? I am thinking of taking NLP courses to become a more confident man

[valmont]

those nlp methods always seem to be missing the boat for me...i watch 10-15 minutes of a video it's like...uhhhh

you could try david deangelos "man transformation"...it's about 40 hours long...it didn't change my life or anything but it did help...and it probably could have if 100% effort was put in.

i feel exactly the way you do...except i've slept with a fair share of women...but they usually aren't the ones i'm super attracted to.

[MynameisJesus]

those nlp methods always seem to be missing the boat for me...i watch 10-15 minutes of a video it's like...uhhhh

you could try david deangelos "man transformation"...it's about 40 hours long...it didn't change my life or anything but it did help...and it probably could have if 100% effort was put in.

i feel exactly the way you do...except i've slept with a fair share of women...but they usually aren't the ones i'm super attracted to.

I have a coach to work at myself, and she says that intensive NLP courses have turned her life upside down. From being a semi depressed insecure person to a dominant strong happy woman. She said it would work for me too but it's intensive and expensive (7k for a 2 year program)
It's not a short term video watching program though. It is a very intensive group therapy, including both theory and practice.

The challenges she went through are extreme. Dancing made her insecure and her exam at the end of the course was to dance on a stage in front of dozens of viewers. Not something you went through watching videos I assume. NLP is conditioning which takes a lot of time. It's a process

I have probably listened to any personal growth audio files on the market. The mindset you should have to be dating.
Just because you understand doesn't mean you are actually applying it naturally. " Stop caring " is easier said than done. I do try, however.

You may be able to relate to my feeling, but if you are not a virgin it's probably different.

[valmont]

ok, good luck

[Gypsybell]

So I have no idea what NLP stands for in American folklore, but assume it is yet another self help technique? I am from OZ and a great grandmother of 11. So, no, I'm not a virgin. But I was once and I still recall the intensity of young love (or should I say 'randy hormones'), plus I know, too, what suppression of those natural instincts was like, since females of my day were expected to 'save it' for the wedding night. Even more relevantly, I recall the dreadful let down and years of confused frustration because the wedding night not only didn't relieve the hormones but killed romantic illusion as well. Then along came successive childbirth and all the other things that we use to substitute for the dream of being fulfilled by the object(s) of our sexual desires. And since vibrators weren't sold at the corner store or even in the vocabulary, I know about burying the urge etc. (and the destruction of eventual explosion!)

So the answer to your question is 'no, you do not have a disorder'. But you are on the way to a behavioural quirk that erodes confidence and spontanaeity, thus sets a barrier in your mind that age will cement, and the road back to sharing physical release with a real (and just as vulnerable ) person will become more and more blown up in your mind and therefore more dificult. You are afraid of losing control and having somebody witness it. Your don't even consider that the other person has the same feelings and you know nothing about mutual caring and loving trust because your emotions to date have been all about you. this is a selfish, selfserving mindset.

basically you need to find a girl you care about more than yourself and get past this childish stage. ie, attempt 'love' and allow the overwhelming uge for physical union to be part of that love. That's the goal, but you have a way to go before you get there. Intimate expression is your life force, so you better stop expecting miracles and get down to a spot of self truth if you really want to change. The alternative is a lifetime of furtive playing with yourself in the cupboard.

At 25, your celibacy is now a life pattern and you have practiced suppression of your natural uges (as many females and priests etc do) or else assigned them to self masturbation and evermore unrealistic yardsticks to guage your own 'normality' by. I can tell you don't trust that a real woman could handle 'the intensity' of your virginal desires. You may even think there's something shameful about 'wanting it' because 'it' is now a volcanic mountain in your mind and you're afraid you'll ...er... pardon the pun... BLOW and do all kinds of damage. Physicaly? to the woman? or just to your ego and confidence? because you are a man now and getting ever more worried about what a man's performance should be, true? Be aware that if you do actually have fear of an urge to inflict pain, then you still are not criminally mad (because you DON'T DO ANYTHING) but you could be developing a fetish, just to complicate your virginal confusion.

(and of course you would benefit from professional counselling, but since I am a counsellor of adolescent development, you could try a few helpful ideas based on taking some steps you missed out on)

Firstly, LOSE THE VIRGINITY mindset! Really, I have read your other threads and you do daily pornogrphy assisted masturbation (according to your posts) so you are no virgin, just an introverted porn junkie, afraid to try the real thing in case you don't come up to expectation. (or it dosen't) Gone is the shy teenager, so tha's no excuse now. You need to desensitize your false illusions as well as your penile performance. Illusions first. No virgin ever gives a good performance, that's a given, so of course the first time will ...er... suck. You would have been all over that if you'd bumbled through it as an awkward teen, but for whatever reason, you didn't.

So that's the first hurdle. You are no longer a virgin you just haven't penetrated a woman's vagina yet. Get on with it. Fear is no excuse any more, of course you'll make a hash of it the first time. So don't make it so important you'll never get over the failure ( early ejaculation, phizzer erection, whatever... ) You don't have to be in love, just with a consenting other. If you can do a 180% turn and suddenly be your real self with a girl you care about then that's the ideal, but there are many other options, including a sex therapist or a hooker. What about a Cougar? (No, I'm not into physical tuition, but many mature women are).

You know what's out there, you've been obsessesed with it long enough. Stop peeping and judging others for what you actually know nothing about and go get the feel of a real woman. You'll be hooked after the first feel of the incredible diference! It's like stage fright, embrace the bloopers, laugh for the sheer joy of of beating your worst hangup and go for it! you will worry no more. A horny, virile 25 yr old is the average girl's dream! I wish you well.

[Gypsybell]

PS. I meant to say "providing you can foget about your own 'coming' Jezus, and learn how to give the girl an orgasm BEFORE you penetrate, then you can be sure they'll forgive you ANY other bloopers." Take it from me, the male penis is not the main instrument of our satisfaction, that's just another phallacy!

[MerryH]

Before you go the NLP route, do some research into its criticisms. It doesn't exactly have the best reputation.

The issues you mentioned are not uncommon. Maybe you should attempt some tried-and-true therapy before anything else.

[MynameisJesus]

Thanks for the extensive reply, gypsybell.

The key issue in all this is my ego indeed. Not because I think so highly of myself, but because my ego is already damaged and I wouldn't want it to get damaged more by failing and having a girl running away from me and laughing at me from the start.
I don't know what affection feels like. I've never even had a warm hug from someone. I've also grown up with a mother I hated and I'm not sure if that plays a role in all this. Putting affection into practice is a complete new territory for me

I've given in to my loving feelings for a woman 3 times and got rejected in all 3. " You are such a nice guy but.."
The last one never talked to me again and I was the public laughing stock in college. It's really not easy to do something your consider very hard, if you get punished for doing it instead of being rewarded.
A close friend of mine has some trauma because he completely failed in his attempt to lose his virginity. Not something I am looking forward to.
And from experience I know that 80% of women will run away in case they find out about my virginity.

You may even think there's something shameful about 'wanting it' because 'it' is now a volcanic mountain in your mind and you're afraid you'll ...er... pardon the pun... BLOW and do all kinds of damage. Physicaly? to the woman? or just to your ego and confidence? because you are a man now and getting ever more worried about what a man's performance should be, true?

Not physically, but emotionally. In the past I was considered a friend by women I was in love with. Telling them about my true intentions never lead to a good result, on the contrary. It had ruined the "friendship" we had and somehow I kept thinking they were offended.
But yes, the main issue is probably my ego.

About stage fright. My attempts to change the pattern are constantly being whitnessed (ridiculized?) by friends and family, which makes it very hard for me to calm down on the dating scene. There was a girl I liked down the street. I kept it for myself and on the next family gathering my sister found it interesting to make fun of me for being interested in her. She assumed that because we hung out twice a week. I don't like my sister at all and I never discuss feelings with her, but she enjoyed making fun of it. Also my father found it necessary to make fun of it and told her parents that he thinks I was interested in her. I found out via the girl and I verbally destroyed my dad to the extent that we didn't speak to each other for 3 days. He loves to ridiculize it but then denies it in my face. The wuss. Sexuality has always been ridiculized and looked down on by my parents and it makes it hard for me. I remember being laughed at by family members because my dad found out I was watching porn when I was 15. As if sexuality is a joke.
I hate it and I wanted to make it very clear that he should stay miles away from my lovelife. Especially if he thinks he should ridiculize it this way

When I hang out in clubs and approach women, my friends are constantly spectating it and interfering with it. It is literally destroying my chances.
I dealt with virginity pretty well but it has become such a big thing for anyone who knows me personally that I can't just go out and be cool with it

[Mona_B]

Well, maybe you need to go out alone or with other friends. Why do you hang out with your friends if you want to meet girls if you know they are going to ruin it for you?

[searock]

Your issues clearly stem from way back into your childhood/adolescence. I think therapy would help you a lot in dealing with your problems.

Also, you can't do anything about your family (it's what you got), but you can about your "friends". You are supposed to feel comfortable and confident around them, not made fun of and insecure. Find yourself new, actual, friends.

[Gypsybell]

At the risk of repeating myself, it is the the virgin hangup that's just making a mystery/mountain of it all and you need to end the mystery. Stop being everybodies entertainment, the minute you lose the tag they will stop taking ringside seats to abserve the feature film you've made of it.

And you have have worked yourself into such a state of anxiety over it that there is little chance of making it a romantic experience. So at least redeem your right to a private deflowering and find a sex therapist (or sex worker) and just get it over with. You, and you alone are causing your own misery simply by allowing yourself to be a target for ridicule.

You may not enjoy the first experience, but at least you won't be anybodies disappointment (so you won't have to add that to your self pity bag of downers) and actually, the sooner you experience the reality of what soulless sex (like porn) DOESN'T do for you the better, since you have created your world around it. If you are not 'in love' with the person, then you won't have the same acuteness of emotional involvement, thus no emotional scars. And they have the professional experience to avoid a bad outcome. At this point, you just need to learn the mechanics of shared performance in order to have more confidence in your ability to please a girl you care about ( in some cultures a concubine is mandatory education before marriage) Providing parties consent, there is no shame in this arrangement. House wives have traded their bodies for shelter since time began. Plus, if you want to know how to please a woman then you should ask a woman, men rarely get that right.

Yes! I KNOW it's not easy to overcome a phobia! But that is the only way to get past all the crap you are going through . Unless you consider joining a Monastry! )Or aquire the maturity to keep your intimate details off everybodies front page. And, by the way, Talking to a priest about all this is a very good way to get compassionate guidance from some one who knows! and that's what you need, face to face exposure of your intimate fears in an appropriate manner,(or therapy) not at the kitchen table for your family to ridicule. This forum was a good start, but you are just going round in circles now. Time for progress.

What's worse, a few minutes of acute embarrassment or a lifetime of being a target for jokes? Grow up, lad, your father is treating you like a boy because you behave like an adolescent around females. And the older you get the more ridiculous you will become. Its `YOUR problem (no matter how you care to blame others for causing it) you have to fix it. If you can't do it without help then get help. Just stop wanking and DO IT.

[bcgirl]

Even though I have this strong desire for physical contact, I am extremely afraid of giving in to it. As if giving in is offensive or dangerous.

Were you raised very strict and religious? Was your mother a big part of your childhood growing up and was she strict and crazy? You don't need to answer this one... but did you have any sexual thought growing up about your mother?

I sense that your childhood plays a big part in why you are the person you are today. I suggest therapy to help you cope with your past and how you view women. It is unhealthy to obsess over particular women the way you do. Many men who's had psychological stresses from particularly their mother will have sexual psychological disorders when they are adults. You need to deal with this first... not saying that you'll turn out to do crime. But most rapists, pedophiles, sexual predators have a childhood that involves a sexual trauma or witnessed sexual stuff happening to their mother as a child.

[MynameisJesus]

This forum was a good start, but you are just going round in circles now. Time for progress.

Amen to that. Rubbing my penis against someones leg to turn her on and get it over with is kind of weird to me though. Yet it is what many guys do

What's worse, a few minutes of acute embarrassment or a lifetime of being a target for jokes? Grow up, lad, your father is treating you like a boy because you behave like an adolescent around females. And the older you get the more ridiculous you will become. Its `YOUR problem (no matter how you care to blame others for causing it) you have to fix it. If you can't do it without help then get help. Just stop wanking and DO IT.

That's like asking: What's worse? A lifetime of living with 1 arm, or pissing on an electric wire?
Pissing on the electric wire is worse in the short run but it's no big deal once it's over. However, I'm not looking forward to it.
Making love should be exciting in a positive way. Not an act of anxiety that should be over as soon as possible. Even though I am a virgin, I wouldn't want my first time to be a complete failure with some bar whore who had been drinking too much that evening.

Not only do I have to get rid of the stigma, but I also have to change my mindset which is what I am doing every day.
Even though I have these obsessive thoughts every now and then, I don't give in to them.

I agree with " Do it ". But I can't just go to a nightclub, pull down her pants and penetrate. I'd be proud of a kiss and I hope the rest will follow naturally

[MynameisJesus]

Were you raised very strict and religious? Was your mother a big part of your childhood growing up and was she strict and crazy? You don't need to answer this one... but did you have any sexual thought growing up about your mother?

I sense that your childhood plays a big part in why you are the person you are today. I suggest therapy to help you cope with your past and how you view women. It is unhealthy to obsess over particular women the way you do. Many men who's had psychological stresses from particularly their mother will have sexual psychological disorders when they are adults. You need to deal with this first... not saying that you'll turn out to do crime. But most rapists, pedophiles, sexual predators have a childhood that involves a sexual trauma or witnessed sexual stuff happening to their mother as a child.

My parents are not very religious but I grew up with a wrong vision about what's good or bad, and sexuality as if it is a disgrace. My dad is an anxious control freak too. If any nudity was on tv, parents would always get mad and "turn that crap off". Relationships and sexual awareness were never ever mentioned during these 25 years. The only thing I remember about it is embarrasment and being laughed at. I could get into it but that would fall into the category of self pity and seeking excuses. It doesn't change anything either

I never ever had any sexual feelings about my mother. On the contrary, she is simply unattractive. Both me and my sister have no bond with her at all. Our childhood consisted of affection by dad, but a cold and distant mother. We simply don't connect. There's also a clear lack of intelligence that doesn't allow us to have deep conversations about any subject. Personal issues have always been hidden for my mother (by dad) because she'd get mad and dramatize. I don't know if that explains anything though.

Yes, paedophiles and all those other horrible creatures you mentioned have issues with sexuality. They also share some type of frustration but I don't. I have low self esteem but I don't blame women for this situation. Ted Bundy once stated that all serial killers share a passion for porn. I am a frequent porn viewer too, but that doesn't mean that the same dynamics run inside my head.

[bulrush]

My attempts to change the pattern are constantly being whitnessed (ridiculized?) by friends and family,

So don't do that around your friends and family.

When I hang out in clubs and approach women, my friends are constantly spectating it and interfering with it.

So don't go to clubs with those friends. Real friends support you. These friends are not supportive. Plus people in your age group are typically self-centered, immature, and judgemental. This is a tough age for you to be.

I guess I had some similar issues. I was just shy and lacked confidence. Being forced to take a speech class in college really helped me, because I saw other people who were just as terrified of making speeches as I was. But we were all MADE to make 3 speeches in this one class. No one was perfect, but we all passed. And I think we learned from it.

Then in my job I was forced to make presentations to people 1 or more levels above my pay grade, even to Senior VPs. Of course I was nervous my first few times, but I did more of them, and got better.

Just practice. Practice a lot. And if you fail, don't give up.