Mind Expansion 101

[bohemiandonut]

The debate goes on and on over whether truth exists. As humans, we are allowed to believe, or say we believe, in anything we want. This gives us a great global diversity, just look at the colorful Muslims and Catholics, the rowdy but lovable Marxists, and who could forget the KKK? It also graces us with devout atheists, wars, and terrorism. Isn't free will great? I especially love that no matter how doubtful or insecure I am on the inside, you can't know, because I won't tell you. Ha!

It also makes morality appear to be nothing but a symptom of cultural conditioning. This is kind of sad, but it's hard to argue with. Almost.

Let us consider religion for a moment. Now, before the skeptics get riled up ("Religion? = BAD, ROAR!!"), try to keep in mind the semantics of the term. Religio is an Italian word meaning "a linking back," in this case to that which is holy, divine, or absolute. The one, God, Brahma, life force, whatever. So think of it as the quest we are all on as philosophers, instead of picturing whatever indoctrination your parents may have subjected you to.

To me it seems that this feeling of having linked back is not conditional. I repeat, NOT CONDITIONAL. Rather, I see a sort of universal religio, in what is known as the mystical experience.

If there is in fact such an experience, that can be shared between people that are both spatially and temporally distant from each other, then wouldn't that suggest some sort of absolute? We share similar genes, but too many get the impression that biology and spirituality must be seperate. Since we are our genes, whatever spiritual experience we might encounter is without a doubt a function of them. And we can rest assured knowing that somehow this function has been refined since the dawn of evolution, perhaps playing some part in our ability to be here (millions of years later) at all.

Whatever brings on this experience, if it is something that, regardless of environment, regardless of political/social outlook, any person can share, then I suggest it is the most valuable tool we have for probing the deep mysteries of existence. If it takes us to the root, a place before the explosion of the many-faced ego, then it is something to truly investigate. But many (perhaps not ever hearing so eloquent an introduction) will scoff at the notion. However, it is up to the brave souls to take up this quest and find that experience and share it, by whatever means necessary.

It's out there. GO!

Thoughts?

[Junket]

Morality can exist without religion.

[bohemiandonut]

I'm talking specifically about a universal morality.

Of course morality can develop with or without religion, but it almost always evolves based on shared cultural values. That was my point.

But I think that the transcendent nature of the mystical experience might show us something that is much more real, more true. Simply because it exists without all the cultural, arbitrary influence.

[barniclebob]

To be frank, i'm penny short of getting your point. I never said i was smart, so don't ****ing flame me.

Only thing i understood is what i already knew(believe). Morals differ from culture to culture and they are all subjective(relative?) Most of the time organized morals tend to either make you feel like crap or scares the shit out of you into submission. Most of the time, people don't bother to think about what the morals are trying to express. If moral saids that you should not kill another person, they do i because it saids so. Never asks why I shouldn't?

(going off treck) Which makes me wonder about the whole existance of human being itself. I tend to think that human beings are created not by god or evolution. In strange way, I think that human beings are created when we became selfaware. When we uttered expression "I". Anway, i'm goin to deep end.

Clear it up a bit BDoughnut. For those who had less than edumuh-cation.

[bohemiandonut]

Which makes me wonder about the whole existance of human being itself. I tend to think that human beings are created not by god or evolution. In strange way, I think that human beings are created when we became selfaware. When we uttered expression "I". Anway, i'm goin to deep end.

And I'm the one who needs to clear it up a bit?

I thought my point was very well made.

Just trying to take everyone's minds off the gloomy.

Peace.

[EDIT] I just realized I thought bob had said we became human when we became "software," not self-aware. Woops.

Still, that wasn't really the topic... *shrugs*

[Chlorine]

"We share similar genes, but too many get the impression that biology and spirituality must be seperate. Since we are our genes, whatever spiritual experience we might encounter is without a doubt a function of them".

I'm partial to the idea of body and spirit being separate. Probably because when the body dies, the spirit lives on. Right? Afterall ghosts float around here and there. Is the spiritual experience part of our genetic makeup? I find it hard to link the two, because while the body can be pinned down, the spirit can't. It's intangible. Some force that differs from person to person.

As for the universal morality that you mentioned, could it be behaviours derived from instinct? Like laws of nature. Every living creature would be hurt by fire. Instinctively, that would give you an idea of bad circumstances. So as time evolves, 'universal morality' develops based on basic experiences/functions.

Just thoughts.....

[bohemiandonut]

Just thoughts.....

Exactly! I very much appreciated your post, Chlorine. Let me give you something else to chew on...

You talk about spirit being seperate from biology. I tend to disagree with this notion. However, I do believe that a certain part of us "goes on" after death. How is this possible without an intangible soul, you ask? I'll tell you.

Think about time for a moment. Einsteinian physics are all well and good, but don't forget that our concept of time is without a doubt a product of our biology, of our brains in particular. So, imagine if death were some sort of lapse into infinite time? A personal infinite. Or to be modern, a relative infinite time. This would mean that the world we left would go on, and we would shrivel and make dust, but that moment would live on forever because we perceived it too.

Of course, this will open up new arguments and questions, many of which will be valid. Consciousness sure is tricky!

Keep thinking brothers! Peace.

[misombra]

well some energy force drives our biology. rocks and other "non living" things exist, but for some reason lack our force other than mass to attract light, which i believe personally to be said force, we all carry it and we're all made from it, all living things are. of course something that drives that force too, the center of the galaxy, the center of the universe, and beyond conception yet vital to our being. we metabolise things in such a way that we are able to move, build, think, live in a way that other (non living) things don't. and other humans carry that same life force. the same light force drives them, just like the same force drives "not living" things to exist. i've always believed that all of these "religions" are like spokes on a wheel, all centered in one thiing and going out into all different directions, but based on the same force, and none of those directions are good or bad, they just are. it's the same theory as an atom, or the solar system, or the galaxy. biologists have discovred in the study of genes that there are no genetic differences in humans. the idea that people are biologically different was constructed to account for differences in humans. it was moving away from the center. but i believe that that life force is always there, pulling us toward it. and as much as we try to move away, that distance is dependent on the axis...

i'm i rambling? i could go on for days donut boy.

[misombra]

okay i'm not done rambling...

i guess my point of all that is that we are more different than we are the same on all levels. we're all composed of the same chemicals as the sun. chemicals cannot be broken down into nothing. it embraces and affirms the theory that energy does not die, but transforms. it goes back to essence of what it always was, the energy and the light force that not only lives in or drives us but IS us. and not only is it us, but we are it. and he and she are it too and it is everything, and everything is it. we are born the same way and we will all decompose the same way, difference is made up. things are more relative than they are different.

[misombra]

wait i have to amend that...

difference doesn't exist. everything is relative.

[misombra]

oh and i must apologize for the editing, i just read it after i posted and found small grammatical errors.

oh yeah, and for the quad posting

[Only-virgins]

Meh....its all relative. What are you going to do about it?

[misombra]

...exactly

[Chlorine]

Donut------You must be lying awake at night thinking up all these theories?!! I am trying to understand what you’re saying. My cautious response would be:

For us to perceive life in infinite time, should indicate our consciousness lives on…is that what you’re saying? You are thinking that when we die, our consciousness lives on, because we will be able to perceive infinity. Currently, I am able to sit here and type, because my brain is functioning. I am conscious. If a person has an accident and suffers permanent brain damage, his consciousness seems to disappear. Where does it go? I suck at biology, so I haven’t a clue. Whatever the case, the consciousness is gone, but the person is still there, ie the essence. You know this because the expression of the person is still evident, the person lying there still looks like himself/herself. Life is still there.

So if I am imagining it correctly, when we die, our consciousness should die as well. So I don’t think we will be able to perceive life as it is now (in infinite time). I just think that when we die, the life essence that makes us who we are, should not disappear into nothing. The essence does move on…..it must go somewhere.

In summary, I would classify consciousness as being part of our biological make-up. Again, still separate from our life essence/spirit.

Misombra------“…which i believe personally to be said force, we all carry it and we're all made from it, all living things are.”.

We are all driven and made by the same force? I’de like to think that us humans, more so us individuals are composed of more than just that. Maybe it’s my ego. I don’t know. Already The Donut is alluding to our consciousness living on after death. So that must put our life force one step above the force driving other living forms (Hehh….I hope!).

[bohemiandonut]

Okay, I'm really excited that you are all in on this! (Misombra, you get cooler every day!)

I realize the whole "consciousness lives on" theory is kind of vague and seems maybe even a little naive, but allow me to defend it. My basic suggestion is that "unconsciousness" does not exist. Think about yourself waking up this morning. Or any morning for that matter. Have you ever opened your eyes and jumped straight from this so-called "unconscious" sleep state to your normal waking life? (Waking Life - great movie by the way.)

Probably not. Probably, you wake up feeling as if you were just thinking of something. Sometimes you can recall it, sometimes it's too fleeting, but it's always there. This happens no matter when you wake up, and psychologists are beginning to catch up to that fact. Before, it was assumed that there are times during sleep that we are "unconscious," and other times when we are dreaming. However, this is a false notion. We are always conscious when we are asleep, however, we just lose ourselves in those moments. We forget who we are. And then when we wake up, we forget that we forgot!

If death is "the end," and consciousness does not "go on," where does it go? You cannot perceive a state of negative existence. Hence, what I'm saying is that even if we do evaporate, that moment right before we dissappear may seem to go on forever, simply because it cannot, according to the definition of non-existence, end. We cannot perceive nothing. Sounds tricky, but it's all relativity again.

What is your earliest memory? Can you imagine a time of non-existence? Not really, what you imagine is a lack of presence, but you would have to exist to notice that, would you not? Hence, eternity is our most basic memory. We "are," and I find it hard to believe that we just pop into positive existence and then fade out.

Of course, life as an eternal singularity might get a little boring. At some point, we would probably decide to jump back into the game. Because hey, it's fun!

Peace. (Keep thinking and posting! We don't have to stick to this topic!)