Not sure if I should throw in the towel....

[confusedinohio]

Alright, so my situation has become quite confusing to me. Some people tell me it's clear as day, but to me, it's really not.

Back in April I started flirting with a co-worker. This turned into regular text messaging and lots of "inside jokes". I should back it up and say that he separated from his wife in January of 2011. The divorce was finalized in the end of April. The marriage lasted a year, but they had been together 7 years. Anyways, as April progressed into May, we had started to text and talk to each other on the phone on a regular basis. We also worked with each other every week, and were very close. In May we finally hung out "one on one" and needless to say, ended up sleeping with one another. At first I wanted it to just be a friends with benefits situation, but as time went on, we were talking on the phone for hours every evening and had become best friends. We continued to get together a few times a week, which was hard due to all of the weird hours he works (at 3 different jobs!!).

By the end of July, I had realized that this was a person that I really wanted to get to know better, and potentially start a real relationship with. I finally got the guts to tell him in August, and he said that he had feelings for me but wasn't ready for a relationship. Simply put, "I like you, and it's nothing against you, but I can't date you right now". This also led to him telling me he didn't think he could make anyone happy, and that he needed to be single...

Things continued the same for the next few months. Talking every night, seeing each other on his off time, etc etc. I trust him, 100%, and it's obvious that he trusts me, too.

I started to feel paranoid about the situation, worried he would find someone else, and went into "crazy girl" mode. But, even when I was upset and freaking out, he still stayed and listened and helped me through. He never judges me, always motivates me, and has been nothing but an amazing friend. A few weeks ago, after being stressed out over a situation at my job, I had a conversation with him and he said that maybe it would be better for me if we quit seeing each other (in a sexual way). I sort of blew that off, because I thought he was just trying to be the nice guy. A couple days later, I attempted to plan a 'get together' and he told me he couldn't, and that he wasn't going to be having sex for awhile. We ended up talking on the phone for 5 hours! He explained to me that his ex had contacted him that weekend, and they needed to straighten some things up. They are not getting back together, but there are issues over property and their apartment, that she is making an issue over. He told me that I should consider myself lucky to not actually be dating him, because he would've had to help her and there is no way I would've "understood". I think that's BS because I would have... I want him to get the situation figured out so he can move on, fully! During this phone conversation, he told me "we might as well just say we're never going to date".. which broke my heart.. so I said "So there is no chance of that changing, ever?", in which he replied, "What I'm saying is I can't date you now. I'm not boyfriend material". Again, I find that to be BS as he has been nothing but amazing to me, and has always been there!

So my question is just..... do you think he is just trying to let me down easy, or could he really be having issues and doesn't want to bring me into them? I have never felt so strongly about anyone before, and it's hard for me to let go. Things are still okay between us. When we see each other, his face lights up and I still get the vibe that he has feelings. I've cut back on texting or calling him, and he barely ever texts me first. But he also told me that he was going to have to be "quiet" for awhile, to get things in his life back on track. I'm probably all over the place with this posting, but I hope someone has some insight! I don't think there is another woman, and I know it's not his ex... is it worth it to wait this out? Or should I just tell myself that he no longer has feelings, and made that clear to me by saying, "we should just say we're never going to date". I'm hanging onto the words "I just can't date you right now".

Sigh... what do I do??

[smackie9]

You should back the f#@% off. He had told you numerous times that he doesn't want to date you, maybe just be friends, doesn't want a relationship, says he's not to be BF material.....what else do you need? Your feelings are keeping you in denial. He just got out of an 8 year relationship, so why would he want to jump right into another one? He's probably gonna want to be single for a couple of years, get into a few different panties here and there before committing to something again. Just chalk it up as bad timing.

I can see where he is coming from. He knows you are over the top into him.....he doesn't want to go there, so yes he is trying to let you down easy.

[confusedinohio]

Well, your quote of being brutally honest was right. LOL

I know. I know. I said it should be clear as day to me....

I just find it funny how much he talked to me, and tried to build me up & motivate me, if he didn't want more. And also, what guy ends the sex, if he is having a "friends with benefits" sort of deal going on and the girl tells him they can continue that??? Seems to me like he does care, a lot, and is scared of getting hurt again. But I'm not a guy, so I realize I look waaaaay more into it

[enginex]

It sounds like it is mostly just a case of him wanting to keep his distance. I have recently come out of a relationship of three years (although my situation is a lot different) and I simply don't want to be involved with anyone right now. I feel like I need some time to get to know myself a bit better first.

It is easy to blame yourself in this kind of situation, but it honestly isn't worth it. It sounds like the only thing you are guilty of is letting your feelings be exposed.

You will meet the right person at the right time, whoever that maybe. :-)

[confusedinohio]

Yeah... bad timing is right.

Just confuses me, if he didn't want to get serious, why all the effort to get to know me and be there for me? And why, when I was having issues with my boss at work, did he get so upset over the situation? (Like, he was so angry with how I was being treated). Still seems to me like he cares... it's hard to just walk away from someone that actually gives a shit about you.

[smackie9]

Well, your quote of being brutally honest was right. LOL

I know. I know. I said it should be clear as day to me....

I just find it funny how much he talked to me, and tried to build me up & motivate me, if he didn't want more. And also, what guy ends the sex, if he is having a "friends with benefits" sort of deal going on and the girl tells him they can continue that??? Seems to me like he does care, a lot, and is scared of getting hurt again. But I'm not a guy, so I realize I look waaaaay more into it

You are thinking like a girl. He isn't scared of getting hurt, he's afraid of hurting you.....he is just being a nice guy. Yes there are guys out there that treat a lady with respect.

[Wakeup]

Well, your quote of being brutally honest was right. LOL

I know. I know. I said it should be clear as day to me....

I just find it funny how much he talked to me, and tried to build me up & motivate me, if he didn't want more. And also, what guy ends the sex, if he is having a "friends with benefits" sort of deal going on and the girl tells him they can continue that??? Seems to me like he does care, a lot, and is scared of getting hurt again. But I'm not a guy, so I realize I look waaaaay more into it

A guy will end a FWB situation (in your case it was a Fb not a FWB because you were not friends prior to actually fking.) when the "buddy" starts to rock the boat and cause him unwanted drama and or try to impose strings on a mutually agreed to No Strings Attached sexual only relationship.

He's bullshitting you dear. I don't know of one divorce that started and actually had the decree accomplished within a 3-4 month period even when it wasn't being contested. Further: The norm is that negotiations take place for the division of property and both parties agree to the terms of the divorce prior to the divorce taking place, not afterwards like he has told you re: the problems with the house/apartment and her making some kind of wave.

It's unfortunate that you let yourself become vulnerable to this man because by all accounts, he played you. Hell, you can't even say that because YOU agreed to no strings attached booty and now that you've changed the rules by getting emotional and making expectations known, he's flying the coop. Don't chase him. He'll steal your joy one sex session at a time if you agree to carry on taking the sex without his committment or emotional reciprocation. Next time you tell a guy you've developed feelings for him and he tells you that he hasn't developed them for you, then for goodness sakes, break off the sex sessions there and then or you're going to end up in this exact state yet again.

Listen when a guy tells you to your face that he's not that into you but he'll take what you offer until it suits him and not a minute longer.

Zero contact and you'll withdrawl from this drug you're addicted to known as "validation through sex." Think about it, you feel lost and lonely until your next sex session when he validates you by gracing you with what you crave... him and then he's gone again. Bad for your self-worth, that dynamic.

Don't look into his being a nice guy (while with you) as anything deeper than what it was. There are lots of men who can be nice to someone they are having casual sex with and it doesn't mean anything deeper then him being a man and trying to help you to problem solve your way through your dilemma

But he also told me that he was going to have to be "quiet" for awhile, to get things in his life back on track.

That, would indicate to me that he has someone new or he's returned to his wife and he won't be able to text you while he's with her.. Or, he's trying to be nice to you and is weaning you from him slowly but is selfish enough to keep a door open in case he ever wants somemore of you at a later date. Don't let him play you.

[bulrush]

Property is divided using the Divorce Agreement. So when the divorce is finalized, the property SHOULD BE divided, unless they guy had a bad lawyer, which means the DA was very vague, which is why there is still property issues going on. Or he could be BSing you.

He sounds like he likes you but is not ready for a relationship so he's trying to tell you that. I think he wants to date you but doesn't want to bring you into all this drama, BECAUSE he really likes you. But, you have to go off his actions, which say he's not ready to date right now. Give him 3-6 months, but keep in touch with him once a week. That's what I would do.

He sounds like a nice guy that is worth waiting for. But he's just not ready for anything right now. You can also ask to see the Divorce Agreement (aka Divorce Decree) and look for the judge's signature along with the sigs of the two parties. A judge only signs it once it is final and official. The DA has very private financial and other information in it. Do not ask to see the whole thing, just the signatures with a date.

Next time you tell a guy you've developed feelings for him and he tells you that he hasn't developed them for you, then for goodness sakes, break off the sex sessions there and then or you're going to end up in this exact state yet again.

In a case like this, certainly. He is soon out of the divorce and still reeling from it all. He needs time to get over this divorce. In other situations, the guy just moves slower than the girl and will become emotionally attached, in time.

[Wakeup]

In a case like this, certainly. He is soon out of the divorce and still reeling from it all.

I don't believe he's even divorced/that he still could be married in fact.

In other situations, the guy just moves slower than the girl and will become emotionally attached, in time.

Yes, when two people have the same relationship goals of wanting to be in a long term union, then there is that possibility. However: that's what most players hope a girl will assume, that his feelings will catchup... that eventually her vagina will win him over.
Most men who are enjoying things and are open to being in a relationship who "aren't quite there yet" in their feelings will NOT say what he said to the Op which was: ""I like you, and it's nothing against you, but I can't date you right now" and start to back off and totally disappear soon after. Any woman with a lick of self-respect/worth would not wait around for someone after those words and actions. Do you see, Op?

This guy does not want anything serious with you. You've been screwing long enough that if he had romantic, I want you in my life forever feelings for you, he'd have told you then that he loved you too. It was only after you confessed that he started to distance himself and then all of a sudden he had these so called property issues to deal with his WIFE with and these "I'm not ready for a relationship yet" convos with you and then he bubbyed you.

Frankly, I got the vibe that he was never divorced and you were some on the side. (sorry :o( Anyway, he's lying to you in some capacity.. that's for certain. (which is yet another red flag)

Google him/do a background check on him and find out if he was actually divorced or not. See what else comes up on about him that may help you to get over him.

Did you ever meet him at his place? Did you ask to be his exclusive sexual partner? Was he the one to always deem when you'd see one another or did he let you call some of those shots? Bottomline: How do you know for sure that he was even divorced or single for that matter?

[confusedinohio]

Alright. We were "friends" before we slept together. And any time I would ask him what I was, he didn't even want to call me a friend because he said it was more than that. (And no, he wasn't saying FWB). He didn't back off when I first confessed my feelings for him. When things first started, I only wanted a "hook-up". I actually thought I'd end up hurting him, as he just got out of a long term relationship. It all changed the more I got to know him, and spend actual time with him (outside of the work environment). After a few weeks weeks of "hooking up", things came up as to what we were and he said that we would "go with the flow" and we would know if "things changed" and we wanted more from it.

It was in August that I actually fessed up with my real feelings. Told him I liked him a lot, and really would like more from our situation. He told me that he had feelings for me as well, but that he didn't feel like he could "make anyone happy at this point in my life". He told me that in the past, he knows he could've been great for me, but just didn't know that he could now, and that he didn't think it was fair to me to not make a sound decision about where I stood with him. I told him I understood and we would just continue with the ways things were....


I know, the entire thing is confusing, but I don't believe he is a player. I've been with lots of players, and this guy acts nothing like them. He knows what people have done to me, and I could see on his face how much it upset him. Plus, he stopped the "hooking up" in December, after I got upset and his ex contacted him (and no, he isn't with her... I have done my research, believe me!). She has caused a lot of drama for him, including telling people she is moving back into their apartment and that he "owes her". This man has gone out of his way to get this woman out of his life, and she insists on starting drama. She cheated on him and then the marriage ended. She was with this other man (in a relationship), as soon as she moved out of the apartment.


I know most of it boils down to him not wanting to be hurt again, but he won't admit to that. Instead he likes to say he isn't boyfriend material, he can't make me happy, he doesn't want a relationship, he has no time (I'm sure he works all the time to try and cover the real pain he is in). etc.

I've never known a guy to end a "hook up", that was basically no strings attached. He still answers my texts and calls, and at work we act the same way we always have. I get that vibe from him, when he looks at me. And that is why I was and still am, terrified to just walk away.

I did go over the possibility that MAYBE there is someone else, but, I'm not even sure that I believe that. Now, I'm wondering if I need to ask him. No one has ever treated me as well as he does, or listened. He's one of the only people in my life that has ever motivated me, and made me feel like I was doing something right. Not trying to be a sap here, but he's one of the good guys.

But, I guess I need to go back to how he worded himself when he said "We should just assume that we're never going to date". To which I responded with "So, never... as in no chance..." and then he says, "What I'm saying is I can't date you NOW". See, confusing.

I've backed off.... but I still text now & then, about nothing at all. I've dropped the subject and I've not tried to get back into his bed (although a part of me would rather go back to what we were doing, than what we are now... not going to lie), so, I just don't know what I'm doing with myself. It's a question of Do I give up, forget about the situation, quit talking to him except when we run into one another at work?", or Do I distance myself a bit, but stay known in his life, and hope things change? or .... well, there are many options & scenarios I've gone over in my mind but none are a clear winner.

Sorry... I realize I'm rambling but this is important to me, and all of the advice is well appreciated and taken into consideration!

[Wakeup]

Alright. We were "friends" before we slept together.

How long were you "friends" before you slept with him? What great friend-like-things did you do together without having had sex before you had sex?

I actually thought I'd end up hurting him, as he just got out of a long term relationship.

yet you went ahead even though you thought you'd hurt your good friend? That was rather selfish of you wasn't it? You thinking you'd hurt your "friend" but you went ahead anyway because you wanted it.

After a few weeks weeks of "hooking up", things came up as to what we were and he said that we would "go with the flow" and we would know if "things changed" and we wanted more from it.

"Go with the flow." Sounds like he didn't want anything with strings but he would let you know when he had enough of the playing. Which, is exactly what he did. You wanted him to define things yet he just dazzled you with his science and didn't define a GD thing.. and you let him get away with that because you were desperate to take any crumb he was willing to give you. "Go with the flow" is a way to keep getting what you want without rocking the boat.

It was in August that I actually fessed up with my real feelings. Told him I liked him a lot, and really would like more from our situation. He told me that he had feelings for me as well, but that he didn't feel like he could "make anyone happy at this point in my life".

Those are only words. You need to start paying attention to his actions. Actions that tell you that you are not going to be in a committement with him. His words did indeed match his actions. He clearly told you I still want the sex but I'm not going to give you what you want. You only hear "I have feelings for you too" and continued on with the status quo hoping that the sex would lead to a committment.

He told me that in the past, he knows he could've been great for me, but just didn't know that he could now, and that he didn't think it was fair to me to not make a sound decision about where I stood with him.

Yet another reason why you should have called it quits then and left him so that you wouldn't break your own heart. As I said, men that love someone do not tell you that leaving you is the best thing, they don't tell you how much they SHOULDN'T be with you, they be with you and they don't try to talk you into not being with them ~ No matter what is going on in their lives if they want you in the way you wanted him. they just don't do that.

I told him I understood and we would just continue with the ways things were....

THAT was desperation speaking, you settling and you being afraid to be without him. Which I'm sure he smelled a mile away.

I know, the entire thing is confusing, but I don't believe he is a player. I've been with lots of players, and this guy acts nothing like them.

Why have you been with lots of players? Do you want to be in only casual sexual relationships and then hope that the sex will lead you to a relationship? Are you a player yourself? Do you not think you're good enough for a good man who is ready, willing and able to be in something committed, loving and reciprocal with you? Do you not ask for sexual exclusivity when you start bopping your men?

He knows what people have done to me,

More like what you've allowed men to do to you (from doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result).. Just like you're allowing him to break you as well. Perhaps thats why he tells you that he can't be with you, because he doesn't want to give you what you want and if he stays with you, you will be telling the next guy "what he had done to you?" You should seriously consider changing up your dating strategies. After being played once there should be enough lessons learned there that you'd not let it happen to you again. Players have pattern, there are always red flags and actions that indicate players are playing.

and I could see on his face how much it upset him.

That still doesn't mean he wants you as his wife/girlfriend with monogamous commitment and a full fledged relationship where he has to answer to you or anyone else. Believe him... he's told you enough times.

Plus, he stopped the "hooking up" in December, after I got upset and his ex contacted him (and no, he isn't with her... I have done my research, believe me!). She has caused a lot of drama for him, including telling people she is moving back into their apartment and that he "owes her". This man has gone out of his way to get this woman out of his life, and she insists on starting drama.

Yea, like he is totally innocent of enabling her bullshit. Please! He's a grown man who is supposedly divorced from this woman, he should be not giving a flying fk what she is doing and making it so she cannot ever contact him again. If they have no children then he could easily distance himself form her sociopathy.

She cheated on him and then the marriage ended. She was with this other man (in a relationship), as soon as she moved out of the apartment.

Who cares?

I know most of it boils down to him not wanting to be hurt again, but he won't admit to that.

ARe you shitting me? He's told you a dozen times that he's not wanting to do that, that he doesn't want to do to you what all the other men you've been with (as you say) have done to you but you just won't believe him. He does not want to hurt you like the rest so he is stopping using you for sex and is distancing himself from you so that you can get the fk over him. He's already done to you what the others have done because once again you've allowed yourself to be a casual sex object.

Instead he likes to say he isn't boyfriend material, he can't make me happy, he doesn't want a relationship, he has no time

Geeezus take a hint, please! You're so far in denial it's scary.

(I'm sure he works all the time to try and cover the real pain he is in). etc

O.o if you know that, if you're that certain then why do you come to this board looking for answers?
> Deep down you know that you need to accept that you are not going to be this mans, woman. Let him go and no matter why he is wanting to be away from you, you need to accept that and stop being selfish by trying to impose yourself in his life.

I've never known a guy to end a "hook up", that was basically no strings attached. He still answers my texts and calls, and at work we act the same way we always have. I get that vibe from him, when he looks at me. And that is why I was and still am, terrified to just walk away.

You work with him, he needs no more drama then he's already imbroiled in. He's not a monster, of course he's going to return your calls. It doesn't mean he is in love with you and denying himself from you though. Just becuase all your other hookups haven't just stopped and he has, it doesn't mean that he's just denying his love for you and suffering so you won't get hurt. Please gather yourself up and start looking at this realistically.

I did go over the possibility that MAYBE there is someone else, but, I'm not even sure that I believe that. Now, I'm wondering if I need to ask him. No one has ever treated me as well as he does, or listened. He's one of the only people in my life that has ever motivated me, and made me feel like I was doing something right. Not trying to be a sap here, but he's one of the good guys.

Well, I'm sorry to hear that you've never had a true friend or someone that you can rely on. Frankly you can't even rely on yourself to look out for you. You keep making the same mistakes and hoping for a different outcome. Have you ever considered getting personal therapy to help you to figure yourself out?

But, I guess I need to go back to how he worded himself when he said "We should just assume that we're never going to date". To which I responded with "So, never... as in no chance..." and then he says, "What I'm saying is I can't date you NOW". See, confusing.

This is what made me think he was a player. They seem to always leave a door open just incase they're without any prospects at the moment and then they can just walk through that door again and start hooking up with the that gal they left hanging that doesn't have enough self-worth to see what the score actually is and gets validated once again from being graced by his sexual attention.

I've backed off.... but I still text now & then, about nothing at all. I've dropped the subject and I've not tried to get back into his bed (although a part of me would rather go back to what we were doing, than what we are now... not going to lie), so, I just don't know what I'm doing with myself. It's a question of Do I give up, forget about the situation, quit talking to him except when we run into one another at work?", or Do I distance myself a bit, but stay known in his life, and hope things change? or .... well, there are many options & scenarios I've gone over in my mind but none are a clear winner.

Don't contact him anymore about anything. By trying to keep yourself in his mind all you're doing is stagnating yourself from getting over him completely and you're keeping yourself embroiled in this river of denial your drowning in.

Sorry... I realize I'm rambling but this is important to me, and all of the advice is well appreciated and taken into consideration!

Stop making it so important to you. It was a casual, sexual affair that he's just ended. If he wants to be with you, he knows where you live. Don't sit there waiting for him. get on with your life and take measures stop being in casual sexual hook ups. I don't know how old you are but you're old enough to know that the way you love is a very lonely way to go about life.

Even though I've said things here that won't enable you to remain in your denial, I do wish you well and hope you accept sooner rather than later so that you can recover and find someone who is willing to be with you the way you want them to be. Learn to love yourself and you'll find someone that will love you back the way you want to be loved.

[smackie9]

He just said you were more than that because he didn't want to come off as a user...but he is. Tip: guys will do and will say anything to get sex...friends or not.

[confusedinohio]

Well, as if I didn't already sound like a complete idiot, I get some amazing news dropped on me last evening.....

Remember how he said he didn't want to date anyone, didn't want a girlfriend, bla bla bla.

Well, when I saw him at work he gave off a weird vibe and I thought he was pissed at me. Later on, I had him call me. We were on / off the phone for a period of 5 hours. The call starts off normal. Tells me I've done nothing wrong, he's been busy, been dealing with the ex wife, etc etc. Finally he tells me he has some news. I respond with "Is this news going to be good or bad for me?", to which he says "I don't think it will really affect you".

#1 "Well, I found out the other day that my ex wife is now engaged".
#2 "I have a girlfriend".

So, basically, in a nutshell...... he tells me he's unhappy but once he found out she was engaged "things changed" and he's decided to date some girl that his ex worked with, and that he has known for several years. I kept asking if this had been going on while we were seeing each other, to which he said it was not. Seriously. And the sick thing is, I really think it was random and something he did out of spite, but in the mean time, hurt a girl that actually cared about him A LOT! (me). Even on the phone, it's like he wouldn't stop talking... he said he had to go, but wouldn't just say goodbye. The entire situation is confusing / stupid / pathetic... I could go on and on. He isn't a player. He's someone that is deeply hurt and now has completely went and done something so immature, I can't even comprehend how he could or would do it. I kept reminding him how he said he didn't want a girlfriend and all he could do is keep saying how his ex was engaged...

I guess I should be happy that he didn't choose to date me, out of anger and to spite someone from his past.... but now I'm worried that he's going to continue on a downward spiral. Also, why would he want this other girl to get stuck in his drama? He told me the last thing he wants is ME to be INVOLVED in "HIS DRAMA" and bla bla bla. So of course that makes me feel like he actually cares more about me than this person he is actually DATING. Gah... and kept telling me how he's the one that f'd everything up.

He told me I was acting like he had died, and I told him that's how it felt to me. How can I be expected to still be the same person I was with him, now that he's dropped this info on me?? He says everything between us is fine and the same and we are friends and nothing is going to change. Too bad it already has.... I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't understand why people react and do things like this out of anger, especially when they are an adult.

I'm sure the responses to this are going to be along the lines of, "Wow, you really are gullible/naive"..... but it's alright. Lay it on me.

[confusedinohio]

I did a little detective work and found out that he had a girlfriend a month before we started seeing one another. The same girlfriend that he is only now telling me about. When I found a photo of them online, he told me it was a new photo and they just started dating.... as in this new year. But, going from what I found, he has been with her since April. I am shaking right now because I am so upset... I still don't even know how it is possible... he works all the time (that is NOT a lie).. and we would talk for hours and hours every single day... worse part is, I met her one time... he brought her in to get her paycheck... I really am at a loss...

[surfhb]

I did a little detective work and found out that he had a girlfriend a month before we started seeing one another. The same girlfriend that he is only now telling me about. When I found a photo of them online, he told me it was a new photo and they just started dating.... as in this new year. But, going from what I found, he has been with her since April. I am shaking right now because I am so upset... I still don't even know how it is possible... he works all the time (that is NOT a lie).. and we would talk for hours and hours every single day... worse part is, I met her one time... he brought her in to get her paycheck... I really am at a loss...

Please kill yourself