Trust, insecurities, gf keeping in touch with ex-es

[tshalb]

I am male, and we are both 25 (I am 6 months older). We've been in a relationship a little over a year now, and I've been having trust issues with two of my gf's ex-es. One isn't really an ex, but a previous flirt/almost a relationship.

Background on me: The first serious girl I dated ended up cheating on me studying abroad, and I've had a few non-committed relationships since then. This is my 2nd serious relationship. I know, and follow, the advice that "trust in someone unless given a reason not to trust" and so here goes what's going on. I also don't believe in talking to ex-es, in any way shape or form, after you're in a marriage. That's a past life, you have a new one now. You can feel good for them, and hope for the best, but actually reaching out to them is a no-no.

Background on her: Her first ex, her most important, was together with her for 5 years (throughout hs into early college). They've been broken up for about 3-4 years now. She doesn't have a lot of girl-friends, and her ex (and another guy...getting to that later) were the main source of her complaints / rants / telling of problems to. You know, stuff you would tell your best friend / best girl (hyphen) friend.

When we first started dating, this girl let me know that she made a mistake in her past, where when she let some other guy kiss her (she was in a non-serious relationship) after she got tipsy and went over to his house. The scenario is that she wanted to accompany her friend and make sure she was okay, so she went along too. But she was tipsy, and the other guy kissed her - she pushed him away. She knows it was a mistake, and I think she sincerely believes that. However,I felt that this was a red flag, and I considered this cheating. I reasoned "it's okay, everyone makes mistakes, that's not in this relationship at least".

This first ex didn't make the greatest impression on me, nothing of his fault (yet). Early into my and my gf's dating life, I confessed to her "I love you" and a few weeks later, she said "I love you <insert first ex name>". I was flabbergasted. Absolutely speechless. I know it was habitual, sub-conscious, as I am the only other person she has said it to, but I can't help but to think that if she didn't keep in touch with her ex (however slight) it wouldn't have happened.

Okay great. Strike I and II.

Fast fwd 2-3 months. It's 11pm, she get's a call from her first ex. That's a boundary right there crossed. At the time she tried to reason with me that it was okay, and that it wasn't a boundary crossing, and that a call like that isn't important (she later agreed with me that there was a boundary crossed). I argued that she needs to tell him it's not okay, and she reluctantly (I think she places me as the bad guy here) does it. Fast fwd 1-2 weeks. And out of nowhere, she receives a MMS text from the first ex, of a handmade gift that she made for him in high school. Uh oh. Wtf? At this point, I know she doesn't have feelings for him, but I doubt his intentions and I doubt him. I also think, at this point, it was a really big line that has been crossed. Originally, she doesn't believe me, she found it "funny" that he would do that. She was even arguing for him, that it was because he was lonely, and it doesn't happen too often. It took a while, but eventually she agreed that it was a line that was crossed. Again. This is something I can't help but to think if she didn't keep in touch....wouldn't have happened.

Now, the other guy. She's had a interesting relationship with this one, not exactly dating, but almost to the point of - where they shared a lot of intimate moments in terms of talking and sharing time together - she had feelings for him, and didnt act on it due to other reasons. I found out about this guy after piecing together the clues. We were on a date once, and she got a call from him - she glowed with excitement - odd i thought must be a really good friend. 6 months later, we're at a lounge, and this guy walks in and she starts flirting with him while I sit right next to her (she denies she did at the time....but again...after much convincing from my perspective, she agreed she was pretty flirty). Eventually she caves and tells me that she did indeed have feelings for him (she hid it for a little bit first). She wanted to keep in touch with this guy too, because of the past they've shared, and it makes me uncomfortable.

So, here's the problem. I asked that she stopped keeping in touch with these guys, because she's shown me that for those two specific people - there were reasons for me not to trust her. She's telling me that this is against her morals, being told by someone else who she can and can't talk to.

I have to agree with her that I'm imposing on her freedom of choice here, but I cant help but to think that If i didn't ask (repeatedly, getting more upset each time) that it wasn't okay to contact these two - it was just going to keep going on and on until I finally broke.

The other day, she hears (down the chain from group of friends) that her first ex-es uncle had passed away. She asked me if she could contact him and send condolences. I said no, i dont think she should share that part of his life anymore. I explained why, and got upset over the fact she was getting in touch with him again, even under extreme circumstances. I think she's very uncomfortable "severing" those relations with these two guys, since they were an important part of her past. However, those two figures have (in my mind) crossed some boundaries that I don't want to see continuing in a relationship, especially one that may be on the road for marriage. I'm not sure what to do, or what I can do to stop being controlling (as she put it) when I feel threatened by my own insecurities.

TL;DR: GF keeps in touch with her first ex, despite displaying (what i thought) were reasons that broke my full trust. She kept in touch with another guy, that she had feelings for (did not date, formally), I asked her to stop talking to them both. Got in huge shit for being controlling.

[tshalb]

I am male, and we are both 25 (I am 6 months older). We've been in a relationship a little over a year now, and I've been having trust issues with two of my gf's ex-es. One isn't really an ex, but a previous flirt/almost a relationship.

Background on me: The first serious girl I dated ended up cheating on me studying abroad, and I've had a few non-committed relationships since then. This is my 2nd serious relationship. I know, and follow, the advice that "trust in someone unless given a reason not to trust" and so here goes what's going on. I also don't believe in talking to ex-es, in any way shape or form, after you're in a marriage. That's a past life, you have a new one now. You can feel good for them, and hope for the best, but actually reaching out to them is a no-no.

Background on her: Her first ex, her most important, was together with her for 5 years (throughout hs into early college). They've been broken up for about 3-4 years now. She doesn't have a lot of girl-friends, and her ex (and another guy...getting to that later) were the main source of her complaints / rants / telling of problems to. You know, stuff you would tell your best friend / best girl (hyphen) friend.

When we first started dating, this girl let me know that she made a mistake in her past, where when she let some other guy kiss her (she was in a non-serious relationship) after she got tipsy and went over to his house. The scenario is that she wanted to accompany her friend and make sure she was okay, so she went along too. But she was tipsy, and the other guy kissed her - she pushed him away. She knows it was a mistake, and I think she sincerely believes that. However,I felt that this was a red flag, and I considered this cheating. I reasoned "it's okay, everyone makes mistakes, that's not in this relationship at least".

This first ex didn't make the greatest impression on me, nothing of his fault (yet). Early into my and my gf's dating life, I confessed to her "I love you" and a few weeks later, she said "I love you <insert first ex name>". I was flabbergasted. Absolutely speechless. I know it was habitual, sub-conscious, as I am the only other person she has said it to, but I can't help but to think that if she didn't keep in touch with her ex (however slight) it wouldn't have happened.

Okay great. Strike I and II.

Fast fwd 2-3 months. It's 11pm, she get's a call from her first ex. That's a boundary right there crossed. At the time she tried to reason with me that it was okay, and that it wasn't a boundary crossing, and that a call like that isn't important (she later agreed with me that there was a boundary crossed). I argued that she needs to tell him it's not okay, and she reluctantly (I think she places me as the bad guy here) does it. Fast fwd 1-2 weeks. And out of nowhere, she receives a MMS text from the first ex, of a handmade gift that she made for him in high school. Uh oh. Wtf? At this point, I know she doesn't have feelings for him, but I doubt his intentions and I doubt him. I also think, at this point, it was a really big line that has been crossed. Originally, she doesn't believe me, she found it "funny" that he would do that. She was even arguing for him, that it was because he was lonely, and it doesn't happen too often. It took a while, but eventually she agreed that it was a line that was crossed. Again. This is something I can't help but to think if she didn't keep in touch....wouldn't have happened.

Now, the other guy. She's had a interesting relationship with this one, not exactly dating, but almost to the point of - where they shared a lot of intimate moments in terms of talking and sharing time together - she had feelings for him, and didnt act on it due to other reasons. I found out about this guy after piecing together the clues. We were on a date once, and she got a call from him - she glowed with excitement - odd i thought must be a really good friend. 6 months later, we're at a lounge, and this guy walks in and she starts flirting with him while I sit right next to her (she denies she did at the time....but again...after much convincing from my perspective, she agreed she was pretty flirty). Eventually she caves and tells me that she did indeed have feelings for him (she hid it for a little bit first). She wanted to keep in touch with this guy too, because of the past they've shared, and it makes me uncomfortable.

So, here's the problem. I asked that she stopped keeping in touch with these guys, because she's shown me that for those two specific people - there were reasons for me not to trust her. She's telling me that this is against her morals, being told by someone else who she can and can't talk to.

I have to agree with her that I'm imposing on her freedom of choice here, but I cant help but to think that If i didn't ask (repeatedly, getting more upset each time) that it wasn't okay to contact these two - it was just going to keep going on and on until I finally broke.

The other day, she hears (down the chain from group of friends) that her first ex-es uncle had passed away. She asked me if she could contact him and send condolences. I said no, i dont think she should share that part of his life anymore. I explained why, and got upset over the fact she was getting in touch with him again, even under extreme circumstances. I think she's very uncomfortable "severing" those relations with these two guys, since they were an important part of her past. However, those two figures have (in my mind) crossed some boundaries that I don't want to see continuing in a relationship, especially one that may be on the road for marriage. I'm not sure what to do, or what I can do to stop being controlling (as she put it) when I feel threatened by my own insecurities.

TL;DR: GF keeps in touch with her first ex, despite displaying (what i thought) were reasons that broke my full trust. She kept in touch with another guy, that she had feelings for (did not date, formally), I asked her to stop talking to them both. Got in huge shit for being controlling.

Clarfications from another forum - as they are good points.

[–]itshissong1
You are being hugely controlling. Either you don't trust until you have reason not to trust or you look for and take every little thing as a reason not to trust. I'm like you, I've never kept in touch with an ex. However, that doesn't mean that every connection like that is a problem. Yes, she made a very hurtful slip of the tongue by saying her ex-bf's name when she meant to tell you she loved you. I can see how terrible that must have been for you. However, that was clearly not on purpose and it appears that she's really given you no reason to think you can't trust her. Case in point, of the communications/events you've described, the only one that is possibly out of line for her is being flirty with the guy she used to have a thing for and I somewhat doubt that since you had to "convinc[e]" her (cough … browbeat until she caved … cough) that she was being flirty with him.

Look, if this is a non-negotiable for you, it's a non-negotiable for you. That's certainly your prerogative. But you clearly have huge trust issues, imo, if you have an absolute rule that your future wife can never reach out to an ex, even just to send condolences on the loss of a loved one.

If you want to get over your own insecurities, you have to at least try to do so. In other words, if you don't extend the trust in the first place, thus allowing her to show you that she's worthy of that trust, you're always going to harbor these insecurities since it will seem like the only reason you can trust her is that she agreed to conform her behavior to your insecurities.

ME---------------
I am inclined to agree that I have some huge trust issues. Did you not read the part about the late night phone call and mms text from the first-ex? I don't really see how it's healthy to keep a relationship with an ex like that, and i don't see how it's fair to all parties.
I didnt "convince" her that she was being flirty. I "convinced" her to tell me about her feelings for him. I mentioned the flirtiness, and she arrived to the fact she was being overly (key: overly) flirty by herself.


[–]itshissong1
OK, I was obviously reading too much between the lines on the "convincing"/flirty part. I don't really see how one call from the ex is a huge issue, unless you guys were already asleep or something and she failed to tell the ex that this was too late in the evening to call. It's not like she called him and it's not like she is pushing you aside on the regular to talk to him. He called, she answered. It doesn't seem like they had some sort of inappropriate conversation, unless you left that out. I somewhat agree that the MMS of a memento of their relationship is a little bit sketchy, but honestly, it could just as easily not be sketchy since I definitely find myself contacting old friends along the lines of "hey, I saw this thing that totally reminded me of you, just wanted you to know I'm thinking of you." As far as what's "healthy" or not, I don't think there is an objective answer on this one. I certainly don't think it's unfair of her to keep a relatively minimal amount of contact with him.
For me, the bottom line is that none of the things you've said give me the impression that she is at all untrustworthy:

*A guy kissed her when she was drunk and she pushed him away. I don't see that as cheating, she admitted it was a mistake, and it didn't happen when you guys were dating.
*She answered a call from an ex but nothing untoward happened on that call.
*She received a text from the ex that she obviously didn't keep secret from you; I guess it's annoying of her ex to send it but she didn't solicit it and she told you about it.
*She flirted with a guy she used to be into in front of you. Yes, she made a mistake, but she didn't have a secret emotional affair or flirtation with him, whatever mistake she made, she made in front of you, only in hindsight, and seemingly agreed not to do again.
I'm just not seeing where the problem is here. She seems to want to maintain a minimal amount of contact with two people that she has a long history with, no more, no less. If they start crossing lines, that's an issue you can deal with as it arises.

ME-----------------------------
Yes we were already asleep. It was the first occurence when I was present. (read below). I dont know the contents of the call. What bothered me about the MMS memento was that she defended him tooth and nail, arguing that it was more than okay and he was only "lonely" and that's why he sent it. I thought that was really...odd...she would entertain his loneliness when she obviously broke up with him so many years ago. It's like she feels obligated(?) to keep in touch with him because at some point she promised she would always be there for him. She did mention this, and I've just recalled. But she said and I quote

"It's just hard for me to give up talking to him, because I promised him i would always be there for him"
and i said "but that was made within the bounds of the relationship, and you broke up with him, that contract should have been nullified once you made that decision".

More elaborations on the first ex-

*that's who she went to for relationship advice, when she was first dating me. That's who she went to to complain about me at the beginning of the relationship. I see that as, i guess, a threat almost - and that's my problem. I feel that this is something should be offloaded to a girl-friend....which she doesn't have so she uses the first ex.
*the late night phone call was jsut one instance, i dont know the total number but she says "occasionally they talk at night" like with a frequency of once every 3 months. They keep in regular contact on gchat (once every month a long chat, once every 2 week a hello etc).

Well, at least until about 8 months into the relationship where i asked her to stop keeping in touch. I guess I am more use to cutting off issues to a problem, before I see it arising - as I already saw a trend (and I know that's a fallacy, it may or may not happen). That is my failure, and I am aware of it.

[gardenofjade]

You can always go on Jerry Springer. But I suggest that you use whole messages and learn how to communicate. Then you can work on your self confidence.