Is it really all just a game?

[bob the brave]

I am a non-player, real, simple kind of guy. This leads me avoid game playing beyond flirting and not compete against other guys for a girl's affection. I figure I will simply be myself and she can decide for herself. I shouldn't have to sell myself and that kind of competition usually leads to rediculous postering, inflated egos and false promises which only serves to further distort the situation. I like to be friends first, becuase, to me, that makes sex more fun and meaningful.

The problem is I have been runover by players more times than I care to remember. They swoop in, take my girl, have their way and dump them. This can takes weeks to months, but they usually return to me, sad as hell, complaining the player is a jerk and wanting to get together. Sad thing is at this point I have to decline, even if I still care because thay already made their choice.

Almost every girl I know are attracted to these guys, fawn over them and then stagger around completely heartbroken and confused when they drop them and run to the next pair of legs. As a guy, I can recognize these guys right off and it breaks my heart to watch them 'play' these girls with swave ways and smooth words which are hollow and rehearsed. Some of these girls have dumped me for them knowing they are still in a relationship (cheat on the other girl) and then get really upset when it happens to them.

I have been told women actually know this and like these kind of guys and this kind of treatment. Is this true or is my lame game what women really want?

[pisces25]

Don't let it break your heart that these guys are 'playing' these girls they are every bit to blame. I think you sound like a sweet guy and when the right girl comes along none of this will even matter. Do you really want to be with these types of girls anyway, that 'like' to be treated like shit and just chase a guy coz he is 'hot'. Give me a sweet, non-player any day. Just out of curiosity how old you? Usually the older a girl gets the less likely she will go for this player type. After so many times of being treated this way she wants a 'nice' guy to settle down with. Just takes time and maturity to realise this.

[dickriculous]

There's a method to the madness behind the games these guys are playing, they affect women on a subconscious level, and that means any woman could potentially fall for them, regardless of her values and what she claims to look for in a guy. Also, 99.99999999% of women are lying when they try to convince you that they are these helpless victims having their hearts broken by manipulative males and it's all the guy's fault. Not only do I not listen to women like this, I run from them. If experience has yet to teach you that helpless victim syndrome is a MASSIVE red flag when looking for relationship material then you will eventually learn the hard way when you get taken for a ride. The fact that you're falling for their bullshit over and over and over again is why they try to come back to you after a failed relationship - they know that they can have their way with you and manipulate you any which way they damn well please.

And before you feed me some bullshit about "just gotta find the right woman and I won't have to worry about that", here's another dose of reality that experience will someday teach you the hard way. If you leave yourself wide open to be mistreated, you will be mistreated, period. The whole "right woman = no worries about being mistreated" bullshit is a hollywood fantasy made to sell to children, but it's so enticing that a lot of people carry the notion into adulthood with disastrous results. The reality is that everything you do, every attitude you have, and every response you make to the behavior of others is training them to treat you a certain way. That's the reality of the dynamic of human relationships. You have to train people to treat you right and keep the ones who are untrainable out of your world.

Ignore this advice at your own risk. The path you are on now will get you played, used, and taken for ride after ride after ride until you are a lifeless husk who's had his heart drained from his being.

[bob the brave]

There's a method to the madness behind the games these guys are playing, they affect women on a subconscious level, and that means any woman could potentially fall for them, regardless of her values and what she claims to look for in a guy. Also, 99.99999999% of women are lying when they try to convince you that they are these helpless victims having their hearts broken by manipulative males and it's all the guy's fault.

Yea, sadly I think you are right. But if players affect women on a subconscious level, doesn't that make them innocent victims?

[dickriculous]

Yea, sadly I think you are right. But if players affect women on a subconscious level, doesn't that make them innocent victims?

The bottom line is that if the woman consensually hooks up with these men she is not a victim, there is no offender/victim dichotomy between a man and a woman if the woman pursues him and tries to make something happen with him - for us men to create these offender/victim dichotomies and coddle the women as if they are always the victim is the attitude that makes us doomed to be taken advantage of until we wise up, that's the point I'm trying to get across and what you need to focus on.

If he beats, rapes, or kills her that's one thing but if she actively chases him and doesn't get what she wants? I don't think so. That's called life.

[bob the brave]

If he beats, rapes, or kills her that's one thing but if she actively chases him and doesn't get what she wants? I don't think so. That's called life.

This is what I don't get. I have seen a lot of women drawn to players knowing full well their reputation is true. They know they are going to be played and they enjoy the thrill of it. I can see it in their eyes. It's like they're boarding and amusement park ride. Then they ride as long as they can until he either dumps her, she gets tired of being treated like trash or she fears her reputation might be damaged. Then they run to anybody that will listen and cry foul to protect their ego and image.

I get what you mean about players training women to be used, while I train women to use me. But what I didn't get is why they want to be used? That's why I posed the question. It just seems like a really stupid way to act and so I thought I must be missing something.

Then I thought of this. As disparities in social liberties between men and women shrink, women are becoming less sexually inhibited and more promiscuous like men. But the problem is society still frowns on this. Promiscuous men are viewed adventerous while women are called whores. So, they cry foul because we give them no choice. Imagine if guys where frowned upon for having multiple partners, but where freely allowed to do it. Many would and cry foul to protect their image. I think when social liberties are truely equal women will take full responsibility for their actions and stop acting silly like this.

I also agree with your thoughts that our actions towards others trains them how to treat us. My philosophy was, if I am kind, generous and supportive and others are too, it will be a big beautiful world. Problem is when you cross paths with someone who does not share that philosophy you become a doormat. Experience has shown me that most people do not share this philosphy and hence I spend a lot of time being a doormat with relationships being only one part of the whole. Hence I have pretty much become the 'lifeless husk' to which you refer, wasting time asking 'why me' questions on love forums.

Why is growing up, a lot like drinking vinger?

[red-rasberry]

Your right to decline these girls after they have messed you about so first of all, good for you!
I know these kinds of guys straight away but then again that may be down to being around guys alot more than most girls.
Some girls seem to show more interest in guys like this because they are 'dangerous' or something new. Its a thrill and they get caught up in the game that these guys know how to play very well.
Keep looking for a decent girl, one who wont run off with the next player that shows up.
Not all girls are the same i promise, have faith in us. We arent all silly enough to throw away a good lad in exchange for a rotten one.

[dickriculous]

1)This is what I don't get. I have seen a lot of women drawn to players knowing full well their reputation is true. They know they are going to be played and they enjoy the thrill of it. I can see it in their eyes. It's like they're boarding and amusement park ride. Then they ride as long as they can until he either dumps her, she gets tired of being treated like trash or she fears her reputation might be damaged. Then they run to anybody that will listen and cry foul to protect their ego and image.

2) I get what you mean about players training women to be used, while I train women to use me. But what I didn't get is why they want to be used? That's why I posed the question. It just seems like a really stupid way to act and so I thought I must be missing something.

3) Then I thought of this. As disparities in social liberties between men and women shrink, women are becoming less sexually inhibited and more promiscuous like men. But the problem is society still frowns on this. Promiscuous men are viewed adventerous while women are called whores. So, they cry foul because we give them no choice. Imagine if guys where frowned upon for having multiple partners, but where freely allowed to do it. Many would and cry foul to protect their image. I think when social liberties are truely equal women will take full responsibility for their actions and stop acting silly like this.

4) I also agree with your thoughts that our actions towards others trains them how to treat us. My philosophy was, if I am kind, generous and supportive and others are too, it will be a big beautiful world. Problem is when you cross paths with someone who does not share that philosophy you become a doormat. Experience has shown me that most people do not share this philosphy and hence I spend a lot of time being a doormat with relationships being only one part of the whole. Hence I have pretty much become the 'lifeless husk' to which you refer, wasting time asking 'why me' questions on love forums.

1) Women are silly huh?

2) Daddy issues, emotional voids, emotional masochism, thrill of the chase, desire to change the bad boy and convert him to the light with her love, and all kinds of other crazy desires and drives...any of these or any combination of them could be a factor.

3) I disagree here. The bottom line is 95% of people will only conform to the standards that are imposed upon them by society and nothing more, they will do just enough to be accepted. And women are held to extremely low standards in our society regarding the way they are to treat men - that's why you have to create these standards yourself and hold women to them. On the other hand, if a man so much as calls a woman a bitch he's considered the lowest kind of scum. Put 2 and 2 together here and that's why so many women feel as free as they are to be manipulative and controlling if you don't actively put a stop to it.

Also, women are not more promiscuous now than they've been in the past. We call ourselves sexually liberated because it makes us feel enlightened and evolved but this is mostly an illusion. Do some research on ancient imperial rome, the "ukiyo" era of Japan, 18th century England, etc. These are times and places where sexual activity and the expression of human sexuality far surpassed anything going on in modern day America.

4) Ideally, the part in bold is how things would work. But in the real world you have to defend yourself from people who would take advantage of you for having this attitude. Here's my thing. I take no exception to holding doors open for women, protecting them when they are legitimately in need, helping them with housework, listening when they need someone to talk to, and just being all around chivalrous. I'll even cradle my gfs and/or female friends in my arms and carry them through a puddle of she doesn't want to walk through it. But experience has taught me that you can't act this way unconditionally, if you are going to treat women this way then you HAVE to hold them to reciprocal standards, there is no other way to stop yourself from being taken advantage of and taken for granted.

[BackUpOrGetStng]

Being friends first doesn't work, unless you were already friends with them. Meeting a new girl and then deciding you want to be friends and ease into a relationship is just ****ing stupid, and won't work. Make your intentions clear from the start or you'll continue to be the emotional tampon that you are.

[InYourFACE]

Maybe those with low self esteem like that.

But in general what a woman like is a men to hunt and "fight" to get her\
and to let her fall for him.

We love to be treat right and the lovely truth word's that comes out of a mens lips.

But players abuse that and use it to break woman's heart and to get them in bed.
There are sign that you can see that a guy is a loser or just interested.
But often a lot of woman dont pay attention to it . and by spreading your legs fast you cant see
the red flag's.
You dnt have to be a player to sweet talk a woman and to do your thing to have her.
Maybe you are to lay-back.

[smackie9]

OK this is how it works....the player is a challenge. If the girl gets the player to be with her, it makes her feel special that she is the chosen one and has tamed the beast. She feels that is she gives him her love she can change him, bring him to his knees. When he pulls away (the push and pull method) dopamine (the love chemical) is relased in the girl's brain, making her go after him more. So the more he pushes away the more dopamine is relased, the more she chases, loses all logical thinking, gets crazy, and then when it's all over they come down, and crash like a drug addict without a fix.