Advice Please. Thank you!

[CambridgeGuy]

Well my “ex” wasn’t technically my ex. We were never together romantically for many reasons. Mainly, I needed to find a job and get in shape. Those were my priorities when we first met. She also needed to finish school and get a job. I always knew that at some point that I would want more, but before any of that I needed to make sure that my priorities were taken care of first. We were going out to movies, dinner, lunch, walks, shopping etc. during the time when we were both “too busy” for a relationship. During this time I tried to push her away twice as we were competing for the exact same jobs and I didn’t want to get hurt as I knew that I would eventually fall for her if I continued to see her. I twice asked to not see her but she persisted to insist that we saw each other to prepare for job interviews. I was not in a really good, confident, space when I was seeing her and didn’t do the romantic things that I had done in the past with other girls (i.e., wining and dining) because I wanted to get in great shape and getting a job was number one priority. After I got a great job with her preparation she asked me to the movies and I thought that I needed to try to make some type of move as she was whispering in my ear etc. I tried to hold her hand but she refused saying “it was weird” . I was pretty hurt but still saw her as I felt it was only the right thing to do since she was there when I was looking for a job. We basically continue to act like we were bf and gf: going out to dinner, movies, walks, seeing each other for 10hrs/week. I continued with my great job and getting in shape during this time thinking I was going to start the romantic stuff when she got a job as it was not going to work out until she did. The turmoil and games of a romantic relationship while she was trying to get a job (adding more turmoil) would be to much for both her and I and if she doesn't get a job she might not be around for long.I was extending myself too much for her to get a job giving her my time, money, energy, and connections and was starting to get burned out. She has or had job interviews coming up (this was last week) and I knew she would want to meet and prepare. I was going to be busy that week so I texted her that I was not going to be available and asked her if she wanted to meet that day. She said she was really busy and could only come over for one hour. I said ok, “have a good day” but she persisted to see if we could meet. I asked her what was so important that she could only meet for an hour for that single time window and she refused to tell me. I felt disrespected as I tell her everything and have given so much to her finding a job and said that I deserved to know and that she treats me like a creep at times. I waited about 5 days after that and texted and called her but got no answer. I made a final text that said thx for being there for me, I care for you deeply, I am here for you, and good luck with everything This was 2 days ago and still no answer. She loves to text and would often text when we saw each other which bothered me so I know how important texting is these days. As i focused on my life and career I have forgotten how to be that romantic guy and want to get it back. I think she will eventually want to see me again and I want to be ready when she does. I am nearly at my goal of being in great shape ( I got the job I wanted) and want to seduce her when that time comes. I pray that she has found a job by then. I am worried that she will text before 30 days is up and that I shouldn’t ignore her. I just want to be ready for when we see each other so I can be the romantic guy that she wants but got lost in face the realities of life. I love her.

[Ladybuggg]

boring hat about using some enters?

[CambridgeGuy]

Hi Ladybuggg,

Thank you for your note. Yes, I have been quite boring. There is not excuse, but I just wasn't in the frame of mind to take chances and do something exciting. I definitely am now especially now that we are "broken up." My plan is to wait a few weeks then start to msg her and then see her.

What type of enters do you think would be good?

Thank you.

CambridgeGuy

[smackie9]

Like I said before you are friend zoned.... net step is into the abyss. Please read the ladder theory or the relationship ladder. Actually Cerby has posted an article about staying out of the friend zone.....it's o the main page...good reading for you.

[CambridgeGuy]

So there is no hope?

[smackie9]

Well for one thing, gaining a nice phyique isn't not your ticket to winning someone over.....never is. Women are attracted emotionally not like men who are more visually attrtacted. When a woman or girl wants a guy bad enough, they never let anything get in the way. They are never too busy to make time, or they will break the rules to be with their bad boy. So you are fighting a losing battle. Here's a tip.....never ever focus so much on one girl, never invest your feeling for someone you are not in a real relationship with. If you haven't established a romantic relationship by now...it ain't gonna happen. You should have moved on if you didn't see any real results with in a month or two. You have been at it for how long? It's been too long. Get real and ask other women out.

[CambridgeGuy]

Hi Smackie,

Thank you for your note. Yeh, this is true. I have been selfish in focusing on myself and not wanted to do anything to mess up all that I have worked for. Getting a great body is for me. Our meeting was really bad timing in that I was not willing to deal with a relationship, hence why I tried to push her away. My plan was that once things got worked out (I have on my side, she is still looking for a job) that I would try to escalate things. But I got a bit stuck in how we were interacting and had become used to having her around and depending on me. I'm actually kinda glad that things are a bit disturbed now. I'm think that if and when she decides she wants to see me, I will be ready to take the risk of taking things further. I think its actually a good sign that shes doesn't want to talk to me currently. I didn't do anything too bad that would cause "just friends" not to talk. She obviously is dealing with some strong emotions. I will not communicate for at least a month and wait till she contacts me. I think she will considering how much we have been through. She is smart and knows what is important and understand what I have been through and sacrificed. With the death of our old relationship (which is what i wanted i think is why i upset her) I have given myself a chance at what I really want. In the meantime ima start practicing on other girls so when she does come around i wont be rusty and if she truly is not interested (i dont think she is not interested at all) then I will have other options. All this being said, I do miss her and feel the pain, but its not that bad. It does make it harder to do my job which is why I didnt want to get into this with her when things were critical. Imagine if we were romantic and she is tripping out over her job and life and we break up. Then im really screwed. That is why i haven't done anything. I think there is still a chance and I have a good plan. I'm not going to give up on her until i have given my last shot which i think will be coming.

[CambridgeGuy]

Oh yeah, and we do go "out." Movies, dinner, etc. that is why it was hard to escalate b/c we act like we are in a relationship already. She has asked me out for drinks but i didnt want to deal with it at the time as i still working on my abs I think this is why the break will help me.

[CambridgeGuy]

What do you think?

[smackie9]

If you are not being "physical" with her (making out/sex) then it's just friends. If you read the ladder theory it says "There are times when the guy thinks he is a relationship, and doesn't know he is friend zoned".

[CambridgeGuy]

Thx for your message. Its been clear that we are and have been friends. That is not really what I am looking to figure out. Due to the above reasons that is what is best for both of us. I am more concerned about losing the friend, I'm not here to try to figure out how to get out of the friend zone. I know how to do that, I have just made a decision to hold off that attempt until she and I are more stable. Tbh this friend zone thing is not really all that you girls and guys make it out to be. It really is not that hard to get out of. (Sorry to break it to ya) That is why I am fine with it and will escalate when I think it is right as I am not here to try to figure out how to get into her pants but rather what is going through her mind. I know that is a bit different than most guys and can be difficult for you to understand, but that is the truth. Additionally, sometimes a relationship is really not the right thing for people and a male can make the decision to not push for what is not good but it seems you are missing that point as well.

Again, thank you for your input.

[smackie9]

You are missing the point....just because she is emotionally attached to you and enjoyed going out on dates doesn't mean she will ever want to be in a relationship with you no matter how much effort or when you think the time is right. Sure nothing wrong with taking a shot, BUT from my experience, I never had a desire to be in a romantic relationship with someone I had friend zoned.....not even a year or so down the road. Yes there is the rarest of occassions it can happen, but this takes bold communication on your part. If you sit around and keep plotting your plan, some dude is going to come along and sweep her of her feet.

The best thing to do is put it all out there, because there never is a better time than now. I always say, if you meet someone you want a relationship with, let them know your intensions asap of first meeting them....the longer you wait the lesser chance you have. If you are rejected then you saved yourself months of bs.

[CambridgeGuy]

Yeah I generally agree. This is not the ideal situation for me (or maybe it is?). I have never found myself in this type of interaction but I have never looked for a great job in a terrible economy with the only person to help me a beautiful smart woman. I needed her to help me get a job and she still needs me to help her. She is not going to be swept of her feet till she gets a job or deal with any time of romance. We might get drunk and hook up, but there is probably not going to be a relationship and I am not sure if I want to deal with that. Not sure if you have experience trying to get a great job in this economy or finishing your Ph.D at Harvard but these are really serious matters. How am I supposed to do mock interviews and help her while we are in a romantic relationship? Not smart and she knows that and expects me to know that was well. She is a very dedicated and goal driven person, not your standard woman who would allow for anything to get in her way, including getting swept of her feet or me and my agenda. That is why I am ok waiting. She was there for me during my tough times and I will be there for her. It is the best thing for both of us. At some point I will try to gradually move in. The all or nothing approach is a bad idea in this situation and also in general. The best approach is to gradually seduce her. This may take 10 min or it may take 10 weeks but it is still not all or nothing. In the meantime I am going to make more of an effort to date other women as I have put too much focus on her. I just want her to get a job sooo damn bad it kills me. Finally, the only real female friend that I did have ended being my gf so I have a different experience. If a guy has real good game, is in great shape (girls love abs and muscles btw, I don't believe you when you says it doesn't matter, at the very least is demonstrates discipline, self-control and self-respect), and is her best friend its not that hard to break out of the friend zone. You stop to think that I friend zoned her and not her me? Or is the cognitive dissonance to great to handle?

Thanks again.

[smackie9]

" at the very least is demonstrates discipline, self-control and self-respect" that is a males perspective....women don't look at it that way. Women judge, think, and decide with their emotions. I've met plenty of attractive men that "didn't have chemistry" for me to want to date them. With women it goes beyond looks...the female brain works differntly. Guys are pretty straight forward; see nice face, checks out body, goes in for a closer look, tries to catch her eye before the approach. Women; sees "guys" not just one, looks at hight, their shoes, hands, shoulders, checks for ring, looks at face and posture, compares to others nearby, wonders what kind of car he drives, what he has for a job, his favorite color, how many other women notice him, will he ask me to dance? how many ex GFs, is there a GF around?, wonders if he like kids, has a good relationship with his family, is he a cat or dog person, what kind of music does he like, does he play a sport, is he a momma's boy,etc etc etc. Our brains fire off in different directions.


When it comes to friend zoning women do it for different reasons than guys. With guys it's usually for purpose ie:nice to look at, gets to know you in hopes it could turn into a relationship. Women they do it to receive attention, emotional comfort, ego boosting and to help them with stuff like fixing their car, or help them move a couch, help them with studies, fix their computer, etc. A BF without benefits.

[CambridgeGuy]

Well that is good information. It may be true in the majority of cases, but what I am starting to realize that what I am dealing with is not the majority of cases. Additionally, each situation and interaction is unique. As in chess, the pieces move the same for each game but no two games are the same. I think what you share is very valuable, but you are just one person with one perspective. You can not possibly know everything about everyone in every situation. The fact is people change, emotions change, circumstances change. Change is the only constant in life. There is no hard and fast rules for anything especially when you are dealing with the most complex creatures on the planet. I really appreciate your feedback as it has helped me realize what I think is true and best for my situation which I have shared in my previous post. We are communicating again so I am fine with that. The fight/separation was good for me in that I started to think of things to do to not be so victim of her beliefs. I still don't think what I did was wrong. I really do care for her and want was is best for her. However, for some that makes them uncomfortable especially when they have been successful so far in being completely independent, but at some point in the real world, especially the business world, you have to learn to communicate well and work as a team. But at the end of the day it is her life and her decisions and I have to respect that.

Thank you.