Could there be hope??

[clarabellew]

I'm hoping you lovely people out there can give me your thoughts on my situation, which I feel like I've just completely lost my way with.

In a nutshell, got together with my husband at work in December 2009, had a daughter together in August 2011 and got married in October 2011. I'm now 31, he's now 42.

Everything seemed to be pretty much fine, I thought, but he walked out on us in October last year (following a big argument). His reason for doing so was that I didn't treat him with any respect, I spoke to him like dirt and I took him for granted. I acknowledged all these problems and have been working on bettering myself (and for me, and my family, and my friends as well as him). He said he needed space, so I gave him that. Then he said we needed to learn to be friends again, as sometimes we spoke to each other in ways in which we wouldn't even speak to our friends (fair point). Then he said we needed to learn not to argue. The he said he would make the decision and come back when he wanted to. Then he said he needed space. Then be friends. Then not argue. Then space. And so on. During this time, he began socialising a fair bit with some new(ish) friends that at 21 - 23 years old (so possibly going through a mid life crisis). He also came and stayed over with me a number of times.

About a month ago, he withdraw almost completely from me. He didn't acknowledge or give any reason for this, just said he was fine when asked. Eventually, he admitted that he was mad with me because I kept talking to my Mum and to his Dad about us, and he had asked me several times not to. We seem to sort it out, although he remained distant. I guess I then kind of lost my patience and told him either we talk about things in terms of trying to get back together or I will file for divorce. I admit, I had no intentions of doing so, it was a threat. He then got really mad and he instructed solicitors to start divorce proceedings; I know this because the solicitors were due to advise me but called me to say they couldn't as he had just instructed them. When I managed to get him to speak to me, he said again that it was because I kept talking to people about us behind his back and because I had in the past lied to him and he couldn't get passed that (I am not aware of any lies and this is the first time he has brought it up). I asked him clearly, several times, if he no longer loved me but he refused to answer the question. I left it at that. Since then, I have no contact with any of his family whatsoever and I rarely talk to my Mum about us.

I let a week or two go by with virtually no contact (only regarding our daughter). We remained amicable when we needed to contact each other. Gradually, over the last two weeks or so, I have begun to try and initiate a bit more; you know, randomly texting and asking how he is, but keeping the conversation brief so as to not pester him. He is responsive to it. And we still work together; I have noticed that he has started to call, email and pop in to see me more frequently regarding work issues, but they are not always necessary (sometimes I think it's an excuse to contact me). However, certainly outside of work, whilst he is responsive to me, he doesn't initiate contact (which he did at the very beginning of all this).

My Mum sat chatting to him on Monday night (she cares for our daughter whilst we are at work) and had the opportunity to ask him how things were with us (remember, as far as he's concerned, we don't talk about him any more). He thought about it for a while and then told her that we are getting on a lot better than we have done for a while. But he still needs to sort out things in his head. He gets scared every time we start to get close again, because I then start to push him and he's just not ready right now. He told her he doesn't like or respond well to ultimatums, she could ask any of his family and they'd tell her the same, so he really didn't like me doing that to him. He never mentioned the solicitors or anything. And then he changed the subject, so she thought better of pushing it.

We had a really positive meeting yesterday, with a number of other colleagues and got on well. Today. I got back to my office from lunch and he messaged me asking if I was in the office this afternoon as he had some papers for me. Firstly, he could have either put them in the internal post, or dropped them off with any of the girls I share an office with. When he came over, he gave me the paperwork and stayed for a while and chatted about random work stuff, but nothing important. He was very.... intense with me? Although the two girls I work along side we chatting with us to, he was paying close attention to me, really focusing on me. He did not act uninterested towards like he has done in the past. He really looked at me, you know, with that kind of burning look that couples do? Eventually he headed back to his own office.

Couple of things to note: I have still not heard from solicitors, so I believe he told them he doesn't wish to proceed right now (when he divorced from his first wife, he did that several times and she ended up divorcing him). He still has stuff at my house. He still has post delivered to my house and he is still at my local doctors. He has not given any indication on Facebook that we have separated and indeed, his Facebook profile had pictures and statuses about us all over it. Oh, and he still pays my loan and TV Licence.

Right now, I'm confused. Surely if it was over, he would have just got on with sorting it all out? You know, get his stuff, let people know, sort the divorce (especially as that's what he said he was going to do). Or is there hope???

[basilandthyme]

Eventually, he admitted that he was mad with me because I kept talking to my Mum and to his Dad about us, and he had asked me several times not to.
(Snip)
My Mum sat chatting to him on Monday night (she cares for our daughter whilst we are at work) and had the opportunity to ask him how things were with us (remember, as far as he's concerned, we don't talk about him any more).

So, you're still talking to your mum despite him not wanting you to and lying to him about it. As soon as he finds out about this latest breach of his trust, any good work you've done will all come unravelled and you'll be back to where you started.

If you make a promise, you need to KEEP it. If you feel that you can't do what he wants, then be honest and say 'no' to his request. But while you're lying to him, nothing will change.

[Wakeup]

You've separated but you're not separated so don't hold too much hope that just because he's not sent you divorce papers yet that there is still hope. I'm not saying there is no hope, but just that, that is no reason to hope.

Have you thought anything about going to councelling to try and learn how to communicate and how to reconcile the emotional wedge that has been driven between the two of you? It's unclear why he left other than the fact you need someone to vent to because you're not getting along. Everyone needs someone to talk to, if they didn't, forums wouldn't exist. He himself talked about you two to your mother. If he didn't want it out there what was going on with you two then he should have kindly told her that he didn't want to discuss it.

Do you have any reason to believe that he may be seeing someone else? I ask because it's obvious he likes younger women (you're 11 years younger yourself) so that may be why he's hanging with such a young "newish" group of people.

Anyway, enough speculating. How would the two of you feel about gettng some professional help with figuring out whats going on with him, really. A therapist will help you to communicate without making him feel that you're degrading him or "talking to him like he was dirt" as well. What was going on with you, what was he doing that made you feel you needed to lash out at him?

[clarabellew]

I know, WakeUp. That's what is driving me mad. There are signs that it may not be over, such as not collecting his stuff, no signs of divorce papers, etc. but on the other hand, he did move out, he's not yet trying to sort things out and were no further forward. It's a constant battle in my head and I will never be able to answer it.

I did try to suggest counselling a couple of times, when we had really been at loggerheads, but that probably wasn't the right time to suggest it. I even went for a session of counselling on my own, to look at my issues with the relationship; the counsellor advised that it may be useful for us to go together, but only when he's ready. I haven't broached it since. I thought I would try first to address the most obvious issues he has myself; try to be pleasant and be his friend, not cause any kind of argument, not lie to him, not push him, etc. That has been working well for a month now, and with him telling my Mum that we are getting on better, it's obviously the right way to be going.

Could it just be that he really is going to need plenty of time? He has said himself that he has to sort his own head out, and I don't think the problems in there are all relating to me and our marriage (he really seems to have an issue with his age, he has issues with his childhood and he has said to me before that he doesn't know who he is any more). If it was truly over and that was what he wanted, would he not just get on with his life?

To answer the question about another woman - I am confident there isn't one. There are absolutely no indications that there is. Also, he on the whole is not in a happy place right now - any one can see that. If there was someone else in his life, would he not be in that new relationship / honeymoon phase (even if he tried to hide it)? Also, he has because a little scruffier since we separated; nothing major, but he doesn't shave very often, his finger nails are a mess, etc. I would have thought that he'd make sure he was tidy if he had someone new?

And yes - he does talk my mother. And his Dad. And his new pals (who have since circulated it around the University that we work at!). As with many things in this situation, it's one rule for me and another rule for him.

Oh, and in terms of what sparked all of this? An argument about getting a sofa through a door way; he got impatient and nasty because he thought it wouldn't go through, I tried to be reasonable and see how we could get round it. The argument escalated, we both said nasty things, he ended up walking out. I kid you not. There is a wider context, however - the same week was his daughters 21st birthday (and she won't have anything to do with him or any contact with him), it was his 42nd birthday and it was the anniversary of his mothers death (7 years ago, cancer), which he still struggles with. He was also very much under pressure at work.

[Wakeup]

Seems he's the one that holds all the cards and you're expected to just sit in limbo until he gets his shit together one way or the other.. Unless of course you take your life into your own hands and you do the first filing to make your separation legal and binding???

I can't tell you what to do but If I were you, I'd keep going to councelling on my own or take some classes on how to effectively communicate my own wants and needs so that it doesn't escalate into WWIII. Then I'd ask for a meeting after I've figured out what it is *I* want and then if he couldn't deliver.. Then I'd do said filing. It's totally unfair this limbo he's placed you both in.

[clarabellew]

Well, counselling is expensive, but I am doing lots of research and online work to better myself and stuff. Not just for him, but for me, my Mum and my two girls.

I guess I haven't yet figured out what I want. I will not lie to you - I do still love him. Of course, I would like him to come back; for me and also for our family, although I don't want that to be the only reason.

My gut feeling, given everything (and in my two posts in this thread I have been honest and told you everything), I think he'll come back. He's the sort of person that would have finalised everything ASAP, especially if he had someone new. But other than move out, he hasn't done anything really to make it all official and stuff.

But until he works out his issues, and what he wants, I am going to get on with my life. That's all I can do I guess....