What was going on here? Is this a hopeless situation?

[southerngreek]

Hi all, thanks for taking time to read my post.

I started seeing a girl in February of this year who goes to grad school with me. Immediately after we met, she started talking to me a lot, calling daily, wanting to hangout, etc. Eventually we started seeing each other. We'd go to dinners, art shows, out drinking, happy hours, hooking up, and she'd do things like ask me to skip class so we could go walking by the water or something. I took her to a wedding with me in April, where she insisted we post pictures of us kissing on Facebook. We hadn't discussed what we were doing, but she kept wanting to see each other, and we were having fun, so I didn't think anything of it. I enjoyed her company.

Shortly after we started hanging out, random people from our school began warning me that she was a user and immature, and I needed to be careful to associate with her. She didn't have many friends and seemed to have lost all of the ones she had. No one really had anything nice to say about her when I asked around after the warnings. I don't normally take gossip seriously, so I thought nothing of it and continued seeing her. In May after exams, we went out for drinks, and met my friends for a dinner party afterwards. During the dinner, all my friends started asking her about what we were doing. I had told them we weren't dating, but of course they had to ask. She seemed cool that night, but the next morning, she texted me and said she was embarrassed to have to answer those questions and we shouldn't hang out except in groups now if people were going to gossip. I said fine, and she left town for the summer. We didn't speak after that.

In late June, she called me out of the blue to ask how I was doing. Eventually she asked me if I would see her over the 4th of July holiday and whether I would go with her to a cookout with 3 of her friends and their fiancees. I didn't go with her to the dinner but I saw her that morning. Eventually, she started coming on weekends during the summer to see me and we'd hang out all weekend. She started asking me if I would take her on trips, and she even tried to invite herself to come with me to New York to meet my best friends, which I told her no because, well, we weren't dating...

In late August, I heard that she had slept with a delivery man who she didn't know. I was at a cookout and drinking, and of course everyone started telling me how foolish I was. Against my better judgment, I decided to confront her. I told her I had been warned she was a user and felt she was using me for what I could do for her and she didn't care for me at all. She said I had no right to judge and she was proud of herself for sleeping with that guy because he was cute. I told her I wasn't going to keep entertaining her like I had been doing if she was just going to sleep around and I was sorry I defended her so often when people had told me to avoid her. She asked me to come over and talk and stay with her, but I declined and said I was too drunk. She countered by saying to leave her alone then and that she was going to block me.

The next day, I tried apologizing, but ended up saying something wrong and she got angry and she blocked me on FB too.

Last week, after a month of not speaking, I emailed her an apology. I didn't ask her to talk to me, but I told her I had no right to judge her and she deserved better behavior out of me than that. I haven't heard anything from her. A friend of mine told me she was only interested in what I could do for her and she didn't actually value me as a friend or anything else. She's never dated before in her life and only has had flings with men much older than her (she's 24, she told me about flings she's had with men as old as 45, usually doctors or men with money).

So I ask you, girls, what was going on here? I acted way out of line at the end, but was I entirely wrong to be sort of confused about our situation? I really didn't want a relationship since we were both graduating in May and unsure where we will live, but I kinda felt hurt over all of this. I did a lot for this girl, and she sort of tossed me away. I miss the times we had together, but maybe that was all a farce.

Is it best just to leave her alone and chalk it up? I'm not sure if we will ever speak again. Doesn't seem like it right now. Maybe I am better off?

[smackie9]

You were never official to begin with so no one was using anyone. Like she said you two were just having fun enjoying each other's company, no commitment. You just can't assume anything unless you discuss it. When you both parted ways during the summer, and didn't communicate, the fling was over and you both were free to boink anyone you wanted. Who she had sex with and how it was done is none of your business or anyone else's.

Those people who stood around and called her a user don't understand what casual dating is obviously. Just because it's something they don't do, doesn't mean it's wrong. So however she wants to date, is not for anyone to judge.

Next time when you start seeing someone, don't assume, verbally express your intensions and expectations beofre proceeding....simple as that.

[southerngreek]

You were never official to begin with so no one was using anyone. Like she said you two were just having fun enjoying each other's company, no commitment. You just can't assume anything unless you discuss it. When you both parted ways during the summer, and didn't communicate, the fling was over and you both were free to boink anyone you wanted. Who she had sex with and how it was done is none of your business or anyone else's.

Those people who stood around and called her a user don't understand what casual dating is obviously. Just because it's something they don't do, doesn't mean it's wrong. So however she wants to date, is not for anyone to judge.

Next time when you start seeing someone, don't assume, verbally express your intensions and expectations beofre proceeding....simple as that.

I don't know what she did during the time we weren't speaking this summer. She told me she didn't see anyone while she was away and I never even asked her that. She slept with the stranger after we started seeing each other again. She had made it a point to tell me she wasn't seeing anyone but me otherwise.

Anyway, you're right in that I screwed up. I suppose it's best to let it go. If she ever wants to talk, she knows where to find me. I don't know if we could ever be friends again after what happened, but stranger things have happened. I just wish she'd speak to me again.

[mollymari]

Well aren't friends grand. Sounds like both you and her had certain 'energies' working against you from the start. Hey, what does your spidey sense tell you? From what you've said the impression I get of her is that she's rather shy, perhaps insecure and she counters this by attempting extreme and reckless behavior. Perhaps you were her 'night in shining armor' so to speak. Granted, this doesn't mean she didn't have an agenda of some sorts. She knew how your friends felt about her, what you would hear, what they would say. Perhaps she pushed you a little here to get a better idea of your true character. She sounds protective of herself; maybe a tough life thus so far and she's use to people dissing her. Could be she needed and escape route but this doesn't mean she didn't harbour genuine feelings for you. Her actions, ie.sleeping with the 'cute' boy as she says could be her way of making the decision for you. She knew you were in all likelihood going to kick her to the curb; she just sped up the process. What's the saying? 'treat someone like a monster long enough and they'll become one'
I can't help but to feel for this situation. Your friends wanted to protect you. I get this. and only you and her know the connection felt. Let me ask you this. If your friends had been supportive of this girl, would things be different now?

[smackie9]

Why would you wish to have her speak to you again? It won't change what happened and nothing will become of you two anyways, so it's totally a waste of your time clinging onto her.

Do something positive with your time, go out and meet someone that has the same true intentions that will fill your life with love and happiness.

[southerngreek]

Well aren't friends grand. Sounds like both you and her had certain 'energies' working against you from the start. Hey, what does your spidey sense tell you? From what you've said the impression I get of her is that she's rather shy, perhaps insecure and she counters this by attempting extreme and reckless behavior. Perhaps you were her 'night in shining armor' so to speak. Granted, this doesn't mean she didn't have an agenda of some sorts. She knew how your friends felt about her, what you would hear, what they would say. Perhaps she pushed you a little here to get a better idea of your true character. She sounds protective of herself; maybe a tough life thus so far and she's use to people dissing her. Could be she needed and escape route but this doesn't mean she didn't harbour genuine feelings for you. Her actions, ie.sleeping with the 'cute' boy as she says could be her way of making the decision for you. She knew you were in all likelihood going to kick her to the curb; she just sped up the process. What's the saying? 'treat someone like a monster long enough and they'll become one'
I can't help but to feel for this situation. Your friends wanted to protect you. I get this. and only you and her know the connection felt. Let me ask you this. If your friends had been supportive of this girl, would things be different now?

I'm sure had they liked her, it would have been different. The problem I always had was I could never take her around them because they told me she was immature and used people and was incapable of actually caring for someone, so when she did hang out with us, it always ended badly, as it was obvious they didn't want her around and she always acted strangely, like being super quiet and sticking near me.

And my friends mean the world to me. I pick them carefully, most are great people who are well liked in our grad school and well respected, so when they tell me something, I do listen. They knew more about her than I did before we met, so I still to this day have no idea what all she did our first year in grad school. I never asked. I just knew there were A LOT of people who once called her a friend who no longer associate with her.

I enjoyed her company, so I felt maybe that period of her life was over. I treated her well though - I took her places and introduced her to people that have been in my life for a long time, and they liked her, and she handled herself well, and a lot of them wanted to see more of her in the future. And then this happened and I wrongly flipped out, and here we are, not speaking to each other, acknowledging we exist, etc. It sucks. I hate it, but while I wish I could fix it, I also think it may be for the best since we run in such different circles.

And you nailed her personality - she DOES suffer from anxiety issues. She told me she had seen a therapist at some point, so I knew all about it. Unfortunately, I wasn't thinking the night I got angry. I may never be able to fix that mistake, but I hope some day I can, not to say things will ever go back to how they were. I don't know what else to do though.

[mollymari]

TIME. This needs time.
Perhaps you two can salvage a good friendship after some wounds have healed up.
Have you ever gone to a social gathering where most of the people didn't like you and the energy was palpable? No wonder she stuck close and quiet. Well, if you two do ever get another chance at friendship or something else, I'd shelter her from the judgemental buddies. Dealing with Social Darwinism isn't easy at the best of times.
Granted, advice from buddies is a good thing if it is wholehearted. What matters really is how YOU feel about her, not them.
I wish you both the best possible outcome.

[southerngreek]

TIME. This needs time.
Perhaps you two can salvage a good friendship after some wounds have healed up.
Have you ever gone to a social gathering where most of the people didn't like you and the energy was palpable? No wonder she stuck close and quiet. Well, if you two do ever get another chance at friendship or something else, I'd shelter her from the judgemental buddies. Dealing with Social Darwinism isn't easy at the best of times.
Granted, advice from buddies is a good thing if it is wholehearted. What matters really is how YOU feel about her, not them.
I wish you both the best possible outcome.

For sure, it needs time. Probably until the holidays at least, for her to get over what I said to her. The sad thing is, though, is my spider sense tells me that the only way she will come back and want to talk is if she gets bored with whoever are her friends now. She told me in July after we split for 2 months that she missed my humor and how I treated her. I know I was too good to her in all likelihood and far different than anyone else she had been with. I am pretty confident in that. Maybe that scared her and that's why she pulled away - she likely has commitment issues considering she's never had a relationship.

Anyway, I hope there does come a time in the next few months where we can finally burry the hatchet and talk again, I'd feel a lot better. I'm not one to lose friends. It bothers me all the time that I did what I did, but again, I know even if I hadn't, things wouldn't be the same today as they were this summer and certainly not the same as last fall. I just hate the current awkwardness of not looking at each other/talking/etc, because we are still in the same classes. But I have no idea how to fix things unless she decides she wants to, and that may take months or her new crop of friends growing tired of her.

As for my friends, I already sheltered her as much as I could from them, but her insistence at broadcasting our whereabouts together on Facebook and other outlets always tipped them off. The real kicker was us kissing at the wedding in April. I have no idea why she wanted to post that, but that's when all the big questions started coming in about what we were doing and the warnings from everyone who had known her.

If she hadn't wanted a relationship, I have no idea why she would have been so adamant about stuff like that, unless she did it for a reputation bump.

[basilandthyme]

Just deleted and replaced my post........

I just read your last line above - I thought it was YOU who didn't want a relationship. But it was her who didn't want one?

Can you give a bit more info on that please?

[southerngreek]

Just deleted and replaced my post........

I just read your last line above - I thought it was YOU who didn't want a relationship. But it was her who didn't want one?

Can you give a bit more info on that please?

Neither one of us ever discussed a relationship. The way I saw it, we were graduating soon and as someone who started dating a girl my senior year of undergrad only to fail at long distance, I didn't want to jump back into that again. Her actions kept making me think she wanted more with all I discussed above. I should have talked to her about what she wanted from me after what happened in May, but unfortunately I took her back no questions asked and we picked up where we left off in July.

She would say we were just seeing each other, which I was fine with, and she would always tell me how she was seeing no one else, etc, and kept pushing harder for things like trips together and other couples activities that would make anyone assume we were together. I guess I grew to like her a lot and felt her reputation was unwarranted. I cared for her, but when I heard of the reckless one night stand with a stranger, I felt like my friends were right and I was being used all along by her.

Strangely enough, I don't know a lot about her. She has no relationship with her mother and treats her father like a doormat. I don't know who her friends are sans for one new friend she sees all the time this year.

I guess I simply am upset with myself over this, for saying those things to her, and yeah, I do miss her company on occasion. We got along really well and people outside of our grad school liked us together. I just see this as a hopeless situation to fix, but maybe with time, we will be able to revisit this and at least build a friendship. The problem is, I don't see her as the forgiving type. She wanted to talk immediately following our fight, but since cut me off, so maybe that was literally my only chance to save whatever we had.

I don't know. I feel better after apologizing last week, but her nonresponse was kind of disappointing, if not expected.

[mollymari]

Huh. Reading your last post, well, got a few red flags there my cyber space anonymous fellow poster. Like why she posted all that stuff on FB, pics, places, times you two hung out and where. Hhmm. I don't know. I've always cheered for the underdog so to speak but after reading more, I don't know.
Hey, this is a personal question and of course it goes without saying you need not share but you keep mentioning how bad you feel over something you said to her. Something hurtful. Well, what did you say? No judgements here, well, nothing negative anyway.
Perhaps your friends at Grad School have merit in their concerns for your well being. I'm sorry to say.
Hey, if this IS someone meant for you, Is someone good for you, your inner ache and longing for her would be HUGE, undeniable and not just on occasion.
Indeed, time will tell.
I can only say, when it is the right person, you'll both just know; and nothing will get in the way of that union, nothing. It will be natural, easy, ever so comfortable and wonderful.

If she treats her Father poorly, another red flag man.
Just don't allow this experience to jade future times. Lots of really great ladies out there; be selective, objective and never lose sight of your spidey sense.

[southerngreek]

Yeah, why did she post all of that if she didn't want people to think we were together? Why did she want to go on trips, go to events, and the like? It just made no sense to me. I was constantly telling others we weren't a couple but her actions just raised more questions. And she acted so surprised when she heard rumors.

I told her the night of the fight that I felt she was using me, and I had been warned many times about that but always defended her, and I was tired of doing it when it was apparent I was only good for what I could do for her and she felt nothing more for me than that. I said I thought she was better than to sleep with a random stranger and I wasn't comfortable with her if she was going to do that. I told her I was no longer going to be her stand in boyfriend while she searched around for other random people to make herself feel like she's wanted by everyone. She told me she didn't want me to defend her, she was proud of herself and I was only jealous because she got laid by someone else. Afterwards, she wanted me to come over and talk it out and stay with her, but I declined, as I had been drinking. She immediately told me to leave her alone then and to never approach or talk to her again, because my words were hurtful and unwarranted.

I am sure my friends have merit. There were pushing me to end it with her by this month because they felt the longer she was around, the higher chance she'd do something to hurt me would happen. I wish I had listened to them long ago. I don't know. I am not looking to return to the way things were. I just want to not have this awkwardness. I very rarely lose friends or have real enemies. That said, I know I am not in the wrong here. It was wrong to judge her, but if I had done what she did, I am sure she would have been angry as well. I just want a dialogue with her again. I except that will take time before she is willing to talk again, if she ever does.

And you're right about great girls. I have had a chance to date several wonderful girls who I still keep in touch with to this day. It's amazing how mature they are compared to this situation.

[mollymari]

^^ Yeah, you sound like one of those fellas who can go through an entire lifetime without making one person mad at them. Well, guess what.
It is okay to take a stand for ones self and okay if that in turn renders a fall out. Hey, keep the energy around you good; and if it isn't, it is your divine right as a human being to do what you have to to fix this.
Telling her what you told her even speckled with a few swear words, a raised voice and possibly arms flaring, it wasn't that bad. You had valid concerns and every right to express them.
Rise above as it sounds like you have and good on your pals to have your back.
As far as the girl goes, well , right now she's a little damaged and only time will tell how things go.
good luck and keep that bar HIGH
JGJ

[southerngreek]

^^ Yeah, you sound like one of those fellas who can go through an entire lifetime without making one person mad at them. Well, guess what.
It is okay to take a stand for ones self and okay if that in turn renders a fall out. Hey, keep the energy around you good; and if it isn't, it is your divine right as a human being to do what you have to to fix this.
Telling her what you told her even speckled with a few swear words, a raised voice and possibly arms flaring, it wasn't that bad. You had valid concerns and every right to express them.
Rise above as it sounds like you have and good on your pals to have your back.
As far as the girl goes, well , right now she's a little damaged and only time will tell how things go.
good luck and keep that bar HIGH
JGJ

I have ticked people off in my day, don't worry. I stand up for myself, but normally the friends I make aren't the type that will piss me off. I chose well.

And yeah, I don't think what I said to her was ALL that bad. I didn't curse at her or anything. She said it was the most hurtful and unwarranted thing she has ever heard, and I'm not sure if she was exaggerating or whether no one has ever told her how they felt before. I am thinking the ladder. I know I probably hurt her with what I said.

For now, I will leave it alone. I expect in a few months she will come around, but sadly it will be because of she's likely bored and no other reason. Looking back to May, she only reopened the lines of communication because she needed something to do on the 4th of July. I don't know. I guess I miss what we had, but it would have never been the same knowing what I know now. I just want a conversation with her. She's so much better than what she acts like. It just upsets me. I expect she will come back in time and want to talk in time. I do thank my friends for looking out for me though. I just need to fix this eventually. I guess time is my friend

[mollymari]

Indeed man. Good on you. If nothing else, your presence in her life has given her pause for thought. She may have needed to hear what you had to say and perhaps she'll gain insight, have an epiphany of sorts due in large to your brute truth.
Don't let her use you. You know this already.
I feel for her, I do. I can't help but to feel that if she could see herself through your eyes, she'd stop the facade of questionable behaviors and shed the shit so to speak; become herself again.
But this is not your responsibility; she'll either get there on her own or not get there at all.

Hey, you got to share some time with this girl and she got to share some with you. Perhaps through this, she'll realize not everyone is out to get her.