Sexual frustration

[nameuser]

Hello. First time poster.

I don't normally seek help for issues like this. But this is really frustrating me and I could use some non-generic advice from someone who feels in-tune with self-esteem issues.

Simply put, I'm having trouble with the ladies (I'm a 23 y/o heterosexual male). I have a decent history of sexual experience going back to high school but in recent months-maybe a year- I have been striking out constantly. I'm not particularly nervous around females and I believe they generally like my personality - at least the one's that are into nerdy types.

But I am not exuding a sexuality that attracts women my age. I am relatively short (maybe 5'7) and admittedly no Brad Pitt. But I also don't think I'm so unattractive that it should actively deter women who seem to otherwise find me interesting. I suppose a simple way to put it: I'm getting "friend zoned" and I don't know how to stop it.

For example, I am just now getting back from a coffee date with a girl I met through the internet (not online dating, just someone I had an interesting fb chat with from my school). I feel like we had a great conversation and she seemed to genuinely appreciate my listening skills and find me interesting in return. But by the end, I could tell I was friend zoned and seemed as though she simply didn't see me as a sexual figure.

I hate to talk about women this way, but I did feel as though she was in my league, aesthetically speaking (and I guess I don't feel bad saying that since she probably politely brushed me off based on my looks).

I feel as though it's something about my personality. I tend to be very caring and supportive which I think marks me as a non-sexual male figure. I know that dominant opinion would simply say "nice guys finish last" but I don't particularly want to believe that.

Does anyone have an opinion? It's really killing my self-esteem and leading me to want to give up and just collect cats.

[smackie9]

Ask a female friend. I couldn't really tell you unless we met in person.

[basilandthyme]

As a girl who's always been attracted to 'nice guys' (and my friends are the same), I can tell you that they don't finish last. So it's not that.

When you're with a girl you're interested in, do you flirt? Be a bit sexy? Touch her arm when you're talking? Raise your eyebrow at the occasional innuendo? If you want more than friendship, she's got to see you as potentially more than a friend.

[nameuser]

I guess I need to work on it. As someone who likes nice guys, what do you find sexy that can be conveyed in a conversation? I've always felt like you shouldn't touch a women unless you absolutely know she wants you to - not sure I would feel comfortable with that. Is there something more natural that you would suggest?

[smackie9]

Women like challenge, being a good listener tells me you are acting to attentive, too available, too eager to show that you would make a great BF. Not what a girl wants to see in the beginning. Strong, silent, aloof, distant, and being mysterious is what gets a girl to look harder.....make then earn your attention. Sounds to me you put too much of yourself out there, thinking they need to see this nice guy you are. Sorry but it's a turn off, you need to do the opposite of what you have been doing.

[Wakeup]

There is a difference between a "nice guy" and a "good guy." Nice guys make good platonic friends. "Good Guys" have a life outside of women, they are good partners but they don't give up their own identities to accommodate a woman, they have the ability to say "no" to something instead of giving in to a woman's silly whim... In other words, the have personal boundaries that make them attractive. A good guy with an edge.. not a "nice guy" who over-compensates is what most women with their own healthy sense of self and with personal boundaries look for.

[nameuser]

Definitely appreciate the help. But I would actually say stoic probably describes me pretty well and I don't really put that much out there. When I listen, i just try to let them say what they want and remain interactive. It's difficult when they're boring (and I don't look for a relationship if I find them as such, just to be polite) but I'm pretty good at it when I can contribute to the conversation and find it interesting - today's encounter was a lot of her talking and me being responsive and engaging.

But to be aloof in that type of conversation though... Idk.... I feel like that's straying into intentional jerk territory which is just not me.

But I do appreciate your help and honesty. Don't want to seem like I'm dismissing your advice (there's the nice guy again).

- - - Updated - - -

There is a difference between a "nice guy" and a "good guy." Nice guys make good platonic friends. "Good Guys" have a life outside of women, they are good partners but they don't give up their own identities to accommodate a woman, they have the ability to say "no" to something instead of giving in to a woman's silly whim... In other words, the have personal boundaries that make them attractive. A good guy with an edge.. not a "nice guy" who over-compensates is what most women with their own healthy sense of self and with personal boundaries look for.

I suppose I agree with that. But your description of nice guy doesn't really fit me.

[basilandthyme]

I guess I need to work on it. As someone who likes nice guys, what do you find sexy that can be conveyed in a conversation? I've always felt like you shouldn't touch a women unless you absolutely know she wants you to - not sure I would feel comfortable with that. Is there something more natural that you would suggest?

Sexy isn't in the conversation. It's the body language which conveys your sexiness. This is why I'm talking about a raised eyebrow to acknowledge an innuendo or touching her hand/arm to emphasise a point. Touch the small of her back when you're going through a door. A woman wants to feel desired by you, but verbalising it too early on just makes you look sleazy.

Smackie said "Strong, silent, aloof, distant, and being mysterious is what gets a girl to look harder". For what it's worth, I'm the complete opposite of this. I'm attracted to the type of guy who's chatty, open, tells me about himself and his passions.....and yes, who crosses the touch barrier. I guess it just shows how different attributes attract different women.

[searock]

I did feel as though she was in my league, aesthetically speaking (and I guess I don't feel bad saying that since she probably politely brushed me off based on my looks).

Just because you think she isn't more attractive than you doesn't mean that she *must* be attracted to you. "League" isn't a term that works, when describing sexual attraction. You are either attracted to someone, or you aren't. How close your perceived attractiveness of them is to your perceived attractiveness of yourself is no indicator of how attractive they will think you are.

Anyway, I think you should be more forward with girls you are interested in. Flirt, let them know that you are interested in a sexual way and not just as friends. Be flirty and tease them a bit, start the playful banter that will naturally lead to playful touching.

[michelle23]

You shouldnt change who you are or doubt yourself. Sometimes your just not compatible or not her type. It doesnt mean there is something wrong with you. I think you just need to make your intentions more clear and make it more obvious your not just looking for friendship. The right girl will come along

[HeartIsAching]

There is a difference between a "nice guy" and a "good guy." Nice guys make good platonic friends. "Good Guys" have a life outside of women, they are good partners but they don't give up their own identities to accommodate a woman, they have the ability to say "no" to something instead of giving in to a woman's silly whim... In other words, the have personal boundaries that make them attractive. A good guy with an edge.. not a "nice guy" who over-compensates is what most women with their own healthy sense of self and with personal boundaries look for.

I've always said that 'Nice Guys' will do what it takes to soothe hurt feelings... and 'Good Guys' will do what needs to be done, even if it's unpleasant.

[dem862]

What makes you think she wasn't interested in you? Some women might jump into the sack on the first date, but the vast majority will not. You have to show a little bit of persistence and enthusiasm if you expect to get anywhere. It sounds like you are giving up without a decent attempt. Many women like to be pursued and seduced a little bit. I wouldn't be so quick to blame it on your personality. Perhaps your expectations are realistic.