Should I stay or should I go? (Very Long Post)

[SnackAttack]

As I said, this is quite long. I thank you for any help.

I met my girlfriend in the summer of 2013 (over 1.5 years ago) through an online dating site. Our chemistry was immediate and soon led to romantic road-trips, passionate intimacy, and an undeniable mutual desire. Without delving into too much detail, suffice to say we went ‘all-in’ during this time and it continued for several months. Now, nearly a year and half into our relationship, I am considering ending it all and moving on for several reasons. Most notably, despite my appreciation and love for her, I am having trouble trusting her.

Why don’t I just end it then? Well, I can’t tell if my mistrust is rational or if I being the same over-thinking, beta guy I have always been. Over the course of our almost-18 months together, we have shared great memories, and built what I consider a ‘mini’ family (me, her, the dog). On the other hand, enough red-flags have come up to set off my ‘bullsh*t’ alarm and cause concern. I’ll address each individually:

Early Warnings

Two occurrences early in our relationship stirred my discomfort. The first occurred on the night we first met (a year and a half ago). When I walked her back to her apartment from the bar, a man approached us from the parking lot. He walked up to us, stared at me and said in an irritated voice, “Hi..”. He then paced around the apartment entrance and went inside when someone opened the door. I had no idea who it was until the next morning: it was her ex-boyfriend.

The next morning, I received an odd text. Apparently, she gave him my number to stop him from getting upset, and he wrote me saying that she was his girlfriend, and that he came up to ‘patch things up’ with her. Now, I don’t believe everything he told me (ex-boyfriends can probably say whatever they want to make another dude go away), but I was weirded out enough to basically want to walk away. However, I gave it some time, and in a couple weeks he was totally gone and she wanted to get back together and meet with me. Realizing we just met and she didn’t really owe me anything (plus we weren’t exclusive), I decided to give it a shot. Thus, our relationship began.

The second early red flag, which was less pronounced but still very unsettling, occurred during a road trip about 3 months into our relationship when things were still very passionate between us. We went to a beer festival with some friends of mine, and I discovered that - at some point during the day - she gave a guy her number. Of course nothing happened, but I found out later on that this guy did text her that night and ask her to come to his condo. She didn’t, of course, because she was with me in the hotel room, but the act of giving her number seemed very suspicious. I don’t believe she had deceitful intentions, but it struck me as odd to do that while on a trip with your BF, even if she had innocent intentions.

Intimacy Slowed Down

Less of a red-flag perhaps, our intimacy slowed down and still is rather stagnant at least in the sexual/affectionate form. It began about 5 months into our relationship when I noticed she said ‘no’ to sex more often, and where she used to share the initiation of intimacy with me soon became totally my responsibility. Other things slowed down, too, and admittedly instead of manning up and standing my ground, I pouted like a bitch. Eventually, we talked things over and I understood her reasoning more, but for a long time it caused me a lot of pain and feelings of inadequacy. I think, from this, I ‘turned her off’ because I made her feel guilty about turning me down. We’ve made considerable progress there, but it was another thing that caught my attention.

She Betrayed Me

Every relationship has its ups-and-downs, and during one of our ‘downs’ (about 8 months together), she went on a vacation with 3 girlfriends to Mexico. I stayed at her apartment and took care of her (‘our’) dog. When she returned, I came over and spent some time with her. Shortly after we started talking, she told me that she made out with a stranger when she was drunk one night at a club. I was heart-broken, and she was actually in tears telling me. I don’t know if it was tears of guilt or if it was being sorry for what she did, but she seemed to genuinely regret it.

I was 95% ready to walk away at this point. She knew this would hurt me, and in a moment of drunkenness she betrays my trust. Ultimately, I chose to try and forgive her, but I’ll admit my trust has never completely returned (I don’t think). However, I told myself that I would stay and see how/if my wounds would heal. They did get better, but like I said: I don’t think it ever returned to 100%.

Caught In Lies, At Least Partly

Between the betrayal on vacation on now, things had continued pretty well in many ways. We fight like most couples from time to time, but I’ve made strides in improving my sense of self-worth and I can see it reflected in how she treats me. I still get tested, teased, etc, but she has begun warming up to be again as I have matured and taken steps to become more confident and ‘alpha’. I control myself better now, I keep my cool, and it’s been working. Self-help books have really put some things into perspective.

But something else is wrong…

After several months of ‘peace’, where things felt like they were going well, I discovered something in November (2014, a couple months ago). While attempting to leave her a ‘love note’ on her iPad, I came across (without ‘snooping’) a document that appeared to be a draft of an online dating profile. In essence, it looked like she was brainstorming things she’d want to add to her current/past profiles. I confronted her about it, and asked flat out, “I was attempting to leave you a note, and there was another document already open that was clearly an edited dating profile; a new one. Are you looking to date other men?” She told me, flat-out, ‘NO, I am not. I was trying to clean up my documents on my iPad, and I spent a bunch of time last year before meeting you trying to brainstorm profile ideas. I didn’t want to lose all that just in case sometime in the future I need to make another one, so I was copy-pasting things I might want to keep just in case’.

While this reason seemed bogus to me, I suppose there is a very small chance that is true. Plus, knowing her, the idea of cheating in such a way – actively trying to defy me and date other men – would cause her so much stress that I highly date she’d do that. She’s already so bogged down with work, her dog, money problems, that the added stress of an affair I think would be too much.

But she said something else during that confrontation that caught my attention. She commented, “By the way, I’m sure if you look around plenty of stuff can look dishonest out of context. I mean, I still go on OKCupid when my best friend dates new guys to check them out, but it’s not like I’m looking to date anyone. I could never pursue other people when I’m still with you.”

For some reason that statement, coupled with the coinciding discovery of that edited profile, struck a nerve with me: WHY would your friend, an adult in her late 20’s, need you to screen guys for her? So, in an act of total disrespect, I managed to guess her login info and read the messages she was getting on that site. Sure enough, she had been going on there, and while she wasn’t really responding very actively to the majority of the messages, she did respond to a few. In fact, in a couple cases, she exchanged numbers with guys and agreed to go to Happy Hour.

Granted, nowhere in those responses did she say, “I am single”, “Let’s go on a date”, or anything explicitly indicative of an intent to cheat, but the implication is obvious: this site is primarily used at a dating site, and my GF hadn’t updated her status (she was still ‘single’), and it also stated she was looking for “New Friends, Long Term Dating, and Short Term Dating”.

Clearly, it was a lie to say she was ‘only going on there to screen guys for her friend’. Plus, her friend is now exclusive a guy she met from there, so there’s no need for her to ‘screen’ anyone anymore. Even if she hasn’t cheated or even met up with any of them, her statement was false.

Because of her lie, I dug a little deeper and started exploring other free online sites to see if I could find a profile from her; I found one. There was another site on which she joined, again in November, two ‘singles’ clubs on a community forum. It didn’t look like she was actively using them/participating, but it set her join date as only 2-3 months ago while we were clearly still together. So, even IF she was just on OKCupid to screen guys, even IF that edited profile with her saving stuff for the future, how can she explain joining singles clubs? Clearly it’s not for a friend… so WHY? I have not yet confronted her about this.

Ex-Boyfriends as Friends

Finally, almost all of her male friends are ex-boyfriends. This in and of itself does not bother me at all. However, what does bother me is that all of her ex-boyfriends who are now friends act inappropriately in my opinion. I’ve overheard conversations between them wherein her ex’s, knowing full-well she’s in a relationship, suggest they make out, come over to have sex, etc. Granted, it could all be in jest, but just knowing how guys work I question her motivation for maintaining friendships with the type of men who would actively try to get a women to cheat on her SO (me). In all cases she turns them down.

.....That is my story.

What I am struggling with is how her words and actions around me now conflict completely with the red-flags I mentioned above. For instance, on Saturday night after a double-date, I needed to go home to get some much needed rest. We spent hours in her apartment talking, drinking while, cuddling, and she was very affectionate and ‘loving’ to me. In fact, when I got up to leave, she looked me dead in the eye and said, “I’m going to miss you so much, even though I’ll see you in a couple days”. When I left, she hugged me for about 10 seconds, pulled me in vigorously to make out, told me she ‘loved me’ and how ‘lucky she felt to have me in her life and part of her ‘family’’, and looked back when I was driving away.

With all the improvements I’ve been making, she seems so happy when I’m around her. We have so much fun on double-dates, dinners out, even just staying in and cooking a meal together. But at the same time, there’s the dating profile I found, giving her number to other guys, and the whole joining of singles clubs online. In the best case scenario, she’s telling the truth about the profile on her iPad, the OKCupid phone number exchanges are innocent attempts to just make new friends, and the dating sites are just a cry to attention (or something). But it’s so far-fetched… so suggestive of intent to betray again.

At the same time, she seems SO clearly into me right now. I am utterly vexed here and I don’t know what to do.

If I confront her about the messages, I’ll have to admit I snooped into her account. If I bring up the singles clubs, again I’m going to look creepy. However, there is – however small – a chance that she isn’t doing anything ‘wrong’. But my trust is really being stretched here.

If you were me, what would you do?

[smackie9]

Dump her ass and start fresh with someone new.

[dontaskme]

Dump her slutty ass and get yourself checked for STD's.

I don't understand why after all the red flags, you're still second guessing yourself. No alpha male would ever tolerate such a skanky behavior.

[lissa]

Omg there is zero chance that all of this is innocent! Zero. Dump her.

[SnackAttack]

Dump her slutty ass and get yourself checked for STD's.

I don't understand why after all the red flags, you're still second guessing yourself. No alpha male would ever tolerate such a skanky behavior.

Lol, I don't have STD's ;o)

I'm second guessing because, like I said, every time I bring up the subject she tells me that she is NOT doing that. And also like I said, the way she's been acting AROUND me has been awesome. We made plans for her birthday in a month, we spent christmas together, we know eachother's families, her friends know me, we spend tons of time together...

It's the fact that her actions contradict, in my opinion, what she says and how she acts. But I don't understand the logic. There is no WAY she'd be able to have an actual relationship with me in the picture, we're around eachother too much...

Omg there is zero chance that all of this is innocent! Zero. Dump her.

Zero!?

[CrasherRob8]

Why would she be active in an online dating website and exchanging numbers with guys and agreeing to going to Happy Hour with them? How is that not cheating? Their intentions are to date her, otherwise they wouldn't be on the site right? If it's just them two going, isn't that a date and therefore you two are not exclusive? Don't wait until she has sex with the guys, leave now

[TheEvilJester]

Should you stay or should you go now?
Should you stay or should you go now?
If you go there will be trouble....
And if you stay it will be double.

Oh, man! I'm SO glad other people already gave you some advice. I'd feel so bad responding with a joke if I was the first to respond. LOL! But that was just too perfect to pass up. :-P

As it is, the paraphrased song lyrics might be good advice for you. Sounds like you may be better off without her. But, that could just be my thoughts. That does have to be your decision.

[SnackAttack]

Why would she be active in an online dating website and exchanging numbers with guys and agreeing to going to Happy Hour with them? How is that not cheating? Their intentions are to date her, otherwise they wouldn't be on the site right? If it's just them two going, isn't that a date and therefore you two are not exclusive? Don't wait until she has sex with the guys, leave now

Obviously the 99.9% most likely situation is that it's all bullcrap and she is at the least open to the idea of meeting new people, which yes I consider cheating. However, I am wondering if it makes more sense to confront her about the singles clubs and the messages (number exchanges) or just walk away? My brain, unfortunately, always wonders about the .1%. Like I said, also, when we're together it's been awesome... we have a pretty big life as a couple and we spend a lot of time together. I'm prepared to walk away with I have to, but I want to make sure I'm making the right decision.

I was thinking more something like presenting everything I know, and at least getting the facts. I do not like unsettled baggage.

Should you stay or should you go now?
Should you stay or should you go now?
If you go there will be trouble....
And if you stay it will be double.

Oh, man! I'm SO glad other people already gave you some advice. I'd feel so bad responding with a joke if I was the first to respond. LOL! But that was just too perfect to pass up. :-P

As it is, the paraphrased song lyrics might be good advice for you. Sounds like you may be better off without her. But, that could just be my thoughts. That does have to be your decision.

hah! Yeah I probably had that coming.

Anyway, I think I'm going to tell her I know about the singles club things, and tell her that I'm not interested in being in a relationship wherein I am lied to or wherein my partner seeks other romantic male attention, no matter how 'casual' it might be. Then see how she responds to that...

Does that sound reasonable?

I want to reiterate that perhaps the most confusing and troubling portion of this is the mixed impressions. On the one hand you have her changing her behavior, being way more loving and open emotionally to me (like I said, calling me part of her family, missing me, etc), and OPENLY denying looking for other men, but on the other you have all the evidence. I am almost positive she will have some excuse:

- Sure I gave numbers to guys but I never intended to DATE them. If that's what they're interested in it's not happening...
- Yeah I added my name to singles clubs but it's not like i'm using them or anything. It's not cheating it join a list... i'm not seeing anyone else

That's kind of what I expect... and sure, it could be true, but i'm not sure if I care. The point is, she is giving me reasons to doubt her, and it's consuming my mind and ruining my focus on life.

So I was thinking something like:

"I know you've been joining singles clubs. Whatever your reason is, I want to make it clear that I am not interested in a relationship without exclusivity. I'm sure you already know that, but given what I've seen other the last month - the profile on your tablet, the dating site, and now these singles groups - you don't seem to respect it. This relationship is either going to be you and me, or I walk away."

And just see what happens...

[TheEvilJester]

It is up to you, but I personally do not see how it can be okay by any stretch of the imagination to be in a supposedly committed relationship with you, and yet be on dating sites, in "singles clubs", and especially not giving guys her phone number. Frankly, to me that would be flat out unacceptable. My personal recommendation would be to move on at this point. I mean, maybe it is just me, but that just seems unbelievably disrespectful. I cannot even fathom how anybody would think this is acceptable behavior when they are in a relationship.

She should think of it from the reverse position. How would she feel if you were on dating sites, or giving your phone number to other women? Heck, all of that would even be okay if you were fine with having an "open relationship." I may personally not agree with that sort of thing, but it works for some people, so who am I to judge? But, that is not what you want. Her doing this behind your back is, in my personal view, unforgivable. It's one thing if she just had some friends who were guys. That can be a delicate situation, but it is still different as long as appropriate boundaries are respected on all ends. But, you don't go on dating sites to meet friends and you don't join singles clubs just for the activities. Those clubs are meant for fun activities to allow single people to meet other single people, not just for any jerk to show up. Furthermore, giving a guy her phone number implies she wants him to use it. Sure, it isn't like it is ever a sure thing, but it at least implies some intention that she is okay with him calling her.

Good luck to you. If you want to try to make it work, then I wish you the best of luck and hope it works well for you. Otherwise, if you feel it is better to move on, then I hope you find somebody who will treat you with the respect you deserve.

[SnackAttack]

The funny thing is, I honestly don't think she'd care if I did these things. She's definitely more 'easy going' than I am, if you could call it that. However, in contrast to how she was around me when we first met and the kind of 'deep' things she'd say, now it's very different. Except, of course, for the rare times where she's feeling affectionate and she tells me things such as being part of her 'family', 'missing me {so much}', etc, etc...

[TheEvilJester]

The "rare times where she's feeling affectionate?" Does that really sound like a phrase you want to use for your significant other? Do you really want somebody who, when it comes to them showing you affection, you can describe it as being rare? That is almost enough of a red flag in and of itself if you ask me.

Also, to be honest, I'd also consider it kind of a red flag if she truly wouldn't care if it were you doing those things instead of her. That's not "easy going," in my view. More so, that's simply not actually giving a crap about your supposed significant other, so you truly don't care what they do. I mean, even the most trusting and secure people in the world would have certain boundaries and expectations while in a relationship, and would be rightfully upset if they were crossed. If it is actually true that she wouldn't care, personally I would take that to mean she doesn't actually care about me. That, to me, sounds like she considers you expendable, like you mean very little to her at all.

Again, maybe that's just my interpretation. I'm not part of the situation, so I can't judge from actually being involved. I can only tell you how I would feel given the same situation you describe.

[woody]

Dear O.P

So you've got yourself a 'good time girl' who also displays qualities that are, how can I say this?, rather "Flakey"... But I bet she looks really good in a skirt so to speak. Why else would you drag things on with her.

Red Flags everyone here man. She gave her ex your number right off the get go? (coo coo), cheating, lying, using. Mattress time must have been mind blowing for you to tolerate as long as you have. That and/or your a big hearted old school romantic caught in a love web. I'd say a bit of both. But now your with someone who plays you, lies, can't even own up to it and she's a flake. So why, pray tell are you still dealing with her? Mister, where is your self respect? She sounds like a player and a predator who's also a compulsive lying flake, immature and slightly daft which can be dangerous for you.
Continue this treatment and you will one day find yourself wondering where you went. Stand up for yourself now and avoid the drama.
At the very least, you must prove to her that your no longer willing to be her back boy

You will find a woman who appreciates all you have to offer and receive. She will be a good woman but she cannot get through to you with this other one around. You sound like a nice fella, a good guy. Please don't waste any more time with someone who treats you poorly
self respect man. get more and good luck

[SnackAttack]

The "rare times where she's feeling affectionate?" Does that really sound like a phrase you want to use for your significant other? Do you really want somebody who, when it comes to them showing you affection, you can describe it as being rare? That is almost enough of a red flag in and of itself if you ask me.

Also, to be honest, I'd also consider it kind of a red flag if she truly wouldn't care if it were you doing those things instead of her. That's not "easy going," in my view. More so, that's simply not actually giving a crap about your supposed significant other, so you truly don't care what they do. I mean, even the most trusting and secure people in the world would have certain boundaries and expectations while in a relationship, and would be rightfully upset if they were crossed. If it is actually true that she wouldn't care, personally I would take that to mean she doesn't actually care about me. That, to me, sounds like she considers you expendable, like you mean very little to her at all.

Again, maybe that's just my interpretation. I'm not part of the situation, so I can't judge from actually being involved. I can only tell you how I would feel given the same situation you describe.

Perhaps 'wouldnt care' is pushing it. I think what I mean is that she wouldn't be as crushed as I was. When she told me about kissing the dude on vacation when she was drunk and partying, I was basically ready to burst into tears, because despite any differences that have surfaced in our 1.5years together, I still had an image of her and our relationship that involved trust and compassion. Although more crass than I, I never in a million years imagined she would do that. I told her that very same thing, and she agreed she never would have thought she'd ever do that, especially to me. She's also so straight-faced and seemingly honest when she talked, not flinching at the confrontation, etc, that it makes it so believable if she denies things.

My point is: she makes it appear that, if she didn't love, care about, or want to be with me, she'd drop me. She's also said point-blank that she is NOT exploring options, that she still does had desire for me, etc, just that it's not in her nature to go there on here own; that it takes some persuading from someone else (me).

If I kissed someone else or cheated, she'd be angry, but she'd probably hear me out and consider staying.

She's very big on 'intent' when it comes to these kinds of things ,and I think what she thinks is that I should trust her word regardless of how it seems, and trust that if something seems off I'll trust her good intentions or straight-up ask if im worried.

Basically ALL of the red-flags are just that: flags. If what she's told me is true, then I would have no issues with staying. The problem is that everything is SO suggestive, but she's SO convincing when it comes to justifying or explaining them.

"Why did you kiss someone, do you want someone else or want to break up"? .. Her: "No, if anything this stupid drunk mistake (that meant nothing) only made me realize more how much I want you"

"Why are you editing a dating profile?"... Her: "I'm saving is JUST IN CASE for the future. Of course i'm not looking for other guys"

So again, everything I see seems SO suggestive, but she always has a reason or justification for it. All those reasons are POSSIBLE, but seem so unlikely... however, her personality just doesn't seem like the type that would make cheating in THIS way very likely. I'm just at a loss. I think it's hard for me to trust because when it comes to interactions with the opposite sex I make sure I draw a line... she seems to be the type who is happy to flirt, hang out, make dates, etc, as long as in her mind she isn't betraying me... kind of an 'internal' good-intent with what she does, and I should just trust it.

Dear O.P

So you've got yourself a 'good time girl' who also displays qualities that are, how can I say this?, rather "Flakey"... But I bet she looks really good in a skirt so to speak. Why else would you drag things on with her.

Red Flags everyone here man. She gave her ex your number right off the get go? (coo coo), cheating, lying, using. Mattress time must have been mind blowing for you to tolerate as long as you have. That and/or your a big hearted old school romantic caught in a love web. I'd say a bit of both. But now your with someone who plays you, lies, can't even own up to it and she's a flake. So why, pray tell are you still dealing with her? Mister, where is your self respect? She sounds like a player and a predator who's also a compulsive lying flake, immature and slightly daft which can be dangerous for you.
Continue this treatment and you will one day find yourself wondering where you went. Stand up for yourself now and avoid the drama.
At the very least, you must prove to her that your no longer willing to be her back boy

You will find a woman who appreciates all you have to offer and receive. She will be a good woman but she cannot get through to you with this other one around. You sound like a nice fella, a good guy. Please don't waste any more time with someone who treats you poorly
self respect man. get more and good luck

The ex's number thing aside, you are correct that my staying is a combination of things.

In a way I do cling to the memory of how she 'was' vs relying on what I see now. Yes, we had an INSANE few months.. i'm talking mind-blowing. But I am also what you might consider that 'nice guy'. I give people the benefit of perhaps too many doubts (if that makes sense). I try to believe that she is honorable, honest, and trust worthy no matter how it seems on the outside. When she tells me she wants to be with me, I believe it.

Additionally, I do wonder about the possibility of her telling the complete truth. What if she was telling the truth about the guy on vacation? What if that really was just a fluke, and she regrets it as much as she says? What if it'll never happen again?

What if the profile on her tablet really WAS nothing to worry about, and the numbers she gave were just to hang as friends?

What if adding herself to those dating sites has some excuse, too? Who knows?

The reason I haven't walked, I guess, is that I want answers. Here I have this girl who, as far as I know, is honest. Yes, she never told me about exchanging numbers with people, but if her intention was never to date those guys (despite giving them false hope), is it technically wrong? In my opinion maybe it is, in fact it IS, but in her mind what if she's just making friends? Who's to say she ever even met them?

If all the best case scenarios are true and she really is with me because she wants to be, then I wouldn't be so broken up. As far as the affection is concerned, she's always been a self-described aloof girl, not very affection at all. That is why, when we first got together, she was shocked when she opened up so much and was so expressive and emotionally close. In time, that died down, and it seems like she's retreated to her old ways.

To sum it up: i want answers. I want to know the truth. I want to know why things have changed, why I feel so much distance, and if it'll ever come back. I'm a super self-aware person, and these questions will haunt me indefinitely if I don't resolve them. And I haven't..

[dontaskme]

Words of wisdom for you, your GF is definitely a professional liar and a faker, you can put her through a lie detector test and I can bet you anything that she will pass the test, lmao!

[SnackAttack]

Words of wisdom for you, your GF is definitely a professional liar and a faker, you can put her through a lie detector test and I can bet you anything that she will pass the test, lmao!

But to what end? What's the point? I know it shouldn't make a difference, but I cannot for the life of me wrap my head around it... It's like as though she's codependent, if anything she's very independent and capable of managing her life on her own.