Boyfriend is making me choose: Him or my best friend.

[Bonnielovescats]

Backstory: I have known my best friend (who is a woman - 28 yrs old) for about a decade (We have been best friends for about half of that time). She is a warm person with a kind heart, who has been a true friend to me throughout the majority of my time knowing her. She has always been there for me after every break up, stood by me when I needed her support and displayed true loyalty. On the flip side, she has many, many issues.. But being the nonjudgmental person I am who looks for the good in people, I excuse many of the choices she makes because that's what I've always felt that true friends do. Her poor choices: She has been job hopping/jobless (mostly jobless) for the past 2-3 years. She can't seem to get herself together as much as she tries to- Attempts to get up, falls again, repeat. I believe it has been due to bad parenting (she doesn't have "bad" parents- but I believe they did not give all 4 of their children the attention they needed), a low self esteem/lack of self confidence, not realizing her potential/being afraid of challenges and things she was unfamiliar with. She has probably quit around 6-8 jobs in the past year to a year and a half. Or, she gets hired, but makes an excuse to back out. Her family has some mental illness as well- So I take that into consideration. But the real issue is.. She has a 4 year old daughter. She is a single parent who still lives under her parent's roof. She often uses time that could be used wisely to spend with multiple guys (some of which she sleeps with- And brings her daughter around most of them). She is trying to get over her ex (who she broke up with) and realized she wants him back. She is a good mom.. She just does not realize that some of the decisions she makes puts her child in bad situations. She has even smoked weed occasionally (not recently- as far as I know) and I could not understand why someone would do that when attempting to look for a job that could possibly drug test. Despite all of the above, she does have a very good heart but obviously not a very good head on her shoulders...

Over time, we've grown apart a bit because it's been difficult for me to continue to support someone who consistently makes the same mistakes, never seems to learn from them and who involves a child in many of them. I hang out with her about once or twice a month and we text just about every day. It is not the same because I've begun to lose respect for her - Yet, I still hold on because she is still a good friend.

Now.. My boyfriend and I have been together for 2.5 years now. They did not like each other much from the beginning. After a while, she became resentful that I spent the majority of my free time with him (keep in mind that I was in school, had a job, family and things I needed to get done). Eventually, she got fed up and we stopped talking for 6 months. She made unnecessary comments and told me I never made time for her - Which I responded with "That's because you haven't been the kind of person I go out of my way to make time for." After 6 months, she got drunk one night and texted me vile things - My boyfriend was next to me when this happened, took my phone from me and texted her back with vile comments. Ever since then, hatred between them was present. He does not believe she is a true friend to say what she had said to me ("I hope you die") and couldn't help but to stick up for me. We made up and became friends again. Other reasons why he does not like her: She constantly tells me I should leave him/talks badly about him (not all the time) and he's caught onto it. Furthermore, about a year ago I went to her friend's house for a board game night and this friend was a guy who happened to find me attractive. He firmly believes she brought me there with the intent to disrespect him - By trying to get me away from him and go for someone else.

She has been begging me to go out on Friday night in celebration of her birthday - Tons of people are going (men and women) and it looks like they will be going to hookah bars (most likely regular bars too) and to play billiards. My boyfriend is tired of her disrespect (he says she knows he wouldn't approve of me going but asks me anyway). He doesn't believe women in relationships have any place going clubbing or bar hopping, which I completely understand.

So- He gave me the ultimatum today after that invitation. It's either him or her. He can't be with someone whose best friend has screwed up time after time, has low morals, puts their child in harm's way occasionally, hates him and disrespects him. I told him that I have the ability to have someone in my life without it affecting the way I live mine - My choices have been opposite of hers, I have morals, make better decisions and have more self respect. I've tried expressing that although she and I aren't on the same path in life, I can have someone in my life (although not as closely anymore) if they have a good heart and have been a true friend. He disagrees and lives by the "you are who you surround yourself with" mentality.

Is he wrong to give me this ultimatum? Is this controlling? Or is it him trying to open up my eyes to see that moving on from people who don't have similar goals and morals as me is for the best? He is someone I could see myself spending my life with and I love him deeply. I am torn and lost. I feel no matter what I do, I will feel empty.

[Nicolelong]

I learned this one the hard way about a decade ago. I was with a guy that became more and more controlling with me. One of his big issues of contention was my own best friend. She had a very bad reputation, but was (and is) one of the kindest, most loving people I've ever known. He would constantly put her down, call her names, and began to make similar comments to me- like "She is such a s**t that people will think you are too if you hang out with her" "how can you be friends with someone so dirty?" etc. You get the picture.

Like your friend, she did not make good decisions in life, she had multiple multiple partners, made questionable choices with drugs, etc. They too started to hate each other. Her for feeling like he was taking me away from her, him for judging her and making me feel bad about hanging out with her and taking away from his time. It started to wear on our friendship and eventually we just kinda stopped calling each other. He started to convince me that I was better off without someone like her "weighing me down" with her issues, and I foolishly went along with it. I should have fought to keep the friendship, and looking back I wish badly that I had enough sense to realize that I should not have caved to his pressure. Instead, I let the friendship slip away, chalking it up to just being easier for the relationship to let her go. She really was a bad influence. Wasn't she? That was the question.

Once you start allowing your partner to pick and choose who they think is unsuitable in your life, it is a slippery slope. For myself the list of unsuitable people gradually grew and grew. First it was my best friend, then other friends, then particular coworkers, then finally my own family, which is when I finally woke up and realized who should have been the one to go all along- HIM. It is one of my biggest regrets that I let my best girlfriend slip away for almost 5 years of my life. She was the one, despite her "low morals", that was truly there for me, and had my back. If I could do it all over, I would have dropped him like a hot potato as soon as he started pressuring me to get rid of her. I apologized to her profusely, and we became friends again, but I'll tell you- it's never been the same. She feels like I abandoned her for him, and in essence, she's right. I have NEVER found as loyal a friend as she was. All for some control freak guy.

I learned that having one true friend is worth 100 boyfriends. Honestly. If you want a boyfriend, you can find one. Easy. If you want a best friend, one that is always there for you despite their(and your) flaws, it's like looking for a needle in a haystack. Best friends are much harder to come by than guys. Treasure your girlfriends.

Your friend's lifestyle is NONE of your boyfriend's concern. You don't pick friends based on their life choices and mistakes, you pick them based on how they treat you and who they are. Friends are supposed to be there to support each other and help each other through life's ups and downs, not judge each other and expect perfection from one another. Who cares if she has "low morals" if she has been a true friend to you for so many years? So what if she struggles to keep a job and smokes pot occasionally??? How does that disqualify all of the times you admit she was loyal and true to you? It doesn't. I feel like you are looking for ways to justify your boyfriend's shitty treatment of her. She is a threat to him and he wants her gone.

I think you need to take a hard look at your relationship and what he is asking of you. How does he have a right to tell you who you can and can't be friends with, especially with people who have known you for years longer than he has? Tbh, he DOES sounds controlling. There's nothing wrong with "taken" women going out bar hopping once in a while to celebrate a friend's birthday. Nothing. Don't you feel insulted that he doesn't think that you can handle a girls night out? To the point where he threatens to end the relationship? I would.

Your boyfriend needs to realize that she was here first, and she has stood the test of time. I don't agree with the comments she made, but alcohol does make us say things we regret (we've alllll been there) and your boyfriend was on the other end goading her on.

I would advise you that the chances of her outlasting him in your life are pretty good, and that good friends are hard to find. Don't let a guy come in between a decade long friendship.

[Wakeup]

I don't like his controlling behaviour and attitude however; Me personally? I'd have dumped her ass after she told me "I hope you die" and certainly as she continued to disrespect and bad mouth my boyfriend.

It would be different if she was bad mouthing him because he abused you (physically or emotionally) but that's not the case.

She's jealous of your ability to get and maintain a man.
She's an asshole for dragging her fk buddies into her daughter's life.

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BTW: If you cut her out of your life, tell Mr. Controlling that you're doing it because she's dragging you down and you're sick of her choices. I'd not give him the satisfaction of him even having an inkling that his ultimatum held any weight in my decision.

[Nicolelong]

She has been begging me to go out on Friday night in celebration of her birthday - Tons of people are going (men and women) and it looks like they will be going to hookah bars (most likely regular bars too) and to play billiards. My boyfriend is tired of her disrespect (he says she knows he wouldn't approve of me going but asks me anyway). He doesn't believe women in relationships have any place going clubbing or bar hopping, which I completely understand.

This as well^^^^ "He says she knows he wouldn't approve of me going but asks me anyway".....Really? Is he your Dad? You need his "approval" for going out to a girlfriend's birthday party? And it was disrespectful for her to ask her own best friend to attend her birthday celebration because he wouldn't like it? Let that sink in....I'd be telling you to leave if I was your best friend too.

[Wakeup]

Okay; lets get some things clarified at this point.

OP: How is your relationship with this guy on other aspects besides with regards to your issued and dysfunctional friend?

Does he try to control you in other ways? Is he physically or emotionally abusive? Does he treat you well and with respect and showing you in actions that he values you? If he does anything abusive towards you in other ways besides his want of you to give up on your issued friend, then perhaps you ought to rethink things with regards to him. If you were to break up with him though, I wouldn't be telling you to do it over his issues with your friend. She needs to be relegated to a "past" friend in my estimation anyway. She's bad news in more ways then one and you and she, by all accounts, have very different personal boundaries and are incompatible in general.

Do you actually WANT to go to this birthday party? If you do, are you aware of what will likely end up going on when she gets hammered?

[dontaskme]

A now ex of mine once asked me to cut off my ties with my male best friend because he was jealous of my friendship with him. Mind you, I've known my best friend since we were kids plus he's happily married. I'm glad I didn't listen to him cause now he's an ex and my best friend is still my best friend.

Your girlfriend's life choices have nothing to do with your friendship. She's not trying to influence you into making poor decisions and if you are as secure with yourself as you claim to be, then you shouldn't be swayed by your boyfriend's inability to trust you and threat to dump you if you decide to keep your friendship. He is the weak one for not being able to have confidence in you. Best friends are a rarity and treasure to keep and shouldn't be taken for granted. Chances are, at your age, it will be tougher to find another one like her.

[TheEvilJester]

Absolutely no offense intended, Nicole, but I sort of disagree with you. Not often that happens since I've almost always agreed with you. Unless I am misunderstanding Bonnie's story (which could very well be possible) I don't exactly think your experience is as comparable as you think. Granted, I agree that he should NOT be giving her an "ultimatum." Doing that whole "it's this person or me" thing is just ridiculous and immature. Even if you do win in that equation, more often than not you lose as well because it causes hurt feelings, resentment, and hinders trust.

All that said, though, Bonnie's story sounds a bit different. This "friend" has been abusively disrespectful both directly to Bonnielovescats herself, and to her boyfriend as well.

Bonnie, by your own admission, this girl has apparently constantly tried to get you away from your boyfriend or even used thinly veiled attempts to show you other "options," that may be out there. She is also constantly bad-mouthing him. That is extremely disrespectful to both you AND your boyfriend. Have you ever told this friend of yours that her disrespectful words and actions toward your boyfriend need to stop?

I can tell you, if I were the boyfriend in this situation, I may feel very disrespected by the fact that my girlfriend chose to continue to be friends with somebody who would be so disrespectful to me. That, in a way, almost makes it like you are already choosing the friend over the boyfriend. I know if I had a girlfriend, and had a friend who was acting like that toward her, that friend would be told in no uncertain terms to KNOCK IT OFF and if he/she continued being disrespectful, they'd be out of my life in a heartbeat.

To me, it sounds like it has a lot less to do with her lifestyle and such then it does with her disrespectful treatment of both you and him. If she was a complete screw up in all the ways you described, BUT was nothing but sweet and respectful to both you and him.... Then I'd DEFINITELY say that he should not be telling you who to be friends with or not.... that is, of course, unless her drama starts negatively effecting you and/or him. That, too, would be different. Sometimes, no matter how much you may want to be there for somebody, if they can't/won't help themselves, and their crap starts to drag you down with them, you need to worry about your own self.

I would agree with Wakeup on the important distinctions. For example, how is your relationship with your boyfriend otherwise? I do agree that if this is just one of many signs of him being controlling, then perhaps you should honestly consider leaving both him and this "friend" behind. However, if he is otherwise a great guy and an amazing boyfriend..... wouldn't that cause you to wonder if such an otherwise good guy could be so upset about something that there must be a good reason? If he's otherwise a great boyfriend, doesn't he at least deserve the benefit of the doubt that maybe he could have a point?

Don't get me wrong, Bonnie. I am NOT trying to dismiss your feelings or tell you that you are wrong. Not at all. I 100% understand why you feel upset that your boyfriend would ask this, and you do have a right to feel like that isn't his right to ask you to do something like that. All the same, though, consider how you'd feel if the roles were reversed. Again, if this is just yet another thing in a long history of your boyfriend trying to control you, then maybe the time is now to start reconsidering whether he deserves to be your boyfriend at all. On the other hand, if he is otherwise a great guy and a great boyfriend, he certainly doesn't deserve the disrespect this friend shows for him (or you, for that matter) and doesn't deserve to be made to feel like you are just allowing it. Again, I realize that isn't your intention, but I imagine that could be how he feels.

P.S. Cats ARE rather awesome.

[Wakeup]

^^^ Yes indeed.

In a situation as described by the OP, I don't think people should be projecting their own experiences into their opinions.

This girl has bad mouthed her boyfriend, has told her to die, has caused her to be upset over her petty, jealous bullshit and has tried to drive a wedge between you and your boyfriend as a habit. She is trying to break the two of you up by all accounts and I suspect that if you do break up with him then she will do the same thing with anyone you happen to become seriously involved with. In fact, I'll even bet $100 that when she gets some fool stupid enough to put up with her dysfunction, she'll not need you anymore and you'll be left alone to fend for yourself.

So what is it, Op? Is he a good boyfriend in general and only this so called "controlling" over your twatty friend or is he a controlling ass in general and this is just another one of his attempts to isolate you?

[Lilly328]

May I ask, for your previous relationship, how was she with your ex's? Did she get along with them or did she do the same put down? And like everyone else, besides your disfuntional friend, does he try to controll you in other things?

[Nicolelong]

Doesn't everyone project their own experiences into their opinions? Personal experience creates opinions..... Yes, I'm biased, but isn't everyone?

We all have our own experiences and learning lessons to share with OP's, that's what they're asking for, and it's a shitty feeling to feel attacked and like my opinion is somehow invalid because it rings true with my own life experience....

[SuperHappyTime1]

Is he wrong to give me this ultimatum? Is this controlling? Or is it him trying to open up my eyes to see that moving on from people who don't have similar goals and morals as me is for the best? He is someone I could see myself spending my life with and I love him deeply. I am torn and lost. I feel no matter what I do, I will feel empty.

To each person's experience their own. I haven't read any of the other responses first and I'll give my own to those after I read them.

Is he wrong? Yes
Is it controlling? Maybe. He has his own opinion in your relationship... right?
Is he opening your eyes to how terrible your friend is? Frick Yea

Your friend sounds like a horrible person. Circumstances mean a lot, but good people overcome them, not use them as a reason to claim victim status. And your opinion of your friend doesn't seem to sound like a good person.
Your boyfriend sounds like a good person. If the big Con is that he doesn't like your poor friend, that should be placed in the Pro category in an instant.

Dump your friend, keep the man. He might knows what's best for the both of you.

[Wakeup]

Doesn't everyone project their own experiences into their opinions? Personal experience creates opinions..... Yes, I'm biased, but isn't everyone?

No? Everyone does not project. You're placing your experience into this instead of being unbiased and just giving your opinion based on the facts. You have no idea that he is controlling other then in the instance with the so called friend that has tried from the beginning to get in between this couple. This is not just him trying to isolate her from her good friends but rather him trying to protect her from a fair weather friend who is issued and dysfunctional. A person that told her she hoped she died and has upset her by bad mouthing her boyfriend at every turn for reasons (as far as we can see by what has been revealed) of jealousy and pettiness because she has to take a backseat to a guy that her friend is in love with.

We all have our own experiences and learning lessons to share with OP's, that's what they're asking for, and it's a shitty feeling to feel attacked and like my opinion is somehow invalid because it rings true with my own life experience....

That's too bad. Sorry you feel that way but its the truth of the matter. Until Op comes back in and tells us that her boyfriend has isolated and asked her not to associate with any of her friends, or has been abusive in other ways, then you can't (or at least I don't think its helpful) to give advise based on your situation.

Your life experience is not the same as hers as far as we know at this point. That is where "projection" is taking place. You are giving her advise as if she has a boyfriend like what you had without her even having told us yet if he is general how you paint him.

Anyway, there is always going to be debate. Don't take the fact that people don't agree with you so seriously. The debate itself will help the op to make a decision based on HER facts and how the match up with what we have to say. You may be spot on but until she clarifies, at this point some of us don't agree with your conclusions. No biggy.

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You don't pick friends based on their life choices and mistakes, you pick them based on how they treat you and who they are.

Taking the boyfriend out of the equation Then going by your opinion, she should dump this chick who the Op (in her own words) says she has lost respect for and who treats her poorly by telling her "she hopes she dies."

[TheEvilJester]

Doesn't everyone project their own experiences into their opinions? Personal experience creates opinions..... Yes, I'm biased, but isn't everyone?

We all have our own experiences and learning lessons to share with OP's, that's what they're asking for, and it's a shitty feeling to feel attacked and like my opinion is somehow invalid because it rings true with my own life experience....

Oh, I definitely think we've all done it from time to time. Sometimes a story hits a little too close to home and we find ourselves relating to it too much to the point where we may react as though it is our own story even when maybe it isn't necessarily as comparable as we think. Hell, I've done it myself, Nicole. I, for one, absolutely never meant to make you feel attacked. If I unintentionally did in any way I sincerely apologize, but I had thought I made it very clear I meant no offense, and didn't devalue your opinion, I just respectfully disagreed.

As others have agreed, this particular situation sounds more to me like the boyfriend is merely justifiably upset with this friend. I am NOT saying that justifies his "ultimatum" as I don't think that is the right way to go about it, I am just saying I can understand how he may feel. Going just based on what our cat loving friend has shared with us, it doesn't necessarily sound to me like her boyfriend is controlling. It sounds more to me like this "friend" had been disrespectful to Bonnie, to Bonnie's fella, and to their relationship right off the bat. Why would Mr. Lovescats NOT be upset by that, and furthermore I'm not sure why Bonnie would even allow that. Hell, even removing the boyfriend completely, this "friend" has been abusive and disrespectful to Bonnie and should be left in the dust. It has nothing to do with the friend being unable to handle her own darn life. It is certainly true that somebody's own drama (within reason) shouldn't effect whether or not you are their friend as long as they are otherwise a good friend to you. NOTHING this woman has done, from the details we've heard, makes her sound like a good friend in the slightest.

Frankly, it could be entirely possibly that there are further details Bonnie hadn't bothered to share that would show that her boyfriend has a history of being controlling, of telling her what to do and with whom she can associate. That's why many of us asked for her to clarify whether or not that may be the case. Then, I'd agree that perhaps she needs to either put her foot down, or just flat out tell him to take a hike. It wouldn't change the fact that I would still suggest telling this supposed "friend" to take a hike as well.

In any case, on a semi-related note,

Nicole,

You've always seemed like good peeps and I've enjoyed your contributions here on the boards. I think it sucks you had to suffer through something like what you did with this ex of yours, but I am glad to hear it at least resulted in you becoming even stronger and realizing it was not okay for him to do that. Sometimes, as much as it sucks when you are stuck in a bad situation like that, it is those bad times that make us stronger than ever and give us renewed vigor to TAKE our piece of the proverbial pie.

[basilandthyme]

At face value, I think it's completely reasonable that your boyfriend refuses to accept you having a friend who openly tries to sabotage your relationship. But as others have said, the question is: is your boyfriend deserving of her scorn?

I think you do have to choose. If she's wrong about him, then it's disrespectful to him and your relationship to keep her around. If she's right about him, then leave him.